You guys having fun in here? Go ride your bikes....
ObamaCare for Dummies
- Thread starter gurrera
- Start date
Skydyvyr
Registered
<sigh>
So while I consider myself a politically independent and tend to look at issues and stances rather than political alignment, in all honesty, I tend to be more conservatively minded. I am an entrepreneur who works full time. For those of you without this type of experience, this means that I work well more than 50 hours per week and I do not get overtime pay, sick leave, paid time off or employer paid healthcare. If I don't work, I don't get paid, if I miss-quote a project, the money comes out of my pocket. If my company fails, I am not eligible for unemployment insurance. I have employees who depend on me to ensure the stability of my company -- if there is not enough money to pay us all, they get paid first.
While I'm not foolish enough to believe that I could have gotten to where I am today (comfortably middle class) without opportunities that the govt afforded me (ie public school systems, public infrastructure, etc), I worked & paid my way through school and funded the startup of my business out of my own pocket while working for someone else. I have never asked for or taken a financial hand out from the govt. or any other organization. While I didn't have any financial disadvantages -- there were plenty of times that I went without in pursuit of my dreams -- I didn't have any financial advantages either. I do not come from a wealthy family nor did I marry into one.
I don't share this for acclaim, because I don't believe that I'm deserving of such, just as background to possibly help anyone who reads this understand where I'm coming from.
Before Obamacare, I paid 15% less for significantly better insurance for my family and employees than I can get or pay now. Yes, we are some of those who were lied to when told "If you like your insurance you can keep your insurance". Do I believe Obamacare to be a debacle? Without question, YES! Do I believe that the federal govt can solve my problems, or do I even trust them to try, absolutely not. If I ran my business the way the Fed runs theirs, I would be on the street before I knew it. In recent history, under both republican and democrat regimes, what can anyone argue that the Fed has done that would demonstrate that I can trust them to manage anything that I currently do better than me?
I believe that the framers of the constitution desired the same thing I do, limited federal government involvement in my life. As evidence, I think about this; our founding fathers were rebelling against:
--an ever expanding taxation resulting in an enormous redistribution of wealth
--government intrusion into personal space (Quartering Act)
--government sponsored religion (Quebec Act)
In my opinion, the ever expanding influence of our current Federal Govt runs counter to the first two points above; Obamacare is a prime example of both.
Times change, and govt must as well, we just need to remember our history and where we come from lest we repeat it. Unfortunately, it often feels to me like our federal govt resembles that of King George III more and more all the time.
Flame away -- as unlikely as I am to change your opinions, your flames will most likely not convince me of what you to believe the errors of my thinking are.
--Sky
So while I consider myself a politically independent and tend to look at issues and stances rather than political alignment, in all honesty, I tend to be more conservatively minded. I am an entrepreneur who works full time. For those of you without this type of experience, this means that I work well more than 50 hours per week and I do not get overtime pay, sick leave, paid time off or employer paid healthcare. If I don't work, I don't get paid, if I miss-quote a project, the money comes out of my pocket. If my company fails, I am not eligible for unemployment insurance. I have employees who depend on me to ensure the stability of my company -- if there is not enough money to pay us all, they get paid first.
While I'm not foolish enough to believe that I could have gotten to where I am today (comfortably middle class) without opportunities that the govt afforded me (ie public school systems, public infrastructure, etc), I worked & paid my way through school and funded the startup of my business out of my own pocket while working for someone else. I have never asked for or taken a financial hand out from the govt. or any other organization. While I didn't have any financial disadvantages -- there were plenty of times that I went without in pursuit of my dreams -- I didn't have any financial advantages either. I do not come from a wealthy family nor did I marry into one.
I don't share this for acclaim, because I don't believe that I'm deserving of such, just as background to possibly help anyone who reads this understand where I'm coming from.
Before Obamacare, I paid 15% less for significantly better insurance for my family and employees than I can get or pay now. Yes, we are some of those who were lied to when told "If you like your insurance you can keep your insurance". Do I believe Obamacare to be a debacle? Without question, YES! Do I believe that the federal govt can solve my problems, or do I even trust them to try, absolutely not. If I ran my business the way the Fed runs theirs, I would be on the street before I knew it. In recent history, under both republican and democrat regimes, what can anyone argue that the Fed has done that would demonstrate that I can trust them to manage anything that I currently do better than me?
