Let's Play Analyze the Crash
- Thread starter Flicka
- Start date
newb
Registered
As for the horizon not changing, I agree he was possibly to abrupt on the brakes. But the lack of movement on or off the gas suggests that his suspension is really stiff. Which would causes sudden loss of grip over bumps on the brakes with cold tires.
Also, you can't see his body position. Is he far enough off the bike? He may have bad body positioning which further upset the chassis.
Too many variables. We will never know
Also, you can't see his body position. Is he far enough off the bike? He may have bad body positioning which further upset the chassis.
Too many variables. We will never know
fastblackblur
Registered
As previously noted, he appears to be riding in a novice group, which although he seems to be a bit faster than most of them I'm sure there was a reason he was in the group to begin with.
It looks like he lost the front very quickly, which to me says too much brake for his level of traction. Surface temp, tire pressure/type do contribute to your lvl of available traction but it is up to the rider use these factors to determine how much traction is available.
It looks like he lost the front very quickly, which to me says too much brake for his level of traction. Surface temp, tire pressure/type do contribute to your lvl of available traction but it is up to the rider use these factors to determine how much traction is available.
superbeagle
Registered
Tuff, just asking if you get into a corner to fast what is your best option?
Tuf,
What are some good, preferably non-destructive ways to practice braking on the street?
Let's back up a bit and give some thought to the common denominator of the reason one may be approaching a corner with to much speed. We hear this a lot "I crashed because I found myself to hot in the corner". The real reason we find ourselves with excessive speed once we are into the corner is due to a ton of straight away speed. The bikes we ride today are so blazing fast and they build so much speed so quickly the rider usually finds him/herself unable to shed the required speed for the corner and the entrance is blown. Straight speed is easy and borring. The fun of it is executing a perfectly timmed apex within inches, not feet! I usually restrict myself to 75MPH on the straights when my friends and I are playing in the twisties and I absolutely never hit the corners at 100%. 60 maybe 70% is the max.
However, I do teach this very cornering exercise. If you find yourself in a corner with to much speed, never give up on the brakes. Always enter the corner with one or two fingers over the brake lever and practice applying just enough pressure to activate the brake light no matter what the speed before you tip-in. If you make a habbit of this exercise you will always be in a possition to gently apply the brake as you continue increasing the lean angle while pushing the bike as far away from you as possible (Of course you must have your butt off the bike to the inside to accomplish this).
In short, stand the bike up as best you can and continue to scrub speed. As the speed decreases so will the radius. As the radius tightens and the speed decreases you can stand the bike up. As you decrease lean angle you can progressively add more brake until you are comfortable with the speed. We use the "100 points of traction" example as a referance. For instance, if you are using 60% of the traction available for lean angle that leaves 40% for braking. Never give up on the brakes, look where you want to go instead of where you think you are going and have faith that your bike is better at cornering than you are, this is your best chance of getting through the corner unscathed.
If we refrain from big speed on the straights we reduce the chance of finding ourselves too hot in a corner to almost nil.
Radius = speed and speed = radius!
This is how I work with riders on improving their braking:
If it's at the track I use cones for markers. If you don't have access to a track you can use public roads. Just be sure to pick a deserted road or street with little to no traffic.
Set yourself a brake marker. It can be a stick, stone, your wife or a mark on the asphalt. Make sure your tires are warm, not worn out and there is no sand, leaves, contaminant etc. that may affect traction. Start out at 40 mph. After a quick look/see in the mirrors to make sure there are no vehicles behind you apply the brakes at the marker and see how far it takes to stop. Mark the stop point as well. Now you have two reference points. Repeat this exercise multiple times until you see a visual improvement. You can increase the speed as you are more comfortable with braking.
I tell everybody, if you enjoy riding at 120mph you best practice braking at 120mph. Cause if you don't you will be totally lost when the boogieman leaps out of the bushes.
When you begin practicing a braking routine, remember to treat the brake lever like a rheostat not an on off switch. Squeeze the lever, don't grab at it. Squeeze it with athority but don't get agressive until you feel the forks compress. Once the forks are compressed, it you continue to squeeze it's harder than you think to lock the tire. With the weight transferred forward the tire will actually start talking to you when its reaching lock up. It will actually cry. But,,,,,,,,, if you have your tunes pounding in your helmet you probably won't hear it before it's to late.
