Kawasaki ZX-12R

[ralnsplder]

yea I agree that it is all opinion. I just havent seen anymagazines ever say the 12r was better then the busa, I have seen several that say the busa is though.
You can go back anf forth all day about who thinks what is better.

The busa is still the king even after everything is said and done. I also believe the busa has a higher selling rate then the 12r as well.

 

[Aughtsix]

yea  I agree that it is all opinion.  I just havent seen anymagazines ever say the 12r was better then the busa, I have seen several that say the busa is though.
You can go back anf forth all day about who thinks what is better.

Whaaaaa?? Magazines??

The monthly fishwrap panders to the lowest common denominator - not exactly a glowing recommendation of the Busa. Suppose the 12r was the one heralded in the magazines? Would you then say "oh well, the magazines have spoken. My bike is spew..."?

That's why I was asking you to quantify 'better'...

See, I would consider the 12r to be the 'better' bike by reason of its superior handling and braking, and superior comfort for taller riders, while agreeing that the Busa is the reigning King of the street by reason of its superior torque and quarter mile times. In other words, I don't think that the King is the 'better' bike in this case; yet still being King.

I also believe the busa has a higher selling rate then the 12r as well. [/QUOTE]

I recall several members of this forum having a hairball of a time selling their Busa. I know that in my local CycleTrader there are Busas that sit week after week after week.

Also, the 12r is a lower production bike as I recall, so don't get sidetracked by pure numbers. Just this last Veteran's Day I had a dealer tell me that they'll get a dozen or more Busas while only getting three Kawis... so yes, there will more than likely be more Busas around.


I guess I'll confess to being the oddball, not having an undying loyalty to either bike. While on Suzukis I would look at Kawasakis and while on Kawasakis I would look at Suzukis - and take each bike for its strengths and its weaknesses. I guess I'll also confess to wishing to see a bit more objectivity, but oh well...

Tell me this Spider - do you really like the color scheme and graphics on the Busa??

Steve

 

[ChronosWS]

We have the opposite problem here. I've seen 12Rs available locally year round in the Kawasaki shop - they don't go flying off the showroom floors. Busas, on the other hand, can only be had with deposit, and do not sit on the showroom floor at all. It probably has to do with the demographics I suppose. This is a Microsoft town, and people with more dollars than sense know all about the 'busa. They'll buy it just for the name. But a ZX12R? Wouldn't ring a bell.

 

[Sane_man]

When I bought my Busa, I didn't know anything about it being the fastest bike, I just wanted a sport bike physically larger then a GxSR or R1. I almost bought a ZX-12, but to me the Busa looks a little better.

All of the ad's I've seen in the last year on the local boards for ZX-12's, none have sold. The only Busa's I've seen that didn't sell, were priced above market. There's a guy trying to sell an '02 stock Busa for $9k with 14,000 miles on the local board.

It'll never happen. There were at least four other guy's on the same board since January trying to sell their ZX-12R's, they stil own them in spite of dropping the price below $7k. Just not a market for them used. There's nothing wrong with them at all, they are nice bike's, just not as desirable as other bike's.

 

[Tufbusa]

Back a few months ago when we had weather we can now only dream about, I had the opportunity to ride the infamous ZX-12R. I was on a group ride and one of the guys had an almost new 12. I was curious so I offered to trade my bright new Purple/Black busa for his 12. After a hundred miles or so, we traded back. The only thing I found the 12 to be superior at was the brakes. It had much better brakes than the busa. However, I found it heavy and clumbersom in the corners. The steering was quite heavy and I seem to take lots of muscle to corner. The 12 had plenty of power and wheelied quite well but just wasn't my cup of tea. I was happy to get back on my busa and the 12 rider said this, "If I had the money, I'd have a busa"! I think that said a lot for the busa. After riding my busa he had buyers remorse. Even though the busa is arguably the best all around bike on the market today, I still ride my GSXR-1000 much more than my busa.

 

[gtrpimp76]

That's one of the main reasons I'm kinda holding out TufBusa. I don't wanna get buyers remorse, esp after the Busas show up at my dealership here. But the 12 does have me a bit curious. I've already test ridden the 12 that I wanna buy. It corners extremely well and it does have better brakes compared to the Busa. It is totally wheelie prone but I'm pretty cool with that. I find the Busa so much more comfortable ergo-wise. I'm 6 ft even, 230 lbs so the Busa fits so much better. Probably b/c it sits lower. And the looks? The Busa is unique while the 12 looks just like any other liter bike (but a damn SEXY liter bike).

