more 12 stuff
- Thread starter sherm
- Start date
OB_c.dolan
Registered
It's interesting how Kawasaki made such a big deal about the aerodynamics. Small tabs, on fork legs, were supposed to be "trick" to smooth airflow around caliper ? Busa fr. fender does same thing around this area, only better. With all this attention to detail, they still have the front turn signals flapping in the breeze, and the mirriors are less than inspirational. If a person truly wants a ZX 12, it may be better to wait for the hype to cool down, especially with the MSRP being $1000 ~ $1500 higher than the Busa. That's how I got a blue 99 R-1, for less than MSRP, back in July. I have to admit that I did jump quick on the copper Busa. Money down Nov. 98, got first one in San Diego, early April, $ 12,000 out the door. Dealers jacked up price $ 1000 ~ $1500, afterward. ( Just my 2 1/2 cents )
[This message has been edited by c.dolan (edited 17 December 1999).]
[This message has been edited by c.dolan (edited 17 December 1999).]
G
Guest
its amazing tinhead how you can put every man woman and child that rides a kawasaki in the excact same catagory, im impressed-not !
your good mate packa
proud responsible kawasaki rider
p.s. we have a saying here in australia
UP YOURS !!
thin head
your good mate packa
proud responsible kawasaki rider
p.s. we have a saying here in australia
UP YOURS !!
thin head
G
Guest
you mention ambulances thin head
i have had the unfortunate experience of laying on the groud waiting for one to show up i then proceeded to beg them to put me to sleep whilst suffering from a bad case of hyperventerlation and all over body pain the likes of which can never be explained but only experienced. the best they could do was pump 4 viles of valium into me all of which had no effect
let me personally assure you thin head that requiring the assistance of a ambulance after a motorbike crash is something which neither hayabusa riders or zx12r riders would ever want to experience.
you should not even joke about such things
i was hit by an 89 year old driver who was licenced to drive til he was 99
i was doing 60 k`s at the time
i was not rideing recklessly as per my thinhead catagory.
you good mate packa
once again thinhead
UP YOURS !!
i have had the unfortunate experience of laying on the groud waiting for one to show up i then proceeded to beg them to put me to sleep whilst suffering from a bad case of hyperventerlation and all over body pain the likes of which can never be explained but only experienced. the best they could do was pump 4 viles of valium into me all of which had no effect
let me personally assure you thin head that requiring the assistance of a ambulance after a motorbike crash is something which neither hayabusa riders or zx12r riders would ever want to experience.
you should not even joke about such things
i was hit by an 89 year old driver who was licenced to drive til he was 99
i was doing 60 k`s at the time
i was not rideing recklessly as per my thinhead catagory.
you good mate packa
once again thinhead
UP YOURS !!
No offense taken. I never implied Kawi's fins were "add ons". Look at any modern large jet (airliner). See the fins on the engines, one on each side? They prevent turbulent air coming off the cowling from disrupting the very critical top layer of air over the wing. They have a purpose, and for their size, greatly reduce drag. In aero, the seemingly smallest things tend to make big differences. But it is because I looked at the whole picture that my prediction is what it is. The bikes frontal area is very similar to a ZX-9's, although moderately cleaner. It would take a ZX-9 201 rear wheel hp to do 200mph. My ROUGH guess is the 12 will need 175rwhp or so, which it may achieve with the well placed ram air inlet.
Also, I was using the real definition of "revolutionary", not the much over-used version.
In the end, I hope I'm wrong. I'd love nothing more than a new, clearly higher standard, competition improves the breed.
Also, I was using the real definition of "revolutionary", not the much over-used version.
In the end, I hope I'm wrong. I'd love nothing more than a new, clearly higher standard, competition improves the breed.
After reading everyone's posts, I'll say this.
Everyone has a right to have an opinion, now here's mine.
I think it's foolish to think that Kawasaki held their bike back for (what) a year, only to release it to be slower than a Busa. I expect it to be at least as fast if not the fastest bike to date.
Rickey Gadaon said over on Dragbike dot com that it is not true you need to drop the engine out of the bike to change the plugs.
What if someone did made a bike that you needed to drop the engine to change the plugs, but it went twenty miles an hour faster than any other bike ever made? Are you saying you wouldn't buy it? Pesonally I wouldn't care because as I blitzed by someone on the second fastest bike ever made, he wouldn't think to himself, "yeah he might be faster but those plug changes....."
Come on, look at cars and minivans, big (V6) engines in small packages. Ever try to replace anything on the back of a V6 front wheel drive? I've often thought about dropping the engine just to make it easier.
Mark my words, someday as manufactures focus more and more on lighter, shorter, narrower bikes there will be a bike "born" that needs special attention because of it's big engine and little engine comartment. By then we will have mechanically evolved to the point where the extra effort is acceptable.
Everyone has a right to have an opinion, now here's mine.
