Harley woes

[CBXRider]

Harleys are still the majority motorcycle on tour. I’ve seen PA and NY plated Harley’s in NW Montana. Goldwings are next and I’d guess that the smaller ‘adventure’ style bikes are soon going to outnumber the Hondas. Some Suzukis go anywhere too. Canada is just up the road.

 

[Bumblebee]

Harleys are still the majority motorcycle on tour. I’ve seen PA and NY plated Harley’s in NW Montana. Goldwings are next and I’d guess that the smaller ‘adventure’ style bikes are soon going to outnumber the Hondas. Some Suzukis go anywhere too. Canada is just up the road.

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Harleys are the dominate motorcycle around here for sure.......most other bikes are adventure touring or metric cruisers....there are few sport bikes here in my area.....

 

[PeregrineKeith]

I have a Harley and after making it my own I like it just fine. I have a Busa and while it took less to make it mine I like it just the same. Lots of people knock HD for their lack of speed and compare to sportbikes or Busas on the other hand HD riders might complain about back pain or uncomfortable riding position but that’s apples to oranges. There are fast Busas and there are even faster Busas.. same as Harley… look at a stock $110k RR and something out of All Americans camp in Miami and you’ll find the same… a fast Harley and an even faster Harley (for less money too) lol.
Harley makes changes to the lineup but its few and far between…. As our own Suzuki does with the 1k. When HD makes a change the older Harley purists snub their noses at the change… crazy to me.
I say all that to say there’s pros and cons on each side. Pick one and stick with it or do what I do and pick both! I wanna go fast I take the Busa or more comfy but still “fast enough” I have a Stage3 RoadGlide for that.
To each their own. I don’t think HD is going anywhere soon, it’s just change that’s all, ups and down just like any other business.
Just my .02

 

[LC4CARL]

I was bummed when they let Buell go.

 

[sixpack577]

I was bummed when they let Buell go.

Hopefully his new venture takes off.
Kaplan Cycles in Connecticut is his first official dealer, with a half-dozen or so more natiinwode.
Dealer support seems to be the main hurdle for now, for everyone that buys one who doesn't live close by.
But, they are some really cool looking bikes, and are expected to live up to the hype.
About 15 years ago Buell was getting podiums in SuperBike, and really progressing...and Harley genious decided they wanted to go another direction.
Most businesses that survive the test of time have managed to adapt to changing environments and demands...but not Hardly-Ableson...they just keep repackaging the same old thing.
Same old HD...Fail.
Lower cc HD's...Fail.
Livewire...Fail.
I know, I know...lets keeping making the same thing! Yeah, that'll work!....or not.
How about adding a Sportbike line-up?
As those late model Buells were really progressing...Nah...the HD Purists wouldn't like that.
Well, once most of those guys are dead; who's gonna buy the same old?
Not many, that's who...and sales reflect it.
But, instead, lets save money, fire a bunch of folks at the Milwaukee plant...and move most of HD's production to Taiwan!
Yeah! That'll work.
Maybe selling their nostalgia in other markets will work for the short run, but there are already alot of defectors to Indian, and rightfully so.
Take the most American motorcycle, it's employee's pride in their jobs and their product...and ship it off overseas.
And oh yeah, the new CEO said a few months ago he wants to go completely electric...lmao...he sounds more like the typical guy sent in to close things down, for good.
Sounds like either he goes, or HD goes.
Oh well, they've done it to themselves.

 

[CBXRider]

And a couple of Buells share the Pro Stock class lead with a Suzuki. Think HarleyInc. is listening?

 

[sixpack577]

And a couple of Buells share the Pro Stock class lead with a Suzuki. Think HarleyInc. is listening?