 

[Aughtsix]

However, I found it heavy and clumbersom in the corners. The steering was quite heavy and I seem to take lots of muscle to corner.

I can only surmise that your friend hadn't set up the suspension on his 12r, he was running low air pressure in his front tire and/or he's still running the 200 rear tire. The 12r is a handling machine, so, given your story, there's definitely a problem.

Set the sag correctly, run proper pressures and the handling of the 12r will make the Busa seem like a steamship in comparison. Switch to a 180 or 190 rear tire as soon as possible and it gets even better.

His 'buyers remorse' is undoubtedly a product of his own making, as well as leading you to your conclusion.


Busa owners are a strange group; some try to make the Busa appear to be a cross between an F14 Tomcat and a 600 Gixxer, and blessed by the Pope. It just ain't so...

Steve

 

[Aughtsix]

Gtr - You're doing the right thing. Ride both bikes and buy the one your heart longs for. If you do that you won't experience buyer's remorse.

I recommend you wait until the Busa comes in, then tell your salesman you're going to ride both bikes back to back and buy the one you prefer.

One more thing to consider though...

The 12r you rode, that handled extremely well, more than likely wasn't set up for your weight and actually handles much better than you experienced. The 12r comes from the factory set up for around 180lbs. Before you ride the bikes - especially the 12r because it's sensitive to proper setup - have their shop set up both bikes for your weight. That way whichever bike you buy is already set up for you -and- it'll give you a more accurate comparison.

Steve

 

[Tufbusa]

I was just stating my personal experience dude, didn't mean to touch a sore spot? I ask about tire pressure, 38# both ends. I have no bones about anyone buying a 12 that wants one. I just wasn't impressed with the handling. But then I only rode it a hundred miles or so. I do enjoy riding my busa but my favorite bike is by far my GSXR-1000. To me, it's just more agile, lightening quick, down one in the front and up two in the rear makes it a real wheelie machine and it still does an easy buck fifty. It's just so much easier to play and have fun on than either of the two big guys.

 

[Aughtsix]

I was just stating my personal experience dude, didn't mean to touch a sore spot?

No sore spot...

Just that your story not only doesn't correlate with the specs of both bikes, but it doesn't correlate with the experiences of others; even the people in this thread, on a Busa forum, who've ridden the 12r.

This suggests to me that there's something wrong - either with your story or with the bike.

Suppose I wrote a post in which I said that I'd recently ridden a friend's GSXR-1000 and, while it was a nice bike, it handled poorly, had heavy response, was basically a pig to wrestle around corners and I was sure glad to get back on my Busa. I'd imagine your BS meter would be twitching pretty wildly too...

Steve

 

[jt02busa]

my buddy has one says it is way to twitchy in the front end needs a dampener and to move the engine a few inches forward to help balance that unicycle out

 

[Relsek]

I was just stating my personal experience dude, didn't mean to touch a sore spot?

No sore spot...

Just that your story not only doesn't correlate with the specs of both bikes, but it doesn't correlate with the experiences of others;  even the people in this thread, on a Busa forum, who've ridden the 12r.

This suggests to me that there's something wrong - either with your story or with the bike.  

Suppose I wrote a post in which I said that I'd recently ridden a friend's GSXR-1000 and, while it was a nice bike, it handled poorly, had heavy response, was basically a pig to wrestle around corners and I was sure glad to get back on my Busa.  I'd imagine your BS meter would be twitching pretty wildly too...

Steve

Steve, I was just reading this thread and my wife looked over my shoulder and started reading. She wants to know if you argue with everybody. I think she is noticing a trend. What should I tell her?

<span style='font-size:15pt;line-height:100%'><span style='color:red'>TELL HER TO STOP READING OVER YOUR SHOULDER</span></span>

Kev  

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[PaceMaster]

Poser----Not me dude. I wanted a ZX12 for awhile--probably would have bought one if the passenger seat was actually usable. Ride solo alot but two up also...Busa wins on that. Performance wise very close...neither one is SLOW by any stretch. Ride what you like and be happy---Right now the Busa makes us very happy......what a debate or is it an argument...

 

[Aughtsix]

Steve, I was just reading this thread and my wife looked over my shoulder and started reading. She wants to know if you argue with everybody. I think she is noticing a trend. What should I tell her?

Kev  

I don't know Kevin, you tell me - you seem to have me pretty much categorized.

I speak up when I see something that doesn't ring true. Like most folks, I agree with that with which I agree - I disagree with that with which I disagree -- Is that a problem for you?? Is this not an open forum?? Have you become the arbiter of what I post?? Are you ever going to grow tired of following me around humping my leg??

