HAYABUSA vs. ZX12...The saga continues

[OB_SUPERTUNER]

At last report I told you that we are racing
several Hayabusas and one ZX12 out of my shop. Now a few weeks later and BIG improvements on both bikes on the Dyno and on the racetrack. I am here to tell you guys that both bikes from a performance standpoint
regarding power output that they are very close to the same peak...in fact the one ZX12 that I have constant contact with and am continually tuning is actually quite a bit more powerful than the Suzuki at peak. The Hayabusa crushes the Kawasaki for torque and that is why they feel faster to most. Properly handled on the racetrack and either bike will run well. Sub 9.50's are realistic with either bike with the higher MPH probably going to the Kawasaki. The engines in all the bikes we are racing from our shop are stock and have only been externally tuned. Will report back again after July 15th with actual performance stats, but make no mistake about it gang...both bikes are awesome and for the record...this comes from a shop owner who has absolutely NO brand loyalty...if Mopeds were fast...I would be tuning them! Peace...Freddie

 

[OB_Mr Bear]

Do you find the Kawasaki is easier to work on I.E. easier access to components?

Also, what about electronic restrictions on the Kaw? Any effort you know of yet to improve on, or "de-restrict", it's brain?

 

[OB_THE MOTORHEAD]

WELL I'M SENDIN A DAMN BOX BECAUSE I'LL BE DAMN IF THE 12 RUNS MORE MPH IF I GOT ANY SAY SO.I RAN 148.5 THE OTHER DAY WITH POOR PPASSES SO IT WILL GO 150.I DON'T SEE ANY PIPED 12S DOIN IT .AND DON'T TELL ME ABOUT TRICKY RICKEY EITHER.YOU'LL SEE IT TUES OR WED.

 

[OB_Speeder T]

So the ZX12 is all tuned for top end horse and tork and the Busa is tuned for low end
and midrange,a do it all thing? The Busa has
a little road race built into it?

 

[OB_WARBIRD]

Hi Mr. Bear.
I dont think there are any restrictions on the Kawasaki. Several people have reported it pulling to redline in 6th gear on the dyno. I believe it just runs into a horspower to aerodynamic wall. Given the Kaw and Suzuki's very close weight and horsepower specs, the Suzuki must be more aerodynamic. The Kaw probably has more peak horsepower of the two which further supports how slipery the Suzuki is. Kawasaki came up just a little bit short is all,and I mean a LITTLE bit! Its still one capable machine no matter how you look at it.

 

[Frank Adams]

I've seen 8 different zx-12's run at different tracks and I have yet to see one run faster then 141mph.

 

[OB_WARBIRD]

With a peakier powerband and a 2inch shorter wheel base, the Kawasaki is going to be harder to launch Frank. Especially for some wide eyed rookie with little track experience. As an all around street bike Im sure the big Kaw is probably a match for the Busa in most respects. [except things like fit and finish,looks,and I think all around quality feel.] I could have bought a Kaw the day I bought the Busa but really thought the Busa was much nicer all around. Also the Suzuki motor is in a much milder state of tune than the smaller hotrodded Kawi engine. Leaves a lot more room for mods an the Suzuki. Anyone really had a couple good roll ons with the green machine? What was the outcome?

 

[OB_ZXALAN]

Hey MHEAD, are you running a PC II?
What gearing?
Clutch mod?
What rear tire?
What stacks?
PS 3?
How much HP are you at?

I am not being nosey, I am just interested due to the fact that your bike has 4+ mph on mine and we weigh about the same and have similar parts(I think!) If you don't want to spill your guts its cool, believe me I understand, I'm just hunting for power. The numbers are showing your up about 15 to 20 hp on me!!

Thanks, Alan

 

[OB_THE MOTORHEAD]

full ti muzzy and pc 2 w harv map.166 hp.stock gearing +2 mm throttlebodies stock stacks +4 arm but those were very bad passes .like only 112 114 1/8 mile.i shoulda went 150.it was 80degrees at the time and very humid

[This message has been edited by THE MOTORHEAD (edited 10 July 2000).]

 

[OB_Wronglane]

"Lebanon Valley New York
and Saturday evening at Englishtown New Jersey will be a good testament"

Freddie,what Saturday(date)will you be at E-town? If I can make it,I would like to be there and meet you.

 

[OB_WARBIRD]

Supertuner, what is the "sledghammer theory of aerodynamics"?

 

[OB_SUPERTUNER]

Wronglane...there is a group of guys that I help tune and a few others that are going to a race at Lebanon Valley. It is an all bike race as well as asphalt snowmobile racing which my company makes products, race engines
and parts for so I HAVE to be there. If all goes well, I want to leave Lebanon Valley New York with enough time to get us to Englishtown New Jersey...this all will be happening on Saturday July 15th. If I could convince the guys not to start drinking beer
too early in the day, we will make both race tracks, but we really won't know till we actually try to do it! I hope for the chance to meet some of you guys in person. Warbird...the "sledgehammer theory of aerodynamics" is simply "punching" holes in the air with horsepower. Freddie

 

[OB_busTa Kaw]

Alan

No need to worry about your trap speed. As I have found out from reading this board and going to various tracks, not all tracks give the right mph. I have noticed variances of 5mph or more. I also used to read the ZX-12 board until they were posting $hit numbers like 122mph in 1/8th mile on stock ones. My bike runs 112 to 114mph in 1/8th also but only 141 or 142 in 1/4 mile thats with a put my chin flat on the tank tuck too. Whose track is wrong?? I dont know but my buddy has the 1360cc engine from carpenter and only runs 150mph in 1/4 with around 200hp at the rear wheel. Oh yeah dynos vary LOTS too.
Just my 1300cents.