I believe that the framers of the constitution desired the same thing I do, limited federal government involvement in my life. As evidence, I think about this; our founding fathers were rebelling against:
--an ever expanding taxation resulting in an enormous redistribution of wealth
--government intrusion into personal space (Quartering Act)
--government sponsored religion (Quebec Act)
In my opinion, the ever expanding influence of our current Federal Govt runs counter to the first two points above; Obamacare is a prime example of both.
Times change, and govt must as well, we just need to remember our history and where we come from lest we repeat it. Unfortunately, it often feels to me like our federal govt resembles that of King George III more and more all the time.
Flame away -- as unlikely as I am to change your opinions, your flames will most likely not convince me of what you to believe the errors of my thinking are.
--Sky
StrtRac3r
Registered
If ignorance is believing I should not have to give my earnings away to crap bags then yes I guess I'm ignorant.
Sorry I don't live in your try world. Where "at least we tried," is good enough. Where "good enough," is good enough.
Hope you don't run into a bunch of homeless on the way home. You may loose your paycheck. But you could always sell your Busa and help the needy. Maybe start a website so people too lazy to even fill out their paperwork can send you their info and you can do it for them. Hey at least it's something right? Don't want these pillars of society going uncovered. Or worse, get a fine they will never pay that will also need to be absorbed.
StrtRac3r
Registered
Oh and just so you don't get your panties in a bunch. Or anyone else since as of lately there has been a lot of drama around here.
I don't hold grudges, especially about beliefs or political views. I have my thoughts, you have yours, and that will never change. BUT, how bout you put out some facts instead of opinions when someone disagrees with you. Just claiming everyone else is ignorant, or my dad works as hard as your dad means nothing. I never said you, or your family don't work, and haven't seen anyone else say that.
Gpmo
Registered
Hope you don't end up homeless when one of yours gets so sick that you end up losing everything just to get the medical care needed. End up on the street as one of the homeless!! You think it can't happen to you? Want to go meet some people that had that exact same thing happen? Proud men like yourself who thought that they would always be able to care for them and theirs. But due to a jacked up disgusting greed oriented health system they lost everything. Its sad that the talking heads out there seem to not notice these forgotten people and make it easier for other folks to spout ignorant statements.
Why don't we all take a look at the bigger picture of our health system, past the who is paying for it and instead at who is gaining from it. Then look at the benefits of helping everyone stay healthy!
Also good for you for not holding grudges on politics. Thats an issue that lots of folks have these days thus our country is more and more partisan. I'd still buy ya a beer and a burger, AND think you made an ignorant statement.
Gpmo
Registered
Your not supposed to have a blast when talking about health care.. Its supposed to be depressing.
And if ya really don't like it.... go jump out of a plane!
Oh, I'm having a blast watching you (unsuccessfully) TRY to defend (the undefensable) Obamacare...
Just to be clear, conservatives don't own the corner when it comes to crony capitalism...
House Democrats push for Ex-Im Bank - Lauren French - POLITICO.com
Just to be clear, conservatives don't own the corner when it comes to crony capitalism...
House Democrats push for Ex-Im Bank - Lauren French - POLITICO.com
StrtRac3r
Registered
All this says to me is that you aren't that familiar with what is going on.
Who is gaining from this? Only the people getting assistance. According to polls there are more people now uninsured that there were when Obama took office. Most of the people signing up for Obama care are simply switching from previous carriers.
I can agree that it would be wonderful for everyone to be healthy. Look at that Obama care movie... "Elisyum." it would be great if we all had a bed that cured us. And this doesn't at all in any way benefit the supposed 83% of us that had insurance (from the same poll)
Yes, let's look at the bigger picture: More people are out of insurance, or have worse insurance at a higher cost and deductable than what was gained by insuring those 'ininsured'. The Insurance companies (can we say 'crony liberal capitalists') are ENSURED a profit because the govt GUARANTEED them a profit and will now have to bail them out. Wealth was transferred and DISAPPEARED. BIG GOVERNMENT now has both feet in controlling EVERYBODY's heathcare. Those who are sick without insurance still go to the ER for free.