I think it's foolish to think that Kawasaki held their bike back for (what) a year, only to release it to be slower than a Busa. I expect it to be at least as fast if not the fastest bike to date.
Rickey Gadaon said over on Dragbike dot com that it is not true you need to drop the engine out of the bike to change the plugs.
What if someone did made a bike that you needed to drop the engine to change the plugs, but it went twenty miles an hour faster than any other bike ever made? Are you saying you wouldn't buy it? Pesonally I wouldn't care because as I blitzed by someone on the second fastest bike ever made, he wouldn't think to himself, "yeah he might be faster but those plug changes....."
Come on, look at cars and minivans, big (V6) engines in small packages. Ever try to replace anything on the back of a V6 front wheel drive? I've often thought about dropping the engine just to make it easier.
Mark my words, someday as manufactures focus more and more on lighter, shorter, narrower bikes there will be a bike "born" that needs special attention because of it's big engine and little engine comartment. By then we will have mechanically evolved to the point where the extra effort is acceptable.
OB_gsx1300rguy
Registered
20 mph.....maybe ,a very small maybe.5 mph and $1000 to $2000 ...NO. My previous bike was a 95ZX9R .I bought that bike because it was a great all around sport bike.As I got older I wanted more power and I liked the looks of the Busa.I didn`t by it because it was the latest and greatest,if that was the case I would have had a zx11 then a blackbird then the Busa.Now that I have modified the bike and it`s paid off I have no plans to trade it in for a few mph more.As far as maintenance goes it really looks like the 12 is going to be a pain in the A,S,S.If you really think you can pull the cams to do a valve adjustment without droping the 12`s motor your crazy,plugs maybe with a multitude of swivels but like I said ...whatever.
[This message has been edited by gsx1300rguy (edited 18 December 1999).]
[This message has been edited by gsx1300rguy (edited 18 December 1999).]
G
Guest
thanks for your support wrong lane
thin head
up yours !!
your good mate
packa
thin head
up yours !!
your good mate
packa
wow! this turned into a cool post!!
Redelk you actaully have it backwards with the NASCAR analogy, they want MORE downforce on the highspeed ovals, because thats when they need it. Aerodynamics on a road coarse arent all that important because they never really see a high top speed.
another thing to think about is rider postion.. the frontal area of a bike HAS to include the rider, no bike that I have seen will take the rider 100% out of the wind. so the frontal area will differ with every rider.
one thing I like about the Busa is the tail. the way that "solo seat" fairing comes up provides a much smoother transition from the riders back to the bike, and I am surprised the 12R doesnt have that.
I dont have a Busa but I would LOVE to get one, but college aint cheap!
Redelk you actaully have it backwards with the NASCAR analogy, they want MORE downforce on the highspeed ovals, because thats when they need it. Aerodynamics on a road coarse arent all that important because they never really see a high top speed.
another thing to think about is rider postion.. the frontal area of a bike HAS to include the rider, no bike that I have seen will take the rider 100% out of the wind. so the frontal area will differ with every rider.
one thing I like about the Busa is the tail. the way that "solo seat" fairing comes up provides a much smoother transition from the riders back to the bike, and I am surprised the 12R doesnt have that.
I dont have a Busa but I would LOVE to get one, but college aint cheap!
Here's how the numbers break down from the Khi site which list the 12's specs, including gear ratios.
10,500 rpm (peak hp) translates into 188.45 mph without tire growth, 191.27 mph with 1.5% growth.
Kawi's engines usually make 98% of peak power 500rpm past peak. This translates into 197.42 mph no growth, 200.38 mph with tire growth. Top speed appears to be engineered for these speeds.
khi.co.ip/mcycle/model_info/00zx12r/sp_e.html is the referenced site.
[This message has been edited by Rick (edited 18 December 1999).]
10,500 rpm (peak hp) translates into 188.45 mph without tire growth, 191.27 mph with 1.5% growth.
Kawi's engines usually make 98% of peak power 500rpm past peak. This translates into 197.42 mph no growth, 200.38 mph with tire growth. Top speed appears to be engineered for these speeds.
khi.co.ip/mcycle/model_info/00zx12r/sp_e.html is the referenced site.
[This message has been edited by Rick (edited 18 December 1999).]
Thank you, Rick. I shouldn't have implied that you made comments regarding wings, intakes and such... mea culpa. I think you'll agree, we all are just speculating with what is "known" aerodynamic facts. Until proven differently, the "known" is all we can judge by.
1300guy - I'd heard the same, about the "spark plug thing". The "long life spark plugs" mentioned in one of the sales brochures, wasn't very reasuring in addressing this question.
Since I have long been first in line, at my dealer, for the 12 and they are under instruction to NOT uncrate it till I'm there, I promise you, this will be one of the first things I look into.
I've always done my own service work on my '97 7R (w\65K miles on it). This is one of many, servicing questions I have. I have also heard that it was going to be easier then my 7R. No one knows if there will be "plug access doors" or some other means to make a simple plug change... simple.