Keep your bike straight up and down with your knees locked into the tank. Leave your arms slightly bent, do not lock them. Be alert! If the tire does lock release the lever quickly. If you have a grip on the tank with your knees and the bike is not leaned if you are not asleep at the controls by releasing the lever quickly, it's no big deal.
If the folks that ride regularly at 120mph on their Sunday rides would perform this exercise, once they realized how much time and distance it actually took them to stop,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,, they would most likely rethink their Sunday speeds.
Every rider should practice some sort of braking exercise on every ride. I do, even when it's wet!
Thanks,
That's good advice and I'll get working on it.
That's good advice and I'll get working on it.
fastblackblur
Registered
Every rider should practice some sort of braking exercise on every ride. I do, even when it's wet!
Especially when it's wet!
I found this article and accompaning video today thought it was very informative...
---------------
Throttle Blipping for Downshifts
Throttle
Blipping for Downshifts
Thursday,
15 September 2011 00:00 | Written
by K3 Chris Onwiler
Can you multitask?
The corner is coming up fast. You’re doing 150 mph and need to brake down to
60 or so before turning in. Your bike is in fifth gear but needs to be in
second very soon. Are you a good throttle blipper?
Two fingers on the brake leave your other two fingers and the thumb for
throttle blipping.
A Lost Art
If there’s anything that can breed confusion and fear in a Novice
classroom, it’s the subject of throttle blipping. Beginners aren’t the only
ones with blip-phobia. It seems that approximately half the riders at any given
trackday do not possess this vitally important skill. In a world where stick
shift automobiles are increasingly rare, the ability to rev-match downshifts is
becoming a lost art among drivers. Thankfully, sportbikes still come with
manual transmissions! This presents a problem, however. Motorcycle riders need
to be able to rev-match their downshifts but most have never done so previously
in a car, which gives them no frame of reference to apply to a bike.
Getting it wrong
Let’s say you’re cruising down the straight at casual 100mph in fourth gear.
Ahead is a 50 mph corner that you’ll need to take in second. You pull in the
clutch, stomp down two gears and let go of the lever. What happens next?
AAAAAAAHHHH!!! The revs go to the moon, the back tire locks up and you likely
get tossed from the saddle. While it would be the least of your worries at this
point, you’ve probably over-revved the motor as well, causing expensive
damage.
Slow down first
The first rule of downshifting is that you must never select a gear with a redline speed which is slower than you are currently travelling. Doing so will allow the rear tire to turn your engine faster than it can safely go. Many riders think that since their machine has a rev limiter, it cannot be over-spun; however this is not true. The rev limiter controls engine speed by placing an rpm ceiling on ignition events. If the rear tire is travelling 80 mph when you select a gear that redlines at 60 mph and let out the clutch, the wheel speed will spin the motor far past its danger zone even as the rev limiter shuts down the spark plugs in a vain attempt to stop the destruction.
The trick to surviving the above scenario is to first slow the bike down
enough that its speed falls within the range safely possible for the chosen
lower gear, at which point you can then accomplish your downshifts. In other
words, slow down before you downshift.
Rev Matching
You’ve slowed from 100 mph down to 60mph. You know from past experience that
your bike will safely go sixty in second gear, so you pull in the clutch and
click down twice from fourth, then let out the lever. AAAAAAAHHHH!!! While you
were slowing down, your engine’s rpm dropped to near idle. When you let out the
clutch, the road speed of the rear wheel instantly punched the revs to 10,000,
momentarily skidding the rear tire and giving the whole bike a mighty jerk.
Hopefully, you didn’t crash as a result. Ten grand was a safe rpm for the lower
gear but you should have rev matched!
Rev matching is simply a matter of using the throttle to spin up the motor to
an rpm that matches road speed before you let out the clutch after a downshift.
If the revs have dropped to 5K under braking and what you need to match the
downshift is 10k, you get the extra rpm with a sharp flick of the wrist, which
you do just before you let the clutch out. Mind you, this does not mean that
you roll on and hold the throttle; instead you snap it open momentarily and snap
it closed again just as fast, “goosing†the engine into a quick rpm increase.
This action is referred to as “Throttle Blipping.â€
It takes practice to become a good throttle blipper; however, it isn’t as
difficult as most people think. Every rider alive has revved up the engine by
goosing his or her throttle at least a million times already, just because it
sounds cool! Believe it or not, applying that blipping action to downshifts is
less precise than you might think. Your “goose†can be a bit too soft or too
hard, as long as it is timed correctly with the release of the clutch lever.