So, now that we've looked at the BIGGER picture, STILL a failure. It was never about the BIGGER picture, it was about pandering to the liberal voting block to TAKE from those who MAKE to give it to those who DO NOT.
Facts backing my statement above:
http://dailysignal.com/2014/06/24/obamacare-exchanges-disappointing/
So, now that we've looked at the BIGGER picture, STILL a failure. It was never about the BIGGER picture, it was about pandering to the liberal voting block to TAKE from those who MAKE to give it to those who DO NOT.
Facts backing my statement above:
http://dailysignal.com/2014/06/24/obamacare-exchanges-disappointing/
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Those that know me know I'm not for either side, but I can tell you that right now, the healthcare changes S U C K for those of us that have had coverage and are feeling the sting. Just a few months ago, a CT scan (or any specialized scan under my current plan) cost me a $50 copay. I went in yesterday for an MRI, and imagine my sticker shock - $540! My "new plan" doesn't even start until August 1, so this is under my existing plan. I went in expecting my usual $50 copay on a scan, but I'm telling you, I'm not the only one that's getting this type of news when we go in for visits/scans...
I'm all for "coverage for everyone", but I'm not for having those of us that were already paying anyway having to now pay more...I'm not going to sit here and side with one side over the other because every politician is a crook, but the prior state of healthcare was broken and it's even more broken now. Kills me to know that someone that's not working could likely walk in and get that same MRI and pay $0, and had I done it last fall, I would have paid $50, but yesterday? $540 Thanks Obamacare...what else can I blame but that? In my world, nothing else has changed - same job, same exact insurance plan until August 1st...you tell me...
I'm all for "coverage for everyone", but I'm not for having those of us that were already paying anyway having to now pay more...I'm not going to sit here and side with one side over the other because every politician is a crook, but the prior state of healthcare was broken and it's even more broken now. Kills me to know that someone that's not working could likely walk in and get that same MRI and pay $0, and had I done it last fall, I would have paid $50, but yesterday? $540 Thanks Obamacare...what else can I blame but that? In my world, nothing else has changed - same job, same exact insurance plan until August 1st...you tell me...
Those that know me know I'm not for either side, but I can tell you that right now, the healthcare changes S U C K for those of us that have had coverage and are feeling the sting. Just a few months ago, a CT scan (or any specialized scan under my current plan) cost me a $50 copay. I went in yesterday for an MRI, and imagine my sticker shock - $540! My "new plan" doesn't even start until August 1, so this is under my existing plan. I went in expecting my usual $50 copay on a scan, but I'm telling you, I'm not the only one that's getting this type of news when we go in for visits/scans...
I'm all for "coverage for everyone", but I'm not for having those of us that were already paying anyway having to now pay more...I'm not going to sit here and side with one side over the other because every politician is a crook, but the prior state of healthcare was broken and it's even more broken now. Kills me to know that someone that's not working could likely walk in and get that same MRI and pay $0, and had I done it last fall, I would have paid $50, but yesterday? $540 Thanks Obamacare...what else can I blame but that? In my world, nothing else has changed - same job, same exact insurance plan until August 1st...you tell me...
What it proves (and it has time/time again), that taking from the 'have's' to give to the 'have-not's' without any skin in the game does NOT work for anybody in the long run....
I agree...all this really did was pander to those most unwilling to do for themselves, IMHO, and the rest of us that work for it will pay dearly for this.
I'm saying this as someone that's refuses to subscribe to either side of the aisle...this stinks on every level
Next in line for me - being forced in to the high end HSA BS my employer has been floating for two years now. This year, step one was eliminating my old plan and forcing me to pay for the next crappy one they offer. I give it 2 years tops and the new plan I'm on will be phased out...welcome to the new higher cost of healthcare...
via Samsung Galaxy SIII
For someone to get something for nothing, someone else needs to get nothing for something. The Constitution is there to limit the power the Federal Government has, not to grant it powers. The Government has proven itself incompetent at running businesses every time it tries, and there are still people out there who think everything should be turned over to the Government.
Says who?
Both sides stink
via Samsung Galaxy SIII
Because, by not picking a side and sitting out, it perpetuates the stalemate...
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