Leaning the bike...

[Revlis]

inappropriate and deleted.

Dang Cache...Laying the pimp hand down before I got a chance to see...


I'll get over it...

 

[cache]

dats right.

 

[Revlis]

joncal:
Secondly, I'd rather have that hang-off in reserve in case I blow the corner and need more lean. If you're already at full lean and hanging off, what do you do if you need to turn more? Guardrails don't taste good.

wouldn't you upset the chassis more by trying to lean over once the bike is already leaned?  Other than that I do agree with you

Yes, It's true you canl upset the bike a little bit by trying to hang off if already leaned, however, you'd only be doing that because you were already in trouble and at that point you're not going to make it much worse. Let me also try give you a little of my pea brained logic here.

1. If you are not normally leaning off, that means you are already cornering more slowly than the leaner. That also means that you have a safety margin the "hang off" leaner does NOT have.

2. If you are going a little slower, hanging off at that point is less upsetting to the bike than you might think.

Please keep in mind, I ALWAYS lean with the bike, and generally set my head and upper body over the mirror in the direction I am turning.

Generally, I like to practice for all sorts of contingencies. One of those things is going through turns on empty back roads and scootching my butt over to see how the bike reacts when I'm already in a turn. You will find that as you move over, you will straighten the bike up at the same time to retain the same turn radius.

I strongly recommend to all that they purchase the book "Sport Riding Techniques" by Nick Ienatsch. It is full of great advice from a pro. I've read ALL of the Keith Code books and found them very valuable, but I must say Nick's book is MUCH more geared to the street rider. It's a must have. Safety is really the theme of this book. Nick really gets into proper body position for street and track riders and the logic for the different approaches.

Johncal

Hey Johncal,
I have a couple of thoughts here. You are equating Hanging off with going faster. And not hanging off with having a margin of error available. Well I would say not really on both counts.

1. Hanging off = faster cornering or pushing the envelope. Maybe sometimes, but I have found that a lot of the folks out there, getting the knee down are doing it for style points and because it's what they have seen on TV.
My recommendation and usual riding style out in the country is to get my body moving around more based on stability and feel. A way of becoming a more active part of the ride and really exerting more control over the bike. Not for speed.

I should mention though that I am not saying I am hanging WAY off, just a couple of inches, enough to get my outside leg tight into the bike, my inside knee still stays pressed against the tank (Levi's don't make good sliders). What I have found is that by moving around on the bike as I begin braking for a corner I can really feel what is going on up front. I am not going any faster through the corners though, but I feel it gives me a much improved sense of what is going on. It makes a huge difference placing most of your weight on them pegs as apposed to sitting up high on the seat stationary. Not faster, just more planted, better able to feel what the bike is telling me. So basically your assertion "means that you have a safety margin the "hang off" leaner does NOT have. " Just doesn't really work here. I think I know what you are getting at but Hanging off doesn't nessassarily mean faster cornering.

2. Not hanging off = Margine of Error, "If you are not normally leaning off, that means you are already cornering more slowly than the leaner" I dunno, Like I mentioned above, I see a lot of knees sticking out there touching the tarmac when they really aren't going anywhere fast.

OK I think I have a point here. Bear with me, What I am getting at is that on the road, in the real world, hanging off or keeping yourself planted isn't allways a function of speed or velocity being carried through a corner so much as a stability/feel thing. If it feels good do it, if not don't.

I would recommend that you give it a shot though, find your favorite stretch of curves and run it like you normaly do, then run it again while concentrating on shifting weight to the outside peg, and moving your butt off the seat towards the inside. Try it for 10-15 corners and pay attention to the effect it has on the bike. It's not something I do all the time, but when I am out trying to do things just a little better, it has made a huge improvement in the amount of feedback I get from the bike.

 

[Ononewheel]

cache rejected me.

 

[Revlis]

cache rejected me.

Yeah! Your Cache Machines Lil Beeeaaatch Now!!!!

 

[Ononewheel]

cache rejected me.

Yeah!   Your Cache Machines Lil Beeeaaatch Now!!!!

I didn't think it was too inappropriate, in fact I thought it was dang nice of me to post it for you guys to enjoy. Revlis, I can pm it to you if you like.

Anyhow back to bikes,

BULLETTRAIN. Don't over look your suspension set up. That will help you corner safer and faster too. It is easier than you think. Make adjustments one at a time and take notes, so you know where you started, what worked and what didn't.

Check this link

http://www.gostar-racing.com/informa....20start

 

[Ononewheel]

The link I posted, I do not agree with the front fork preload theory. I would set it to 35-40 mm with you on it.

 

[BulletTrain]

Man! If I hadn't came home for lunch and checked the board I'da missed it, too! Dudes, ya'll missed it!!!

 

[BulletTrain]

cache rejected me.

Yeah!   Your Cache Machines Lil Beeeaaatch Now!!!!

I didn't think it was too inappropriate, in fact I thought it was dang nice of me to post it for you guys to enjoy.  Revlis, I can pm it to you if you like.

