Gpmo
Registered
Oh how I wish I were Union
- Thread starter III
- Start date
do you understand privileges and rights?
Right | Define Right at Dictionary.com
Privilege | Define Privilege at Dictionary.com
now are we practicing indirect debating
so youre upset that you got paid while nobody would unload your truck? how did all the other trucks get unloaded that day?
ive worked union, non union, cash only private. ive managed, i currently run my own crew. ive made min wage to top scale in a company. my family owned 2 companies. both started from groung up. one passed down to second gen and the other my father started.
ive worked docks non union, it was the most dangerous and wasteful operation ive ever seen. if i pulled half the stuff those guys did back then today with my union i would be black listed.
what does being a union member have to do with work ethic? we have a laborers union out here and they are the hardest working guys ive ever seen. sure there are the lazy ones but they get fired. there are people on out of work lists that will work when others wont. they get dispatched by their local.
so a union ran by thugs is diff than a company ran by thugs? how does this logic hold water? im sure a non union company has never intimidated an employee.... i guess they are all evil companies and we should all open up small businesses. who needs big companies anyway.
Right | Define Right at Dictionary.com
Privilege | Define Privilege at Dictionary.com
now are we practicing indirect debating
so youre upset that you got paid while nobody would unload your truck? how did all the other trucks get unloaded that day?
ive worked union, non union, cash only private. ive managed, i currently run my own crew. ive made min wage to top scale in a company. my family owned 2 companies. both started from groung up. one passed down to second gen and the other my father started.
ive worked docks non union, it was the most dangerous and wasteful operation ive ever seen. if i pulled half the stuff those guys did back then today with my union i would be black listed.
what does being a union member have to do with work ethic? we have a laborers union out here and they are the hardest working guys ive ever seen. sure there are the lazy ones but they get fired. there are people on out of work lists that will work when others wont. they get dispatched by their local.
so a union ran by thugs is diff than a company ran by thugs? how does this logic hold water? im sure a non union company has never intimidated an employee.... i guess they are all evil companies and we should all open up small businesses. who needs big companies anyway.
It still happens. Maybe not to that extreme, but it does. My buddies dad was threatened pretty severely a few months ago for wanting the union out of his shop. Their contract was up even. Its even a small shop, maybe 30 employees...
Sent from my HTC EVO using Tapatalk.
First off, do you know how hard this is on a touchscreen phone?do you understand privileges and rights?
Right | Define Right at Dictionary.com
Privilege | Define Privilege at Dictionary.com
now are we practicing indirect debating
.......
so a union ran by thugs is diff than a company ran by thugs? how does this logic hold water?
If you read those definitions and still believe that a job is a right and not a privilege, then we will never agree on anything here.
And your point about thugs doesn't make any sense to me either since that is like comparing a local police force to the marines...
Sent from my HTC EVO using Tapatalk.
a comp ran by thugs can and will intimidate people just like a union ran by thugs can and will intimidate people. the acts of one sect of a group shouldnt define the whole.
the comp taking union labor is because there is no other way it would get done. only union companies can do the work needed, at the level needed. when this job is over they will dump the costly union labor for un-educated, untrained labor and teach them their way to operate what we build.
whether you want to classify a job as a right or privilege can go either way, some privileges include rights. i know what you are getting at here, but its more like people have developed and entitlement vs a right. every man able and will should have the right to work even though all do not have that privilege justly or unjustly.
im a union member but i can see the wrong in some locals/unions actions. also though previously i was non union and could see the good they did. if you cant do either then take a minute and look around. not everything is cut and dry. shades of gray are all over. ive also noticed your not in a right to work state, vote with your feet if your not happy with current legislation.
the comp taking union labor is because there is no other way it would get done. only union companies can do the work needed, at the level needed. when this job is over they will dump the costly union labor for un-educated, untrained labor and teach them their way to operate what we build.
whether you want to classify a job as a right or privilege can go either way, some privileges include rights. i know what you are getting at here, but its more like people have developed and entitlement vs a right. every man able and will should have the right to work even though all do not have that privilege justly or unjustly.
im a union member but i can see the wrong in some locals/unions actions. also though previously i was non union and could see the good they did. if you cant do either then take a minute and look around. not everything is cut and dry. shades of gray are all over. ive also noticed your not in a right to work state, vote with your feet if your not happy with current legislation.