Nope, not a bit

 

[Bumblebee]

Hopefully his new venture takes off.
Kaplan Cycles in Connecticut is his first official dealer, with a half-dozen or so more natiinwode.
Dealer support seems to be the main hurdle for now, for everyone that buys one who doesn't live close by.
But, they are some really cool looking bikes, and are expected to live up to the hype.
About 15 years ago Buell was getting podiums in SuperBike, and really progressing...and Harley genious decided they wanted to go another direction.
Most businesses that survive the test of time have managed to adapt to changing environments and demands...but not Hardly-Ableson...they just keep repackaging the same old thing.
Same old HD...Fail.
Lower cc HD's...Fail.
Livewire...Fail.
I know, I know...lets keeping making the same thing! Yeah, that'll work!....or not.
How about adding a Sportbike line-up?
As those late model Buells were really progressing...Nah...the HD Purists wouldn't like that.
Well, once most of those guys are dead; who's gonna buy the same old?
Not many, that's who...and sales reflect it.
But, instead, lets save money, fire a bunch of folks at the Milwaukee plant...and move most of HD's production to Taiwan!
Yeah! That'll work.
Maybe selling their nostalgia in other markets will work for the short run, but there are already alot of defectors to Indian, and rightfully so.
Take the most American motorcycle, it's employee's pride in their jobs and their product...and ship it off overseas.
And oh yeah, the new CEO said a few months ago he wants to go completely electric...lmao...he sounds more like the typical guy sent in to close things down, for good.
Sounds like either he goes, or HD goes.
Oh well, they've done it to themselves.

I've watched documentaries where people never thought Indian would close up shop as it was very competitive with HD in the day.....

When we look back, there were a lot of motorcycle companies that have come and gone over the years......and good, solid ones at that.....Norton, BSA, AJS, Vincent, Henderson, etc, etc.....

 

[Zerks]

People who own Harleys sure do love them

While I can't argue that point I will say this. Take a comparable motorcycle in the Harley line up to a 1400 Concours or several offering from BMW, Honda and Yamaha and if they can let go of the bias they likely have... its no contest in terms of performance vs cost. In the 80s and one time in the 90s I worked in sales at Japanese only motorcycle shops.

My deepest exposure to the technical side of motorcycles was with Honda. It left me with one dominating thought even though I never really looked beyond Honda for more engineering expertise in other brands. So, my bias is real on this subject. My dominant thought was in the 80s nd 90s was... People have no idea how advanced the engineering is at Honda.

Harley has relied on image popularity and made in America brand for decades... whatever works, works... however the tech race is just about over for Harley. Riders can ride those under performing over priced pigs as long as it makes them happy... it's their choice and their money.

The only way I would ever end up with a Harley would be for short term resale profit or if I won one in a drawing which I have been known to enter. Why would I want to win a Harley? Shock value! lol ! Red would look at me and say... WTF happened to you?

Now... I do give kudos to Harley in several areas.
1. Some models actually look very good.

2. Some Harley sound very good... example, off in the distance you hear one that likely has straight pipes on it row through the gears at wide open throttle while getting out on the freeway. However, I could say the same thing about a Hayabusa under the same conditions.

3. They do resale nicely if they run and look good to a specific buyer.

4. Harley has mastered the custom look right off the sales floor.

 

[Bumblebee]

While I can't argue that point I will say this. Take a comparable motorcycle in the Harley line up to a 1400 Concours or several offering from BMW, Honda and Yamaha and if they can let go of the bias they likely have... its no contest in terms of performance vs cost. In the 80s and one time in the 90s I worked in sales at Japanese only motorcycle shops.

My deepest exposure to the technical side of motorcycles was with Honda. It left me with one dominating thought even though I never really looked beyond Honda for more engineering expertise in other brands. So, my bias is real on this subject. My dominant thought was in the 80s nd 90s was... People have no idea how advanced the engineering is at Honda.

Harley has relied on image popularity and made in America brand for decades... whatever works, works... however the tech race is just about over for Harley. Riders can ride those under performing over priced pigs as long as it makes them happy... it's their choice and their money.

The only way I would ever end up with a Harley would be for short term resale profit or if I won one in a drawing which I have been known to enter. Why would I want to win a Harley? Shock value! lol ! Red would look at me and say... WTF happened to you?

Now... I do give kudos to Harley in several areas.
1. Some models actually look very good.

