I don't think you need to add static. Just removing the delay springs will let the clutch lock at pretty low RPMs. Leave the weight on the arms. It's a pretty quick operation, certainly faster than changing clutches.
MTC, Hays or Gann
- Thread starter 202mphbusa
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Bit harsh here tbh. I don’t need a Penske triple adjustable technically either. But I want the best. Not a flex. Nothing wrong with putting the best even if you don’t need it right now. Never know what you may want in the future.
TonyM995
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It was a bit harsh and I’ve since chilled out. On that day I was just frustrated from comments in another thread and decided to go on a rampage. We are all good now so that’s cool.
To your point, a lot of people have told me I don’t need a Fueltech.
I feel a triple adjustable would be a big benefit in getting power to the ground. As a road racer I value suspension a lot so I’m bias there.
To your point, a lot of people have told me I don’t need a Fueltech.
I feel a triple adjustable would be a big benefit in getting power to the ground. As a road racer I value suspension a lot so I’m bias there.
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I’m learning how important the suspension is in a bike. We had a video on here of a kid on a 330hp bike and it was just about undrivable in its stock form. SWB and no suspension setup. Plus I wanted it. Lol
TonyM995
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I’m having a change of heart with this and am now heavily leaning toward Hays. They released a new ‘Convertible’ clutch at the end of 2022. Looking in the comments of this video, Tim Hays says you can use it on the street. Obviously both mtc and Hays can be setup for street but it’s nice that he’s not afraid to say that.
I found this guide and MTC says the static springs are just to get the bike to the line. @ColdBusa comments perfectly reflect the MTC tuning guide, nice work.
TPS Fab stated he’s using static springs to get him through the 60’. That’s not what mtc says the static springs are for. In this video he shows the washer in the middle broke on his bike. My point is you can use these clutches however you want and it’s up to the user to find the setup that works for them. Maybe I’ll screw up and break something along the way.
I prefer to more closely follow the manufacture instructions on use and tuning. Both use static and dynamic/delay springs with 6 arms weighted to solve slippage at high rpm.
The new Hays convertible adds the ability to install studs and make it a full slider. A ride back and air assist can be easily added if you want to spend the $700. No plans to use either and mtc can be converted to a full slider and use air assist as well.
Point being, my original thoughts were wanting to buy from 1 Stop Speed because he would help me setup the mtc for the street.
Now it’s clear I need to choose how I want to use/tune either clutch regardless of what anyone else says. Each bike is setup with different suspension, rider weight, tire, road/track surface, weight bias, etc.
It seems that no matter which you choose, it’s up to you to get it to work on your bike with the track conditions you are racing at.
I’m a few months from making a decision and just wanted to share some thoughts now that I’ve had more time to think about it. If I’m off on any of my thought process please let me know!
Thanks to everyone who has shared comments and experience.
TonyM995
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The one thing I’ve found that could be a big difference between mtc and hays is this.
MTC says “The old standard of clamping the clutch pack between the pressure plate and inner hub is gone” And “The clutch is clamped via the pressure plate which is tabbed to the basket and the spacer plate pinned to the bottom of the basket.
Engaging the clutch in this manner eliminates an effect generated by the lockup of pulling out on the clutch basket while clamping the clutch pack.”
Anyone know if the Hays is much different in that regard?
Currently the Hays is $1,500 and the MTC is $2,200 both with core exchange. For me I’m not sure the mtc is worth the extra money.
MTC says “The old standard of clamping the clutch pack between the pressure plate and inner hub is gone” And “The clutch is clamped via the pressure plate which is tabbed to the basket and the spacer plate pinned to the bottom of the basket.
Engaging the clutch in this manner eliminates an effect generated by the lockup of pulling out on the clutch basket while clamping the clutch pack.”
Anyone know if the Hays is much different in that regard?
Currently the Hays is $1,500 and the MTC is $2,200 both with core exchange. For me I’m not sure the mtc is worth the extra money.
I couldn’t tell u if the hays is different in that regard but I can tell you with straight cut gears on the crank and clutch like the Busa has I don’t think it’s detrimental either way. I’ve had a regular single stage lock up consistently 60ft 1.16-1.18 for probably 13 yrs at this point with no problems.
202mphbusa
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Buddy with a 7.60- 7:70 no bar spray bike ran the Hays for three years
Says he has better clutch life with the MTC
AND he kept breaking Hays springs, to the point where he would replace them every 30 passes
Clutch life he thinks is cause he figured out you have to rev first a bit higher to avoid dropping into clutch slip on the 1-2 cause the ratios
Says he has better clutch life with the MTC
AND he kept breaking Hays springs, to the point where he would replace them every 30 passes
Clutch life he thinks is cause he figured out you have to rev first a bit higher to avoid dropping into clutch slip on the 1-2 cause the ratios
You are referring to the new backless center hub from MTC. Hays already is backless, and no spacer needed.