Anyhow back to bikes,

BULLETTRAIN.  Don't over look your suspension set up.  That will help you corner safer and faster too.  It is easier than you think.  Make adjustments one at a time and take notes, so you know where you started, what worked and what didn't.

Check this link

http://www.gostar-racing.com/informa....20start

Thanks for the link. He puts things in nice, simple terms that even I can understand.

 

[cache]

cache rejected me.

Yeah!   Your Cache Machines Lil Beeeaaatch Now!!!!

I didn't think it was too inappropriate, in fact I thought it was dang nice of me to post it for you guys to enjoy.  Revlis, I can pm it to you if you like.

Just a nice reminder......


if it is subject to ridicule by viewing over one's shoulder by the boss, spouse, children, etc... then it does not belong here.

call it what ya want, but don't call me late for beers.
carry on.

 

[BulletTrain]

cache rejected me.

Yeah!   Your Cache Machines Lil Beeeaaatch Now!!!!

I didn't think it was too inappropriate, in fact I thought it was dang nice of me to post it for you guys to enjoy.  Revlis, I can pm it to you if you like.

Just a nice reminder......    


if it is subject to ridicule by viewing over one's shoulder by the boss, spouse, children, etc... then it does not belong here.

call it what ya want, but don't call me late for beers.
carry on.

Good criteria. Should keep us all outta trouble. Well, while we're here at least.

 

[Big O]

Hero strips!! Did I mention EVERYONE in the intermediate level passed me once, and two guys twice?

The tire pressure in my pics was 34 psi, it was a HOT day. Normally I run 40 lbs and my tires are smooth with a 1/4" strip on the rear. No heroics.

Bullet, it won't take 5 years if you concentrate on what you want to do when you go out. Looking through the turn, relax and be smooth when shifting, accelerating, braking, leaning. Then go a little faster the next day. Don't push too hard.
Suspension set up will help a lot. I tweaked mine a bit this weekend an got better results.

 

[BulletTrain]

 Hero strips!!  Did I mention EVERYONE in the intermediate level passed me once, and two guys twice?

The tire pressure in my pics was 34 psi, it was a HOT day.  Normally I run 40 lbs and my tires are smooth with a 1/4" strip on the rear.  No heroics.

Bullet, it won't take 5 years if you concentrate on what you want to do when you go out.  Looking through the turn, relax and be smooth when shifting, accelerating, braking, leaning.  Then go a little faster the next day.  Don't push too hard.
Suspension set up will help a lot.  I tweaked mine a bit this weekend an got better results.

My tire pressure may have something to do with it. They're at 38 front and 40 rear. It was set there by the dealer and I didn't know what it should be, other than 42front/rear (!!) as recommended by the manual and sticker. So, I left it where they put it. I thought the tires felt a little stiff. Maybe I should try 36 front and rear?

Also, I need to try changing the setup, I guess. Big as my azz is, I'm sure the factory set-up is optomized for a lighter rider. I'm sure I'd benefit from a good tweaking.

 

[busahigg]

once the exhaust scrapes........your leaned too hard.....

 

[BulletTrain]

once the exhaust scrapes........your leaned too hard.....

Nice tip there, higg. I'll keep that in mind...

 

[SierraFlyer]

This is a great post. A number of points really do work. The part above about not hanging off too much is accurate. about all you need is half a butt maximum. The point is to get your body's CG over in the lean line not above it. That stabilizes the suspension and lets it do its job. If you lean too much or too little - both make the suspension work harder. I recently found that putting my weight all on my pegs and very little on the seat helps lower the whole CG and really smoothes out the suspension through a turn. No more fighting the bike - just let it do the work. But it won't work if your elbows are locked (A nasty habit I developed while cruising long distances). That inputs commands the bike doesn't want. Also leaning forward brings your upperbody down and forward - and the CG with it. BUSAHIGG is in exactly that position in the picture above and looks rock solid in the turn.

Summary of what I am tying to say is (mostly learned from Reg Pridmore)- put the balls of your feet on the pegs. put your weight on the feet as much as you feel comfortable. Keep your elbows bent always. Set up for the turn in advance by shifting your butt early and weight the inside peg more entering a turn. Try to minimize counter steering this way. Counter steering is quicker but can unbalance the suspension. Lean your shoulders into the turn with your weight on the pegs mostly. If your body's CG is in line with the bike's CG and the tire's contact patch, the bike will really feel solid under you. And you will automatically speed up as the confidence grows.

Another point this post brings up is to remember that the knee sliders are over an inch thick. You have to lean a lot farther in jeans to rub your knee than in leathers. The racers use the knee as a lean gauge. When the knee touches, they are getting close to the max lean angle and are running out of tire margin. They aren't doing it to look cool - even though it does.

OK I'm off the soap box now........

 

[BulletTrain]

Yeah, this thread has turned into quite a compilation of riding tips for me to absorb and try. I'm sure some will work for me while some won't. I've already learned a few things to watch for while riding, such as my body angle in reference to bike angle, and locking my arms. To this point I haven't really been conscious of these things. Gives me things to watch and improve if need be.

Thanks again to all...