2. Some Harley sound very good... example, off in the distance you hear one that likely has straight pipes on it row through the gears at wide open throttle while getting out on the freeway. However, I could say the same thing about a Hayabusa under the same conditions.

3. They do resale nicely if they run and look good to a specific buyer.

4. Harley has mastered the custom look right off the sales floor.

Nobody can argue with this.......

I guess it all boils down to what a person wants to own and ride.....

There are lots of Hayabusa haters out there but that doesn't deter me from riding one.

......and Harley has a real devout, loyal fanbase......they are aging though so we will see how the future goes.

 

[CBXRider]

I've watched documentaries where people never thought Indian would close up shop as it was very competitive with HD in the day.....

When we look back, there were a lot of motorcycle companies that have come and gone over the years......and good, solid ones at that.....Norton, BSA, AJS, Vincent, Henderson, etc, etc.....

I read somewhere that Indian could’ve ended up as popular as Harley if they’d produced a 750 like Harley did when both were asked for a 500 way back when (WW2). Harley got the contract and history is history. Indian struggled because of that. To my eyes Indian makes the prettiest motor for their big model and I’m kind of biased…

 

[sixpack577]

I read somewhere that Indian could’ve ended up as popular as Harley if they’d produced a 750 like Harley did when both were asked for a 500 way back when (WW2). Harley got the contract and history is history. Indian struggled because of that. To my eyes Indian makes the prettiest motor for their big model and I’m kind of biased…

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View attachment 1696762

Yeah, it really is.
But where is the woke crowd?
That awful, heinous, disrespectful name and logo imigeary...lmao
I shouldn't have said anything, the alphabet gang will be along shortly to try and cancel them...

 

[CBXRider]

I’ve ridden thru northern AZ and southern UT, the Navajo Res is huge. I wonder how the interaction would go between an Indian rider and a resident in the Res.

 

[sixpack577]

I’ve ridden thru northern AZ and southern UT, the Navajo Res is huge. I wonder how the interaction would go between an Indian rider and a resident in the Res.

It would be interesting..
But I saw quite a few Native Americans on Youtube when the Cleveland Indians were changing their name, and they were against the change.
They did not find it offensive at all, quite the opposite actually.
I didn't mean to steer this thread into the ditch either, and I belive it is only the minority population in any group or race that are the ones always offended by something.
Indian Motorcycles themselves have said how they want to respectfully honor the heritage of the brand, and the Native American people, and do so by building great bikes that represent the brand in a good way.
I think that's the best that any of us can do in any situation.

Now, let me put the lid on this can of worms...and back to the original discussion.

 

[Oz22]

The narrator mentioned "out dated business model". How about updating the engine design?

A big component of loyalty started years ago with "image"

It's all about image as far as I can tell, the bandanna, the boots, the vest, the tassels, the Harley branded lighter and ring
All these old men, ridin around, pretendin their badass. Pretending they are something they are not in most cases. And meanwhile they are clogging up the corners and slowing down everyone who wants to have fun. Even the "cage driver" thing is BS. They are the cage drivers now, I wish they'd just move over and let the motorcyclists through like everyone else does.

 

[sixpack577]

It's all about image as far as I can tell, the bandanna, the boots, the vest, the tassels, the Harley branded lighter and ring
All these old men, ridin around, pretendin their badass. Pretending they are something they are not in most cases. And meanwhile they are clogging up the corners and slowing down everyone who wants to have fun. Even the "cage driver" thing is BS. They are the cage drivers now, I wish they'd just move over and let the motorcyclists through like everyone else does.