1300guy - I'd heard the same, about the "spark plug thing". The "long life spark plugs" mentioned in one of the sales brochures, wasn't very reasuring in addressing this question.
Since I have long been first in line, at my dealer, for the 12 and they are under instruction to NOT uncrate it till I'm there, I promise you, this will be one of the first things I look into.
I've always done my own service work on my '97 7R (w\65K miles on it). This is one of many, servicing questions I have. I have also heard that it was going to be easier then my 7R. No one knows if there will be "plug access doors" or some other means to make a simple plug change... simple.
OB_Wronglane
Registered
I stand by Packas side in his comments made toward Tinhead.
"The cops, wreckers and ambulances will be so busy with new, proud zx12 owners that Hayabusas will be as unhassled as Honda Pacific Coasts. I hope Kawasaki sells a MILLION of the contraptions."
Tinhead>>>>>The statement you made above is brainless! Why in the world would you wish injury or worse,death to anyone,especially a fellow biker??!! I have been down four times in twenty years of riding and not because I was riding over my head.Twice,I hit a dear and twice I was going around sharp curves and I hit oil or diesel fuel on the other two occasions.I was lucky enough to walk away.A friend of mine hit a deer on the highway at night and wasn't found until the next morning.He broke many bones,didn't work for six months and never rode again.Another friend was stopped at a light and was hit from behind.Two kids were racing when one crashed into the car behind my friend(estimated at about 70 mph) who then hit his bike.He ended up with a broken back and didn't work for eight months.Have you ever driven by an accident where a fellow biker was lying on the ground,motionless? I have and let me tell you this.....Your heart will hit your stomache!I bet you never had someone close to you involved in an accident and I hope you never do.
To say people on Kawasakis are more wreckless than people on other brands is ridiculous.I ride with all kinds of people on different brands of bikes and they all do stupid things at times.The 1300R is a great bike as are Kawasakis,Yamahas,and Hondas!Swallow your pride,get off your high horse,come down to earth,and ride with the rest of us as we are all brothers and we should not treat each other as enemies because we choose a different model to ride.For your mindless statement,you should be ***** slapped by FalconCop!
"The cops, wreckers and ambulances will be so busy with new, proud zx12 owners that Hayabusas will be as unhassled as Honda Pacific Coasts. I hope Kawasaki sells a MILLION of the contraptions."
Tinhead>>>>>The statement you made above is brainless! Why in the world would you wish injury or worse,death to anyone,especially a fellow biker??!! I have been down four times in twenty years of riding and not because I was riding over my head.Twice,I hit a dear and twice I was going around sharp curves and I hit oil or diesel fuel on the other two occasions.I was lucky enough to walk away.A friend of mine hit a deer on the highway at night and wasn't found until the next morning.He broke many bones,didn't work for six months and never rode again.Another friend was stopped at a light and was hit from behind.Two kids were racing when one crashed into the car behind my friend(estimated at about 70 mph) who then hit his bike.He ended up with a broken back and didn't work for eight months.Have you ever driven by an accident where a fellow biker was lying on the ground,motionless? I have and let me tell you this.....Your heart will hit your stomache!I bet you never had someone close to you involved in an accident and I hope you never do.
To say people on Kawasakis are more wreckless than people on other brands is ridiculous.I ride with all kinds of people on different brands of bikes and they all do stupid things at times.The 1300R is a great bike as are Kawasakis,Yamahas,and Hondas!Swallow your pride,get off your high horse,come down to earth,and ride with the rest of us as we are all brothers and we should not treat each other as enemies because we choose a different model to ride.For your mindless statement,you should be ***** slapped by FalconCop!
OB_tinhead
Registered
FLAMED AT LAST, FLAMED AT LAST, LAWDY LAWDY!!
Looking back at what I wrote (hastily) yes it does look insensitive. And I am a rude crude mofo. Yes I have had bike related ambulance trips and hospital stays. I deserved worse than I got but there's a rumor God watches out for fools and drunks and I had double coverage both times.
The kernel of truth in the insensitive remarks is that the donut gobbling cops flock (like buzzards more than falcons) to ambulance sites. Whether cage or bike, I am shocked and saddened when I ride by, then as soon as I'm out of sight RIDE LIKE THERE ARE NO COPS because there aren't, they are all gathered around the ambulance being shocked and saddened. In tragedy there is opportunity!
Looking back at what I wrote (hastily) yes it does look insensitive. And I am a rude crude mofo. Yes I have had bike related ambulance trips and hospital stays. I deserved worse than I got but there's a rumor God watches out for fools and drunks and I had double coverage both times.
The kernel of truth in the insensitive remarks is that the donut gobbling cops flock (like buzzards more than falcons) to ambulance sites. Whether cage or bike, I am shocked and saddened when I ride by, then as soon as I'm out of sight RIDE LIKE THERE ARE NO COPS because there aren't, they are all gathered around the ambulance being shocked and saddened. In tragedy there is opportunity!
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