Just be sure that the rpms are on the rise as you let out the clutch and things
will usually sort themselves out nicely. If you currently do not rev match at
all, literally any attempt you make to do so will be an improvement.
Slipper Clutches
Let’s get one thing straight: A slipper clutch is intended to assist
throttle blipping, not replace it. If any attempt at blipping is an improvement
on a regular bike, any attempt made aboard a machine equipped with a slipper
will yield near-professional results. Without blipping, a slipper clutch is
simply a semi-effective rev limiter that somewhat protects the motor at the cost
of chassis stability and control; which are both greatly compromised by the
resulting rear wheel drag. Those who just bang off downshifts while expecting
the slipper clutch to take care of business are wasting time, wearing out parts
and giving up a great deal of accuracy at corner entry.
Won’t blipping take away my engine braking?
Yes, that’s the whole point!
Your engine is a very expensive and woefully inadequate brake, not to mention
that it is slowing down the wrong end of the motorcycle. Your brakes work far
better and are pinpoint accurate. The goal of throttle blipping is to have you
in the right gear at the right rpm at the right time, perched aboard a composed
machine that is ready to negotiate the corner. Without it you arrive at turn in
with disturbed suspension and a much better chance of crashing.
The Great Dilemma
You need to brake for that fast-approaching corner but must also downshift,
which requires blipping the throttle. The brakes and throttle are on the same
handlebar! How do you work both at the same time? AAAAAAAHHHH!!!
The Technique
Modern sportbikes have great brakes. Two fingers are all you’ll need for any
level of braking. That leaves your ring and pinkie fingers to combine with the
thumb in controlling the throttle. Yes, we’re talking about blipping the
throttle while simultaneously squeezing the brakes and if you think that this is
a tricky maneuver, you’re absolutely right. The technique is to maintain a
squeeze on the brake lever while blipping by allowing your fingers to roll over
the lever without releasing it. So how do you learn this skill?
Drilling
Since you’ll be performing several actions at once when downshifting, why not
learn them one at a time?
1) Blipping while braking: You can begin learning this technique while
sitting still with the engine off. Practice maintaining an even tension on the
brake lever while blipping the throttle.
2) Rev Matching: We recommend finding an open area and learning how to rev
match. If you have plenty of room, there will be no need for brakes so you can
just concentrate on accurately matching engine speed to each lower gear. From 50
mph, downshift one gear at a time from sixth to second. The sequence for each
downshift is to pull in the clutch lever, simultaneously click the bike into the
next lower gear while giving the throttle a blip, then let out the clutch. Let
engine braking slow you a bit after each downshift. Since your bike will likely
do 50 mph in second with ease, these will be very small and essentially
non-critical blips. Repeat this process until you’re smooth. Next, do the same
drill, again starting at 50 mph but in fifth gear instead of sixth. The blips
will need to be larger and will become more critical. Having mastered that, try
it starting from fourth gear, then third gear. Each time you begin the drill in
a lower gear, the amount of blip required will get larger and technique will
become more critical. The more precise you become, the better the process will
sound and feel. As your skills improve, you might even begin to enjoy this
drill!
3) Blipping while braking with no downshifts: Once you have rev
matching down, take it out of the equation. From 50 mph, try pulling in the
clutch lever and using two fingers to gently brake as you simultaneously blip
the throttle. Since the clutch is in and you’re not downshifting, it won’t
matter how accurate your blips are. The goal here is to maintain a steady rate
of deceleration while managing to simultaneously blip the throttle.
4) Tying it all together: When you’ve achieved the ability to blip while
maintaining smooth braking, combine it with the downshifting. Now that you have
a finished skill set, learned at low speeds in an open area, you can take it to
the track and begin to experiment with it at speed.
Since one good video
clip is worth a thousand words, we have provided one, courtesy of GoPro.
This bike is travelling approximately 140 mph in fourth gear at the end of the
straightaway. The brakes are applied first, to slow the bike enough for safe
downshifting. With the brakes still squeezed, two quick downshifts are
applied. This is timed so that the throttle can immediately be rolled on after
the last downshift to accelerate the bike through the corner.
Conclusion
The ability to rev match downshifts while simultaneously braking is what
separates the fast folk from those who are getting in the way. For riders lucky
enough to have arrived at their first trackday already in possession of this
skill, life is good! If you’re already a racetrack addict and have yet to learn
proper downshifting, you have some work to do. The good news is that no matter
how hard you think this might be, virtually any rider can become a proficient
downshifter by breaking the procedure into its individual steps and learning
them one at a time. When you finally put it all together, you’ll feel a real
sense of accomplishment.
