Nitrous 101, class in in session.

[kingofdacoast]

When the bike also reached the 10k mark and fell of was because the pressure dropped so fast it couldn't even keep it running. Now honestly you will never have this issue with a streetbike or some built motors but this one makes a crap load of HP and it wants fuel and air bad. Normally the rule of thumb on upgrading a fuel system is when your trying to make over 230hp on motor. Now I'm sure there are some motors making this hp on stock systems but depending on the build is what factors this.

 

[kingofdacoast]

Now, do you think raising the fuel pressure and running a stronger fuel pump will fix this?

 

[ToXSicK RoCKeT]

Now, do you think raising the fuel pressure and running a stronger fuel pump will fix this?

Well i agree to an extent! I STILL BELIEVE that the STOCK FUEL PUMP, 43psi, and the right map/tune SHOULD and CAN handle this engine's HP N/A, especially with bigger injectors. Like i said without seeing anything other than a partial graph, its hard, IMPOSSIBLE, for me to say what would fix the problem. What year busa.....99? Maybe the pump is wore out, what kind of fuel's in the bike, maybe 1 of the s2000 injectors are dirty.......maybe all? It also doesnt seen like the air psi and air temp sensor's are doing very much? So to answer your fictitious question, im SURE you could "band aid" fix the problem, with installing a bigger pump and cranking up fuel psi.

 

[Gixx1300R]

99 and 2000 Busas are prone to fuel pump starvation from the fuel filters being clogged. I have seen it many many times. It looks like that is the problem.

 

[kingofdacoast]

This bike is a 04. The pump in this bike I used today is out of a 06 that was in the shop. Nothing is fictious about this pull. It is a good pump with no problems. Now, here is the same bike with a high volume pump installed in the stock housing with the stock regulator modified to increase fuel pressure up to 46lbs with no changes done to the map. Only thing I did was removed the stock pump and installed the modified one.

 

[kingofdacoast]

Bike nows pulls all the way to redline and doesn't fall off. HMMMM? Is it a band-aid or did this just gave the engine what it wanted? Injectors are perfectly flowed from MPS.

The numbers on the graph are irrelevant. Regardless of what they say, on the first graph the a/f started running lean and now its rich with the increased fuel pressure and high volume pump. I didn't fudge anything to make it look my way. I didn't clean the map up or anything. I just removed the modified pump out the tank, put a stock pump in, made a pull and then reinserted the modified pump.

 

[kingofdacoast]

Like I said, I wish you were closer so you could have stood right beside the dyno while I made these runs. I don't rush on sites and put up information that you can't verify yourself. If the stock fuel system could handle everything we wouldn't need aftermarket fuel systems. Nobody would run high volume fuel pumps, regulators, bigger injectors, etc. Now if you feel that this bike can run on a stock fuel system I can show your mathematically that it can't since I already showed you physically it can't.

 

[ToXSicK RoCKeT]

This bike is a 04. The pump in this bike I used today is out of a 06 that was in the shop. Nothing is fictious about this pull. It is a good pump with no problems. Now, here is the same bike with a "HIGH VOLUME PUMP".

BRO, you just did and said, "WHAT I WAS SAYING ALL ALONG"!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
HIGH VOLUME, NOT high pressure! Not saying you cant have both? "KINGOFDACOAST" I really think where getting WAY OF BASE HERE! I also wish i was there, i live for this $HIT, Would love be there and LEARN AS MUCH AS I CAN & debate a little too ! NOT saying nor have i ever said i was a GREAT ENGINE TUNER OR DYNO TUNER! Hell, i couldn't even tell you how to turn one on. However, i've been around HIGH PERFORMACE ENGINES all my life, been a mechanic(professionally)15 years, been a Service Manager for 7 years, i do know my way around a little. Like i've mentioned before EFI IS MY WEAK SPOT, doesnt mean i dont know anything about them. My whole debate with all this, was that i KNOW, DRY N2O CAN WORK VERY GOOD IF TUNED RIGHT, EVERY BIT AS GOOD AS WET(JMHO)! You disagree, Great, hopefully will get some good useful data from the up and comming test your doing, i CANT WAIT!! And believe me when i say this bro, i do appreciate people like You & GIXX and others that come on here and are willing to help people out, SAY'S ALOT ABOUT THE BUSA BROTHERN! So lets see what happens with this up and comming "Pepsi Challenge"

BTW, What i meant about "fictitious" was the question "itself", NOT THAT YOU WHERE MAKING ANYTHING UP, or falsifying anything! My point i was trying to make, is it's hard(at least for me)to diagnose a problem without knowing all the info and or being there seeing it.
LOL, look at it this way, at the very least, we got this section of the board fired up again

 

[kingofdacoast]

I knew you were going to say something about the "high volume pump" but I didn't want to leave it out so no one can say I was hiding information. I could have richen that bike up just by upping the fuel pressure higher. It would have took about 50lbs or more which is really excessive so I used a higher volume pump with just a little more pressure for insurance. The pump would have been enough by itself. The point I was making was that the stock fuel system can get to a point where its just aint capable of working pass its limits.

Now, you said in a earlier post that all bikes come with a rising rate regulator that would increase fuel pressure up to 5lbs depending on load. If this was true then mechanically no volume would be increased just fuel pressure compensating for the load. Is this a band-aid? I'm sure by now you see my point.

You don't have to say I'm right, I'm not trying to embarrass you on this site either and definitly not trying to make you look stupid. I will never do that to a person who wants to learn. I love debating and I love learning even more. Good thing my good friend Sven from Austria isn't on this board. I'm sure Gixx and Goldenchild knows who I'm talking about (bkumps from psychobike). He will debate you untill you cry uncle and admit your wrong. Me and him are still arguing about does a TRE actually work or not.