Funny thing - you harp on me for disagreeing all the while you post in disagreement with what I do... Ever look up the word 'hypocrite' Kevin?? You're guilty of the very sin of which you accuse me. Funny thing...

If you disagree with the content of what I post, fine, show me where I'm wrong because that's how I learn and grow, but you're not disagreeing with the content of what I post, you're intimating a deviance - a maleficence - behind my posts that simply doesn't exist. That's a darkness in your character Kevin, not in mine, and it shows a serious flaw in that which you call Christianity...

Steve

 

[Aughtsix]

my buddy has one says it is way to twitchy in the front end needs a dampener and to move the engine a few inches forward to help balance that unicycle out

Yes, the '03 and newer bikes are said to be prone to tank slappers under the right conditions.  I didn't experience any, but then I'm not a super aggressive rider.  Those who have experienced them on the newer bikes say a steering damper eliminates the problem.  

The geometry that tends to induce tank slappers is the same geometry that makes the 12r handle so well - a trade off I guess...

Steve

<span style='font-size:15pt;line-height:100%'><span style='color:red'>OK LET'S NOT KEEP THE POST WARS GOING HERE  WE WILL KEEP AN EYE ON WHAT IS RIGHT OR GOOD.</span></span>

Disclaimer:  This post is offered pending the approval of Kevin Kesler, arbiter of all that is right and good.



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[RidersNation]

Uhh Steve Yes I meant that when my friend is on the 12R 195 lbs. and I am on my busa (me 130lbs. at that time) he was always trying to either run or catch up, couldn't do either. Curious I wonder what it would dyno now that it is broken in?

it'll be back on the Row this year for Moto GP weekend . was absent this year.

Roy

 

[MET]

I have been on the 12 so I bought the Busa. 2 friends both have Ninja 12's inspite of my displeasure. Theya re good bikes just not as good as I like... Especially for high HP mods.

 

[Revlis]

My Busa Is Black...  It's Comfy, and it's fast.  It's low and quick.  It's Cool.  

I felt Perched ON TOP of the Big Kwacker, I feel "DOWN IN" my Busa.  Does that make sense?

I have seen and heard that the Kawi is faster... I have seen and heard the <s>12R</s> BUSA is faster... Damn... Messed that up

The new Kwacker is Black, Black is good...

There is a better aftermarket for the Busa...  Lots and Lots of parts, kits, etc.

It's funny, I am not in love with Suzuki, I think they suck for the most part, they have traditionaly been the Squid Brand of choice.  I have always been a Honda guy... reliable, well balanced, well built bikes, Go figure.  But When Suzuki painted the big beastie Black...  It was all over for me, I don't like Honda Red, Kawasaki Tennis ball green sucks, Yellow doesn't belong on a streetbike...  So basically I had been wanting a busa since 1999, but I just couldn't get my head around the colors...  Each year I was left with a "oh it's OK" feeling.. Until I saw the black...

Now I love my Busa, I love the ride, the power, the looks...  I may never part with her, but if Honda gets it right in 06 and comes through with the Blackbird and a V-5

 Things could get interesting.



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[DAB]

I think you should buy the 12r so that there's one more 'Busa out there for those of us that love them unconditionally....

 

[Aughtsix]

My Busa Is Black...  It's Comfy, and it's fast.  It's low and quick.  It's Cool.  

Absolutely.  I think the most gorgeous Busas are the '02 American LE and the '03 Canadian LE - both a beautiful black.  

I'm definitely not a fan of Suzuki's general paint schemes on the Busa - other than the LE - or what they've chosen to do with the stickers this year.  

What's really cheesing my fry is that Suzuki won't be releasing the LE until May while there's a gorgeous black ZX-12r not 20 miles from me, calling out my name, invading my dreams...

The bike that's here is almost always better than the bike that's not.

 I have seen and heard that the Kawi is faster... I have seen and heard the 12R is faster...  [/QUOTE]

Okay, okay, you have me convinced...  

There is a better aftermarket for the Busa...  Lots and Lots of parts, kits, etc. [/QUOTE]

Yeah, like NE said, the Busa is certainly the best choice when heavy performance modding comes into play.  Once the turbos come out the game is over.

 ...[clip]... but if Honda gets it right in 06 and comes through with the Blackbird and a V-5

 Things could get interesting. [/QUOTE]

As you've said elsewhere, I just can't see Honda sitting on their thumbs for much longer.  They really need to build that bike.

Steve



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