[video]http://player.vimeo.com/video/28492071?title=0&byline=0&portrait=0&a utoplay=1[/video]
---------------
Throttle Blipping for Downshifts
Throttle
Blipping for Downshifts
Thursday,
15 September 2011 00:00 | Written
by K3 Chris Onwiler
Can you multitask?
The corner is coming up fast. You’re doing 150 mph and need to brake down to
60 or so before turning in. Your bike is in fifth gear but needs to be in
second very soon. Are you a good throttle blipper?
Two fingers on the brake leave your other two fingers and the thumb for
throttle blipping.
A Lost Art
If there’s anything that can breed confusion and fear in a Novice
classroom, it’s the subject of throttle blipping. Beginners aren’t the only
ones with blip-phobia. It seems that approximately half the riders at any given
trackday do not possess this vitally important skill. In a world where stick
shift automobiles are increasingly rare, the ability to rev-match downshifts is
becoming a lost art among drivers. Thankfully, sportbikes still come with
manual transmissions! This presents a problem, however. Motorcycle riders need
to be able to rev-match their downshifts but most have never done so previously
in a car, which gives them no frame of reference to apply to a bike.
Getting it wrong
Let’s say you’re cruising down the straight at casual 100mph in fourth gear.
Ahead is a 50 mph corner that you’ll need to take in second. You pull in the
clutch, stomp down two gears and let go of the lever. What happens next?
AAAAAAAHHHH!!! The revs go to the moon, the back tire locks up and you likely
get tossed from the saddle. While it would be the least of your worries at this
point, you’ve probably over-revved the motor as well, causing expensive
damage.
Slow down first
The first rule of downshifting is that you must never select a gear with a redline speed which is slower than you are currently travelling. Doing so will allow the rear tire to turn your engine faster than it can safely go. Many riders think that since their machine has a rev limiter, it cannot be over-spun; however this is not true. The rev limiter controls engine speed by placing an rpm ceiling on ignition events. If the rear tire is travelling 80 mph when you select a gear that redlines at 60 mph and let out the clutch, the wheel speed will spin the motor far past its danger zone even as the rev limiter shuts down the spark plugs in a vain attempt to stop the destruction.
The trick to surviving the above scenario is to first slow the bike down
enough that its speed falls within the range safely possible for the chosen
lower gear, at which point you can then accomplish your downshifts. In other
words, slow down before you downshift.
Rev Matching
You’ve slowed from 100 mph down to 60mph. You know from past experience that
your bike will safely go sixty in second gear, so you pull in the clutch and
click down twice from fourth, then let out the lever. AAAAAAAHHHH!!! While you
were slowing down, your engine’s rpm dropped to near idle. When you let out the
clutch, the road speed of the rear wheel instantly punched the revs to 10,000,
momentarily skidding the rear tire and giving the whole bike a mighty jerk.
Hopefully, you didn’t crash as a result. Ten grand was a safe rpm for the lower
gear but you should have rev matched!
Rev matching is simply a matter of using the throttle to spin up the motor to
an rpm that matches road speed before you let out the clutch after a downshift.
If the revs have dropped to 5K under braking and what you need to match the
downshift is 10k, you get the extra rpm with a sharp flick of the wrist, which
you do just before you let the clutch out. Mind you, this does not mean that
you roll on and hold the throttle; instead you snap it open momentarily and snap
it closed again just as fast, “goosing†the engine into a quick rpm increase.
This action is referred to as “Throttle Blipping.â€
It takes practice to become a good throttle blipper; however, it isn’t as
difficult as most people think. Every rider alive has revved up the engine by
goosing his or her throttle at least a million times already, just because it
sounds cool! Believe it or not, applying that blipping action to downshifts is
less precise than you might think. Your “goose†can be a bit too soft or too
hard, as long as it is timed correctly with the release of the clutch lever.
Just be sure that the rpms are on the rise as you let out the clutch and things
will usually sort themselves out nicely. If you currently do not rev match at
all, literally any attempt you make to do so will be an improvement.
