intercooler or water injection ?
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ahh ok. Yea the e85 has some pros AND cons. Check every o-ring and piece of rubber that may touch that stuff.
When it first hit the gas pumps i didn't know they had switched to it. Filled my tank up before heading home and the next morning my garage had a wicked alc smell to it. I discovered that some o-ring I was using at my reg and fuel filter (which are mounted below the tank) weren't campatable with it. IThey swelled and about half a gallon or so leaked out over night. What a freakin mess that was! Wife was pissed too... "what the hell is that smell? r u trying to blow the house up?" lol I corrected it and haven't had any issues since.
When it first hit the gas pumps i didn't know they had switched to it. Filled my tank up before heading home and the next morning my garage had a wicked alc smell to it. I discovered that some o-ring I was using at my reg and fuel filter (which are mounted below the tank) weren't campatable with it. IThey swelled and about half a gallon or so leaked out over night. What a freakin mess that was! Wife was pissed too... "what the hell is that smell? r u trying to blow the house up?" lol I corrected it and haven't had any issues since.
EvoMike
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E85 is some good stuff but it's not available everywhere yet. I live in Great Falls, Montana for now and there isn't a pump within 100 miles that sells it yet. In order to get any race quality fuel here you have to go to the local dirt track or the refinery.
My understanding is E85 is a Ethanol/pumpgas mix. To quote http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/E85 "E85 is an alcohol fuel mixture that typically contains a mixture of up to 85% denatured fuel ethanol and gasoline or other hydrocarbon by volume. On a undenatured basis, the ethanol component ranges from 70% to 83%."
In the water/alky kit I use I run Denatured Alcohol which is ethanol that has been rendered toxic or otherwise undrinkable because there is Methanol mixed in
.
So what is the difference between Alky/Water injection and E85?
Other than not having the added cooling benefits while spraying alky/water, E85 in the gas tank will produce all the other benefits the Alky/water injection will give. Keep in mind you WILL need to get your bike custom tuned to experience the full benefits of E85 no matter if you are stock or built. If you were to run just the Alky/water injection you will also have to get the bike custom tuned.
My understanding is E85 is a Ethanol/pumpgas mix. To quote http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/E85 "E85 is an alcohol fuel mixture that typically contains a mixture of up to 85% denatured fuel ethanol and gasoline or other hydrocarbon by volume. On a undenatured basis, the ethanol component ranges from 70% to 83%."
In the water/alky kit I use I run Denatured Alcohol which is ethanol that has been rendered toxic or otherwise undrinkable because there is Methanol mixed in
.
So what is the difference between Alky/Water injection and E85?
Other than not having the added cooling benefits while spraying alky/water, E85 in the gas tank will produce all the other benefits the Alky/water injection will give. Keep in mind you WILL need to get your bike custom tuned to experience the full benefits of E85 no matter if you are stock or built. If you were to run just the Alky/water injection you will also have to get the bike custom tuned.
cdhoroho
Registered
i will be running a full wideband setup on mine in which i tune it as it rides with a full standalone
it is like running methanol in a way cause it cools the intake temp
the octane level is 104
and i have 4 dealers within 10 miles of my house
it is the future with turbos
E85 requires 30% more fuel then reg gas
it is 85% ethanol
how many places can you get 104 octane out of the pump?
its been known for a while that h20 injection is a bandaid and i agree with it
yes if you start adding ethanol that is a little different but there is still the fact youll have to add more and if you run out what good is it?
it is like running methanol in a way cause it cools the intake temp
the octane level is 104
and i have 4 dealers within 10 miles of my house
it is the future with turbos
E85 requires 30% more fuel then reg gas
it is 85% ethanol
how many places can you get 104 octane out of the pump?
its been known for a while that h20 injection is a bandaid and i agree with it
yes if you start adding ethanol that is a little different but there is still the fact youll have to add more and if you run out what good is it?
EvoMike
Registered
As for what happens when you run out, like I said before... When using Alky/water injection get two maps made, one on the mix and one off. You should get two maps made for running E85 as well in the event you are somewhere away from an E85 Pump and have to run regular pump gas.
How does running E85 cool intake temps? When running E85 in the main gas tank it injects at the head not leaving very much time to cool much of anything. The benefits you get from E85 is the higher flash point and the cooler burn which allows more timing to be run meaning more HP.
I personally run a straight Denatured Alcohol in my injection kit, and 91oct in the main tank. I run 21psi boost with 10 degrees advanced timing on a Mitsubishi 20g with a 10.5 hotside producing zero recordable knock. Did I mention the 140F cooler intake temps?
You never did answer how alky injection is a band aid? Saying that is like saying nitrous is a band aid. A performance adder is a performance adder. Alky injection is just a different way of getting it done.
How does running E85 cool intake temps? When running E85 in the main gas tank it injects at the head not leaving very much time to cool much of anything. The benefits you get from E85 is the higher flash point and the cooler burn which allows more timing to be run meaning more HP.
I personally run a straight Denatured Alcohol in my injection kit, and 91oct in the main tank. I run 21psi boost with 10 degrees advanced timing on a Mitsubishi 20g with a 10.5 hotside producing zero recordable knock. Did I mention the 140F cooler intake temps?