Since EFI is maybe a weak point (I think you got the basic's understood though) there is a class anyone can take it and I recommend it if you like learning and working on you own stuff. Go to EFI University - Electronic Fuel Injection Tuning, Training and Certification and check out their schedule for efi 101. It cost $500 and they have class's all over the country. All the old school tuners and new up and coming builders (like myself) have been to this class. Class is held on the weekends for both days and when you walk out of that class room get a shopping cart cause your head is going to be so full you can't carry it. Seb Domingo of NLR systems told me about it and it was worth every penny.

 

[kingofdacoast]

 

[ToXSicK RoCKeT]

I knew you were going to say something about the "high volume pump" but I didn't want to leave it out so no one can say I was hiding information. I could have richen that bike up just by upping the fuel pressure higher. It would have took about 50lbs or more which is really excessive so I used a higher volume pump with just a little more pressure for insurance. The pump would have been enough by itself. The point I was making was that the stock fuel system can get to a point where its just aint capable of working pass its limits.

Now, you said in a earlier post that all bikes come with a rising rate regulator that would increase fuel pressure up to 5lbs depending on load. If this was true then mechanically no volume would be increased just fuel pressure compensating for the load. Is this a band-aid? I'm sure by now you see my point.

You don't have to say I'm right, I'm not trying to embarrass you on this site either and definitly not trying to make you look stupid. I will never do that to a person who wants to learn.

, Well the "BAND-AID" fix i was referring to was that statement you made above, About cranking up the fuel psi. The point i was trying to make is that in your original post(quote from nitrous book)was you/he talked alot about "just cranking up fuel psi", and i was trying to say there was more to it than that! At some point you HAVE to increase volume, for your increase in psi to do justice. IT'S OK bro, You dont have to admit i was right, i wont embarrass you on here

Now, as far as my statement about the "rising rate regular", this was something i DID think all EFI motorcycle had, maybe that was incorrect information, or i didnt understand correctly when it was explained to me at some point(i will definitely look into it) SO, i WILL ADMIT when im wrong, if what your saying is true....and i believe YOU to be right on this, I STAND CORRECTED

Thank for the advise on the EFI class, i will definitely look into it, these are the subjects they should have taught in school :learn: , you know useful things, instead of things like...english and history.....

 

[kingofdacoast]

You my dawg Toxsick. I'm on your side all the way. If you get chance go to the efi class. You will be thanking me that you did. This class isn't just for mechanics and technicians, its for any wrench turner out there. Most of the guys in my class were guys who work on their own stuff in their garage and just wanted to learn. You won't regret it. Money well spent.

 

[ToXSicK RoCKeT]

you my dawg toxsick. I'm on your side all the way. If you get chance go to the efi class. You will be thanking me that you did. This class isn't just for mechanics and technicians, its for any wrench turner out there. Most of the guys in my class were guys who work on their own stuff in their garage and just wanted to learn. You won't regret it. Money well spent.

true dat brother

 

[DocDrop]

Alot of good info you are giving Drake, it has been helpful thats for sure. So that 40 shoot dry kit your going to test is that the same one you hooked me/jules up with. Thanks for doing what you did bro, that was awesome. I'm going to try to get her out friday night for some testing.

 

[ToXSicK RoCKeT]

Alot of good info you are giving Drake, it has been helpful thats for sure. So that 40 shoot dry kit your going to test is that the same one you hooked me/jules up with. Thanks for doing what you did bro, that was awesome. I'm going to try to get her out friday night for some testing.

Hi There Doc, if your referring to the "wet" vrs "dry" shoot-out that kings doing, its GIXX 1300R'S dry spray bar, with a 100hp jets, verses a wet kit of kings choice, spraying a 50hp jet(s). The experiment is, WILL a "wet" kit @ half the HP make more MPH/Power than GIXX'S direct port "dry" spray bar? Hope this helps.

 

[kingofdacoast]

Alot of good info you are giving Drake, it has been helpful thats for sure. So that 40 shoot dry kit your going to test is that the same one you hooked me/jules up with. Thanks for doing what you did bro, that was awesome. I'm going to try to get her out friday night for some testing.

Yup, the same kit I installed in y'alls bike. Just don't let her spray it all at once.

 

[DocDrop]

Yup, the same kit I installed in y'alls bike. Just don't let her spray it all at once.

I'm looking forward to seeing what you come up with. Not sure what she is thinking right now as far as the NOS, she has not really said much. I think she just concerned about getting out of the hole is her main thought.

 

[FORDDEE]

Really want to see these results ! what date do you guys think you'll start puting up results on the site ?

 

[FORDDEE]

Hey kingofthecoast, Gixx,
Got a 2000 Busa upgrading to a walbro 255lph fuel pump. My question is can my busa handle the 100HP jets in the NX wet kit on stock internals ? running NX wet kit, PC3USB, EFI retard Box, small air box mod and muzzy sidewinder. If so, how should i set her up. ign timing retard ? gas ? plugs ?

Thanks Guys

 

[Gixx1300R]

Hey kingofthecoast, Gixx,
Got a 2000 Busa upgrading to a walbro 255lph fuel pump. My question is can my busa handle the 100HP jets in the NX wet kit on stock internals ? running NX wet kit, PC3USB, EFI retard Box, small air box mod and muzzy sidewinder. If so, how should i set her up. ign timing retard ? gas ? plugs ?

Thanks Guys

Email me at Gixx1300R@aol.com