I would have to say that this is true for the vast majority of HD riders, with a few exceptions.
The HD guys here are motorcycle riders, as they have Busas, dualsports, metric cruisers and several other kinds of bikes in the garage, and just enjoy all different kinds of bikes to ride.
The others; have you ever seen the Hells Angels ride through?
If not, word to the wise...get out of their way!
That is where 'Rolling Thunder' comes from.
A hundred guys going a hundred plus mph on the highways, dragging through turns at the bike's limits, and riding wide open with careless disregard.
Their skill, or just outright 'ride it like you stole it' is impressive to say the least.
They are not to be F'd with on or off of the road.
Can I get away on a sportbike? Yep
And get away I do, up some snake path and out of sight asap, lol, as if not, at some point you will check your mirrors to find them barreling down on top of you, as most of us slow down at some point, even if it's because it's a good idea to obey the speed limit in a certain area...they don't.
And in most cases, the police let it slide, and you can't really blame them.
The cops would rather hang back and hope for the best, vs starting much worse problems with them.

 

[jellyrug]

I would have to say that this is true for the vast majority of HD riders, with a few exceptions.
The HD guys here are motorcycle riders, as they have Busas, dualsports, metric cruisers and several other kinds of bikes in the garage, and just enjoy all different kinds of bikes to ride.
The others; have you ever seen the Hells Angels ride through?
If not, word to the wise...get out of their way!
That is where 'Rolling Thunder' comes from.
A hundred guys going a hundred plus mph on the highways, dragging through turns at the bike's limits, and riding wide open with careless disregard.
Their skill, or just outright 'ride it like you stole it' is impressive to say the least.
They are not to be F'd with on or off of the road.
Can I get away on a sportbike? Yep
And get away I do, up some snake path and out of sight asap, lol, as if not, at some point you will check your mirrors to find them barreling down on top of you, as most of us slow down at some point, even if it's because it's a good idea to obey the speed limit in a certain area...they don't.
And in most cases, the police let it slide, and you can't really blame them.
The cops would rather hang back and hope for the best, vs starting much worse problems with them.

Never rode close to the Hells Angles, not sure if they exist here in NC?

Once went past our local Harley Chapter, dark visor, they did not recognize me, guess it was more than 50 bikes and when I past the ride leader, I must have been around 160mph.

Next ride with the chapter on my Harley, at lunch one guy was telling another about this suicidal maniac that went past them at some crazy speed, like 200mph, a few chapter rides back.

 

[CBXRider]

On tour ages ago on my 79 CBX I had just finished checking into a motel when a thunderous commotion rolled in. Turned out to be a bunch of HAs. One very big fellow put down a Visa card and charged all the rooms on it. He also asked for extra towels and blankets as I guess there were going to be more than four to a room. As I was about to leave the office he asked if that six was mine. When I answered he assured me that it would be safe because their prospects would be awake in the parking lot all night watching theirs. I felt fortunate that I was riding a vintage bike.

 

[Oz22]

have you ever seen the Hells Angels ride through?
If not, word to the wise...get out of their way!

We have a chapter or two down here but their not the biggest. The last time I saw a gang of outlaws riding out country was when the Rebels went past at full speed, the last rider had the confederate flag flying, that's their trademark. They don't do runs often up here in QLD, and for a while they rode with a police escort, paid for by themselves. It's a long story about special laws passed to eradicate all the clubs and was quite effective until they were overturned. The cops would pull them over for any infraction and give them a ticket, soon they were losing their licenses in droves and that put an end to group rides.

Many club houses were shut down too and the government put cameras up watching the ones that weren't. Like I said the laws were abolished but the cops still keep on their case, they are very low key now. It all started over a brawl between gangs in a popular beach-side restaurant that left a few civilians cut up. I couldn't tell you the last time I saw a patched rider, 5 years probably?

 

[Cruising180]

I hear you........I personally don't get the attraction to HD either......but those owners certainly are loyal and dedicated to the brand....

.......and we've all seen how much they get into the apparel side of HD as well.....

I knew a guy that when he rode his Honda VFR, he wore full gear all the time...he bought a Fat Boy and automatically started wearing one of those beanie helmets, a tee-shirt and vest and gloves with no fingers as this was the "style" he wanted to embrace.......I told him crashing on an HD won't keep him safer than crashing on his Honda but he scoffed at that saying he had to look the part....

Because he's a uhhhh reeeeeeal biiiiiker now!