You never did answer how alky injection is a band aid? Saying that is like saying nitrous is a band aid. A performance adder is a performance adder. Alky injection is just a different way of getting it done.
cdhoroho
Registered
no i state that h2o injection is a bandaid
and it is not needed
ive not ran it and i dont see alot running it
so tell me who its needed
oh thats right its not
its even illeagal in certain classes of racing so they are getting by without it
and tell me why a methanol injected car freezes the intake up on it at the end of a run
??
ethanol is similar in how it works from what ive seen
and if running a w/a like i am then the H2O injection will never be needed
and i can see more temperature drop then 140 lol
and the E85 added with the
i am running a standalone ecu so i do need 2 different maps
i run a wideband closed loop similar to a flex fuel car
that is if i need to
but where i live there is e85 EVERYWHERE
i live in corn country
but i will repeat i stated in all of my posts the H2O injection is the bandaid so dont act like i was sayin alky injection
but with my setup i think mine will be more efficient
and for the track i am going to run an ice box
and it is not needed
ive not ran it and i dont see alot running it
so tell me who its needed
oh thats right its not
its even illeagal in certain classes of racing so they are getting by without it
and tell me why a methanol injected car freezes the intake up on it at the end of a run
??
ethanol is similar in how it works from what ive seen
and if running a w/a like i am then the H2O injection will never be needed
and i can see more temperature drop then 140 lol
and the E85 added with the
i am running a standalone ecu so i do need 2 different maps
i run a wideband closed loop similar to a flex fuel car
that is if i need to
but where i live there is e85 EVERYWHERE
i live in corn country
but i will repeat i stated in all of my posts the H2O injection is the bandaid so dont act like i was sayin alky injection
but with my setup i think mine will be more efficient
and for the track i am going to run an ice box
EvoMike
Registered
And that's cool. To each their own. I don't truly agree with H2O being injected into a motor either, hence why I use straight denatured alcohol. If water was good then why is water in gas bad?? I agree with you on the H2O part.
"tell me why a methanol injected car freezes the intake up on it at the end of a run " It's in the location of the injectors. If you notice I mentioned my intake freezes up as well running the alky injection kit. Methanol has greater cooling properties over ethanol so what you said above doesn't surprise me. Injecting either at the head just doesn't give you the full benefit of cooling air charge. Moving the injectors closer to the throttle bodies will allow for better atomization in turn cooling the charge more.
Now on the new 2008 busa's the secondary injectors are placed closer to the throttle bodies meaning with E85 you will see all the all same benefits of the alky injection without having to use an injection kit. I personally don't like using piggy back systems and that is what the alky kit is in my opinion. But like I keep saying, for those that don't have a new 2008 busa and that can't find E85 near them this is an option.
I wasn't trying to argue with you but you brought opened a whole other can of worms when it come to this particular discussion. The type of fuel wasn't one of things in consideration when the thread first opened. My initial thoughts were based between Injection and the Air to Air Intercooler.
A few of use that have experience with turbo applications should get together sometime and write up all the advantaged and disadvantaged with each part of a turbo application. Meaning from the type of header, the turbo, how to cool the air charge, internal or external wastegate, BOVs, intake manifolds, pistons, heads etc. This definatly isn't the thread for that though.
Again I didn't mean to piss ya off. I thought it was just a good debate.
"tell me why a methanol injected car freezes the intake up on it at the end of a run " It's in the location of the injectors. If you notice I mentioned my intake freezes up as well running the alky injection kit. Methanol has greater cooling properties over ethanol so what you said above doesn't surprise me. Injecting either at the head just doesn't give you the full benefit of cooling air charge. Moving the injectors closer to the throttle bodies will allow for better atomization in turn cooling the charge more.
Now on the new 2008 busa's the secondary injectors are placed closer to the throttle bodies meaning with E85 you will see all the all same benefits of the alky injection without having to use an injection kit. I personally don't like using piggy back systems and that is what the alky kit is in my opinion. But like I keep saying, for those that don't have a new 2008 busa and that can't find E85 near them this is an option.
I wasn't trying to argue with you but you brought opened a whole other can of worms when it come to this particular discussion. The type of fuel wasn't one of things in consideration when the thread first opened. My initial thoughts were based between Injection and the Air to Air Intercooler.
A few of use that have experience with turbo applications should get together sometime and write up all the advantaged and disadvantaged with each part of a turbo application. Meaning from the type of header, the turbo, how to cool the air charge, internal or external wastegate, BOVs, intake manifolds, pistons, heads etc. This definatly isn't the thread for that though.
Again I didn't mean to piss ya off. I thought it was just a good debate.
cdhoroho
Registered
the injectors arent truely in the head on the busa
they are in the TB's themselves
and whaen running the secondary systems we build around here we run the second set directly into the TBs also
so the cooling does work well
but yes i see both sides i just had stated about the h2o not the alky in my post
so i didnt truely mean to upset anyone in my post either
i on the other hand dont like rising rate regulated systems they are too instable
they are in the TB's themselves
and whaen running the secondary systems we build around here we run the second set directly into the TBs also
so the cooling does work well
but yes i see both sides i just had stated about the h2o not the alky in my post
so i didnt truely mean to upset anyone in my post either
i on the other hand dont like rising rate regulated systems they are too instable
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