Edit: I would do my research before buying the Convertible. The Revolution is pretty solid.
I can't imagine breaking springs on a Hays Revolution handslider. Regarding clutch wear, you would need to know if the setups were optimized or not. Maybe the Hays needed more weight and stiffer springs to maintain the stall rpm and provide better lockup down track.
TonyM995
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The Revolution isn’t listed on their website so the stuff I’ve been looking at for both companies is what’s listed on their site.
The new convertible looks to function the same as an mtc.
What 202 is talking about is an older model Hays and considering the videos posted in this thread have advice on how to setup an mtc improperly it’s not beyond belief that someone out there did the same for a Hays and broke parts.
In an old thread on how to setup their multi stage they mention that if not setup properly you can break a spring.
The video I posted above shows how a guy broke parts in his mtc so the fact that some guy also broke a Hays means nothing to me.
This leaves me where I was before and the deciding factor seems to be company support. I’ll email Hays again but people were posting about how hard it was to get ahold of the guy 10 years ago. Not much seems to have changed with him.
The new convertible looks to function the same as an mtc.
What 202 is talking about is an older model Hays and considering the videos posted in this thread have advice on how to setup an mtc improperly it’s not beyond belief that someone out there did the same for a Hays and broke parts.
In an old thread on how to setup their multi stage they mention that if not setup properly you can break a spring.
The video I posted above shows how a guy broke parts in his mtc so the fact that some guy also broke a Hays means nothing to me.
This leaves me where I was before and the deciding factor seems to be company support. I’ll email Hays again but people were posting about how hard it was to get ahold of the guy 10 years ago. Not much seems to have changed with him.
Neither the gen2 or Revolution use extension springs.
This is the Revolution. It is $1500 right now.
www.fasttrackclutch.com
This is the Revolution. It is $1500 right now.
Revolution Handslider Complete Kit Grudge Version Hayabusa 1999-2025
Revolution Handslider Complete Kit Grudge Version Hayabusa 1999-2025
www.fasttrackclutch.com
horsinaround
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So there was a few guys on this thead going back on fourth between the hays convertible and the gen 2. Did anyone buy one and put some time on it ? I am at the same point with deciding between one or the other. I have a bike I am putting together to do some drag and drive events so i am in a similar situation where i need to street ride the bike alittle bit.
michael parris heuberger
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Hi. I get help from DME and DAS. I went with the MTC Gen 2 with air assist. You also need MTC's clutch cover. Not in anyway cheep.
horsinaround
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Dennis, any idea what the difference is between the regular revolution and the grudge version ?Neither the gen2 or Revolution use extension springs.
This is the Revolution. It is $1500 right now.
Revolution Handslider Complete Kit Grudge Version Hayabusa 1999-2025
Revolution Handslider Complete Kit Grudge Version Hayabusa 1999-2025
horsinaround
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Also what makes the revolution/rock hand slider easier to setup vs a gen 2 or convertible (both setup as a hand slider). I have heard the Revolution is easy to setup and doesn't need much messing with adter.Neither the gen2 or Revolution use extension springs.
This is the Revolution. It is $1500 right now.
Revolution Handslider Complete Kit Grudge Version Hayabusa 1999-2025
Revolution Handslider Complete Kit Grudge Version Hayabusa 1999-2025
The grudge has less steels/fibers and will fit under a shorter clutch cover, possibly under a stock cover. I've never seen one.
The Revolution has removable caps to individually change the delay springs. I'm not aware that either would take less adjusting after it is set up. You would want to maintain stack height with either. How quickly that changes is really a function of how much slip you have which is variable on either clutch.
horsinaround
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Thanks Dennis ! I can't seem to find much info out there on the revolution. The shop that is going to tune my bike swears by them. I want to do some drag and drive stuff, I THINK that clutch should fit the bill for that ?
The MTC gen2 has been the best there is for a good amount of time now. Hard to go with anything but them when you want the best with the most customer support. I'm absolutely thrilled with my MTC. If I could do everything all over again I'd definitely get the MTC as my very first mod over everything I've ever done.
It's more popular and I'm sure sells more. Please explain why you think it is the best. When I look at a datalog I can't tell if it is a Gen2 or a Revolution. I can tell when it is a slider.
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