Obama wants your guns!
- Thread starter Vonderbach
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You guys and your paranoia has been money in the bank for me. Keep up the good work! 
While Thomas Jefferson was a key player in the American Revolution and deserves respect for the role he played, let's not put him on too high a pedestal. Let's not forget he also thought it was fine to own other people whose skin color was different than his.
Not exactly a beacon of morality.
While Thomas Jefferson was a key player in the American Revolution and deserves respect for the role he played, let's not put him on too high a pedestal. Let's not forget he also thought it was fine to own other people whose skin color was different than his.
Not exactly a beacon of morality.
You guys and your paranoia has been money in the bank for me. Keep up the good work!
While Thomas Jefferson was a key player in the American Revolution and deserves respect for the role he played, let's not put him on too high a pedestal. Let's not forget he also thought it was fine to own other people whose skin color was different than his.
Not exactly a beacon of morality.
Whoa there partner. It's one thing to be opposed to an idea, it's quite another to let that opposition ostracize you and hinder your business. During Jefferson's time, slavery was as normal and acceptable as owning a tractor. Yes, it's a sad sad history that we endured, but to condemn the man for having owned slaves is simply an unfair criticism during the times. Washington owned slaves too, and he was perhaps one of the most honorable and righteous men in American history. Both Jefferson and Washington freed slaves bit during their lifetime and posthumously. And historical record shows that Jefferson was perhaps one of the more benevolent slave owners of his time.
If you want to discuss morality, you have to first have an idea what times were like during the early days of this country. Morality is entirely subjective and has changed quite drastically over the years.
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So in your opinion the importance of morality is inversely proportional to how much money can be earned by overlooking such basic tenets such as "all men are created equal"? The slope is pretty slippery from that point to Enron, Worldcom, BP, Union Carbide, and countless other entities and individuals whose morality is adjustable on a sliding scale when it comes to being "competitive".
Thomas Jefferson himself wrote "We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal, that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable Rights, that among these are Life, Liberty and the pursuit of Happiness".
I guessing the disclaimer that this statement didn't apply to those men Jefferson owned solely to provide a comfortable life for himself got edited out of the original Declaration of Independence?
Hypocracy in its purest form.
You're comparing your values from today to those from 200 years ago. As I said, it's not a proper comparison. Slavery was the accepted norm back then and without it, you would be a social pariah. What plantation would survive on paid labor? Why pay for labor when you can obtain slaves for a minor investment? Comparing 20th and 21st century business practices to those found at the inception of this country is simply illogical.
Hypocrisy only holds true if blacks were considered men, which they weren't. Shorter memories might even recall that blacks weren't even treated properly until the 1960's, well within the lifetime of many of our members. Yes it was a travesty and no I do not agree with the way these events transpired. But to judge our Founding Fathers based on the accepted norms of the past is absurd. If you like we can revisit the sins of Christianity throughout the modern world and demonstrate what hypocrisy existed there as well. But we don't do that, because our ancestors lived in a different time, and we judge people based on the conditions in which they lived.
Regardless, your attempt to smear Jefferson is duly noted.
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There is no attempt to smear Jefferson...just to suggest that perhaps he isn't someone we should be regarding as flawless.
So if I understand your "times we live in" justification for adjusting definitions of right and wrong to suit our personal situations, if the business next door to mine employs illegal immigrants (it does), then I should as well (I don't)? After all, 90% of the restaurant business utilizes illegal immigrant labor.
It is not my intent to harass you. I'm just struggling to understand this philosopy because I can't resolve in my mind how at any point in the history of the human race it should be considered okay to "own" another person.
I don't want to address your point about religion, but I suspect you and I share considerable common ground in that area.
Take care.
So if I understand your "times we live in" justification for adjusting definitions of right and wrong to suit our personal situations, if the business next door to mine employs illegal immigrants (it does), then I should as well (I don't)? After all, 90% of the restaurant business utilizes illegal immigrant labor.
It is not my intent to harass you. I'm just struggling to understand this philosopy because I can't resolve in my mind how at any point in the history of the human race it should be considered okay to "own" another person.
I don't want to address your point about religion, but I suspect you and I share considerable common ground in that area.
Take care.
but the people that would sell the bullets along with drugs, stolen property usually are pretty crafty, one learns a trade and passes it around. either that or they will just use stolen bullets.
even though i dont like the nra really heres a similar article to what i see.
heres a little bit on my stance..
http://www.nraila.org/Issues/FactSheets/Read.aspx?id=227
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The difference being that what they are doing is illegal and a moral unpleasantry as deemed by society at large. Slavery was quite the opposite during its time, as it was a commonly accepted and legal practice. To have a slave was simply another possession of the wealthy. We have a hard time accepting the morals of the time because we can't associate with them in our modern and enlightened situations.
Throughout history slavery has been commonplace and only in the last 200 years has it actually been called into question. First by Great Britain and followed shortly by the United States. The States were born from slavery and we are poorer for having experienced it to be sure. But it is unfair to gauge a man based on the morals we hold today. Much like we don't hold women accountable to standards of yesteryear when displaying the ankle was pornographic in nature.
Children children children Blanca never said Jefferson was flawless. I simply qouted him regarding the need to refresh the Tree of Liberty from time to time .
Now you guys are playing a verbal tennis match over slavery .
Slavery wasn't right but it was the normal back then .
Is was a global market in which humans were captured loaded up like animals and sold to highest bidder worldwide .
Unfortunately back then as VB stated slaves of all colors not just blacks were not considered equal so our founding fathers did not consider them to be 'all men' or 'created equal' . We've learned and liberated ourselves from our past .
Let's just leave it at that and get back on topic of those gungrabbin politicians we have now .
Pretty please.
VB I know it's your thread and steer it you may but we are way off original topic .
Now you guys are playing a verbal tennis match over slavery .
Slavery wasn't right but it was the normal back then .
Is was a global market in which humans were captured loaded up like animals and sold to highest bidder worldwide .
Unfortunately back then as VB stated slaves of all colors not just blacks were not considered equal so our founding fathers did not consider them to be 'all men' or 'created equal' . We've learned and liberated ourselves from our past .
Let's just leave it at that and get back on topic of those gungrabbin politicians we have now .
Pretty please.
VB I know it's your thread and steer it you may but we are way off original topic .
You are correct, back on course. 
So, in the event that nobody mentioned it (can't be sure) the EPA has withdrawn from this inquiry completely.
So, in the event that nobody mentioned it (can't be sure) the EPA has withdrawn from this inquiry completely.
Yeah...back to the fearmongering. I want to see my S&W stock go up more.
my tin foil hat isnt enough in these troublesome times so i upgraded....
The Death Of Cash? All Over The World Governments Are Banning Large Cash Transactions My thoughts are when I have to pay 60% of my check for taxes, wear a seat belt, never own a piece of land due to property tax( no-one owns land ) , etc etc . we are all slaves in one sense or another.. and its Not Obama who making the rules ( he just a puppet ) Its big Business / Banks / Corps. that are making the rules.. America isnt a country , its a Corporation ..= globalization
i knew i avoided this thread for a reason.
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