Slipper Clutches
Let’s get one thing straight: A slipper clutch is intended to assist
throttle blipping, not replace it. If any attempt at blipping is an improvement
on a regular bike, any attempt made aboard a machine equipped with a slipper
will yield near-professional results. Without blipping, a slipper clutch is
simply a semi-effective rev limiter that somewhat protects the motor at the cost
of chassis stability and control; which are both greatly compromised by the
resulting rear wheel drag. Those who just bang off downshifts while expecting
the slipper clutch to take care of business are wasting time, wearing out parts
and giving up a great deal of accuracy at corner entry.
Won’t blipping take away my engine braking?
Yes, that’s the whole point!
Your engine is a very expensive and woefully inadequate brake, not to mention
that it is slowing down the wrong end of the motorcycle. Your brakes work far
better and are pinpoint accurate. The goal of throttle blipping is to have you
in the right gear at the right rpm at the right time, perched aboard a composed
machine that is ready to negotiate the corner. Without it you arrive at turn in
with disturbed suspension and a much better chance of crashing.
The Great Dilemma
You need to brake for that fast-approaching corner but must also downshift,
which requires blipping the throttle. The brakes and throttle are on the same
handlebar! How do you work both at the same time? AAAAAAAHHHH!!!
The Technique
Modern sportbikes have great brakes. Two fingers are all you’ll need for any
level of braking. That leaves your ring and pinkie fingers to combine with the
thumb in controlling the throttle. Yes, we’re talking about blipping the
throttle while simultaneously squeezing the brakes and if you think that this is
a tricky maneuver, you’re absolutely right. The technique is to maintain a
squeeze on the brake lever while blipping by allowing your fingers to roll over
the lever without releasing it. So how do you learn this skill?
Drilling
Since you’ll be performing several actions at once when downshifting, why not
learn them one at a time?
1) Blipping while braking: You can begin learning this technique while
sitting still with the engine off. Practice maintaining an even tension on the
brake lever while blipping the throttle.
2) Rev Matching: We recommend finding an open area and learning how to rev
match. If you have plenty of room, there will be no need for brakes so you can
just concentrate on accurately matching engine speed to each lower gear. From 50
mph, downshift one gear at a time from sixth to second. The sequence for each
downshift is to pull in the clutch lever, simultaneously click the bike into the
next lower gear while giving the throttle a blip, then let out the clutch. Let
engine braking slow you a bit after each downshift. Since your bike will likely
do 50 mph in second with ease, these will be very small and essentially
non-critical blips. Repeat this process until you’re smooth. Next, do the same
drill, again starting at 50 mph but in fifth gear instead of sixth. The blips
will need to be larger and will become more critical. Having mastered that, try
it starting from fourth gear, then third gear. Each time you begin the drill in
a lower gear, the amount of blip required will get larger and technique will
become more critical. The more precise you become, the better the process will
sound and feel. As your skills improve, you might even begin to enjoy this
drill!
3) Blipping while braking with no downshifts: Once you have rev
matching down, take it out of the equation. From 50 mph, try pulling in the
clutch lever and using two fingers to gently brake as you simultaneously blip
the throttle. Since the clutch is in and you’re not downshifting, it won’t
matter how accurate your blips are. The goal here is to maintain a steady rate
of deceleration while managing to simultaneously blip the throttle.
4) Tying it all together: When you’ve achieved the ability to blip while
maintaining smooth braking, combine it with the downshifting. Now that you have
a finished skill set, learned at low speeds in an open area, you can take it to
the track and begin to experiment with it at speed.
Since one good video
clip is worth a thousand words, we have provided one, courtesy of GoPro.
This bike is travelling approximately 140 mph in fourth gear at the end of the
straightaway. The brakes are applied first, to slow the bike enough for safe
downshifting. With the brakes still squeezed, two quick downshifts are
applied. This is timed so that the throttle can immediately be rolled on after
the last downshift to accelerate the bike through the corner.
Conclusion
The ability to rev match downshifts while simultaneously braking is what
separates the fast folk from those who are getting in the way. For riders lucky
enough to have arrived at their first trackday already in possession of this
skill, life is good! If you’re already a racetrack addict and have yet to learn
proper downshifting, you have some work to do. The good news is that no matter
how hard you think this might be, virtually any rider can become a proficient
downshifter by breaking the procedure into its individual steps and learning
them one at a time. When you finally put it all together, you’ll feel a real
sense of accomplishment.
[video]http://player.vimeo.com/video/28492071?title=0&byline=0&portrait=0&a utoplay=1[/video]
Go for it.
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