 

[OB_ZXALAN]

Hey guys, take a jump to LA. ZX-12's over on the La Busas board. I was "spying" on them and those guys are talking serious HP numbers and trap speeds. I almost couldn't believe some of what they were saying. Like 170+ hp out of just a pipe, no remap! and many of them running 147+ mph with only a pipe even one of them running 152 mph with a pipe and a lot of dyno tuning! Hey MHEAD, how'd you get 148.5 mph? You mind sharing what trick you pulled on your bike to make that much power?

 

[OB_NITRO NINJA]

SUPERTUNER, Are you racing at Lebanon Valley or just helping your guy's out? Do you know if anyone with be bringing a 12 to race? Thanks


NN

 

[OB_THE MOTORHEAD]

but if you go to the same track and go pass at=fter pass mph will tell you something.if his makes 200 hp and goes 150 he must chop the throttle or sit streight up.the high mph in the 1/8 is due in part by how you ride.my 99 started out at 112 then just through technique went to 116 then through more power went to 118 with stock exh and nmot lowered at all.and it went 9.60s@ 146.5 on a regular basis.

 

[OB_SUPERTUNER]

Gentleman...for starters there are no electronic restrictions whatsoever on any of the sportbikes except a high end rev limiter that absolutley, positiviely will not come into play on the dragstrip. Motorhead...I am
looking forward to and honored to try your airbox sir. I would like to state that if I had to purchase one of these models today...it would be the Suzuki. But make no mistake about it guys...the Kawasaki is showing great results and I don't want anyone to be influenced by the "brand loyalists". I
merely want to report exactly what our experiences are...I do not want to turn this into a "challenge" on this forum...that is better left for the dragstrip. I have been afforded a luxury of being able to conduct these tests with constant and consistent contact on both models with no outside influence to change things around. We all know where the Hayabusas power numbers are so talking about that is redundant...what we are
concentrating on now is putting the power in a format that better suits the needs of going fast on the dragstrip. The numbers in the 170's rear wheel are very real for the ZX12 as ours made 173.7. This same bike went 143 MPH with a slow 60 foot 3 weeks ago, so it will be terrific data to see what the additional power increase will do for that. My calculations say that 150+ is realistic...even for those of you that live by the "sledgehammer theory" of aerodynamics.
Saturday July 15th...Lebanon Valley New York
and Saturday evening at Englishtown New Jersey will be a good testament. Will keep you all updated as info becomes available.
Peace...Freddie

 

[OB_THE MOTORHEAD]

pipe airbog +2.5 mmbore on throttle bodies muzzy ti pipe +4 s arm that was bed passes i expect 150+.and yo go 940s without lowering or strapping or even tire pressure changes.with a shifter and counter balancer removal she will roll even better

 

[OB_busTa Kaw]

M.H.

The guy I was talking about has been draggin' bikes for about 10 years. He has great technique although the bike is hard to keep down through the 1/8th. He runs 118mph in 1/8th and has an air shifter so shifting doesnt come into play much. Also, every stock busa I have seen around here runs almost the exact same mph in 1/4....140mph or so. I hope you didnt think I was calling you a liar or anything....maybe the timers here giving slow trap speeds. I am sure if he could stay in it in the lower gears he could pick up a couple of mph. By the way,
Carpenter did a number on the engine. After about 500 miles the valves sunk up in the seats and the engine wouldn't run....no compression. He had to have it redone with different valves and seats. He also opted for a smaller cam and although he hasnt dynoed it yet I can tell it makes alot less hp. We hit it from a second gear roll and he only pulled me about 2 bikes to fourth gear. Before he would pull 6 or 7 bikes.
He has spent probably 7grand on the engine now and had to wait on the bike about 3mths so needless to say dont ask him to recommend Carpenter.

 

[OB_ZXALAN]

Hey BustaKaw, I to run at the same track everytime. Usually the track is really good only that it is so hot down here(Houston)the track gets oily. I usually 60' only about 1.75 and 330' around 4.40, 1/8 is 6.50 or so but it is at anywhere from 118 to 122 mph. Mostly it is 120 mph. That seems pretty good to me for stock height and length but I only end up at about 144-5 mph in the traps @ a 9.90 or so. It seems my bike just doesn't pull as hard after the 1/8 mi. Mhead went a 10.20 at 148.5 mph! If he is only running 118 @ the 1/8 then he is fukking flying after the 1/8! I want mine in the 9.70's@147 or 8 with stock height and length and I'll be happy. Any Suggestions?