Unions came into being for a very good reason...look at what the crockers, stanfords, and other might industrialists did to their employees. Every sword has 2 edges and the unions are far from innocent..it is a dance that corporate and unions due every couple of years during contract renewals. There is a lot wrong with unions...there is a lot wrong with corporations...in how they handle business interests versus their own interests...many a union prez has his fingers in the till..and some are mafia infilitrated...some get cement shoes...and some of the corporate mucky mucks should be shot like they do to Chinese corporate leaders who do unethical things.
I got fired a couple of years ago for writing a letter to my coworkers about my managers demands being unfair on us...the union got my job back for me because i had the right of free speach and their investigation showed my allegations had valid points...so, the dance goes on and corporate america squeezes us harder and union members are losing benefits almost every new contract....and by the time we are ready to retire and 60 percent of Los Angeles gets paid under the table and therefore doesn't contribute to the SS system..and then ask for their benefits...we are screwed glued and tatooed...Remember the movie..."They shoot horses don't they"...how long can you dance? Because my take on it guys...most of us are going to be working much longer than our daddies or grandpas did...Union or no union...things have fundamentally changed and you better be financially ready to take care of yourself when you retire..because what they promised us most of our working lives...it won't be there...lucky if 50 percent of it is there...mark my words...
I got fired a couple of years ago for writing a letter to my coworkers about my managers demands being unfair on us...the union got my job back for me because i had the right of free speach and their investigation showed my allegations had valid points...so, the dance goes on and corporate america squeezes us harder and union members are losing benefits almost every new contract....and by the time we are ready to retire and 60 percent of Los Angeles gets paid under the table and therefore doesn't contribute to the SS system..and then ask for their benefits...we are screwed glued and tatooed...Remember the movie..."They shoot horses don't they"...how long can you dance? Because my take on it guys...most of us are going to be working much longer than our daddies or grandpas did...Union or no union...things have fundamentally changed and you better be financially ready to take care of yourself when you retire..because what they promised us most of our working lives...it won't be there...lucky if 50 percent of it is there...mark my words...
afterhours
Registered
blahblabla.....
so much garbage.
The truth is:
Lazy employees, poor work ethic and substandard quality have nothing to do with whether a job is "Union" or not.
There are bad shops,warehouses even factories, the ridiculous part is that nobody will admit it. The Union guys will try and convince us that "ALL" Union workers are as honest, respectable and hard working as they are.....
when even they know they are not. However to say all Unions are bad is a bunch of crap also.
so much garbage.
The truth is:
Lazy employees, poor work ethic and substandard quality have nothing to do with whether a job is "Union" or not.
There are bad shops,warehouses even factories, the ridiculous part is that nobody will admit it. The Union guys will try and convince us that "ALL" Union workers are as honest, respectable and hard working as they are.....
when even they know they are not. However to say all Unions are bad is a bunch of crap also.
Hey, I get the same thing and I work for the largest defense contractor in the world...
i agree with you 100% and i am a union member.
Wasn't going to post, but I guess I will this time. See the same thing once or twice a year on the board about someone bashing the union or union members.
It is sorta humorous, how a few bad apples can make everyone stereotype another person or group. Like other riders stereotype Hayabusa riders; saying we are all rude and stuck up. Or in a way like the cop bashing threads; but they always get locked and deleted.
Guess the 5 years serving in the apprenticeship and going to class, plus on job training was not the education or training you speak of. I see people get fired or laid off all the time for lack of production or failure to pass a drug test (urine and hair follicle), but I assume in "your" world; this kind of things never happen to a member of a union.
Yes, I make good money; not "fantastic" that you speak of, but it is a good living. I have to go out and work in the elements day in and day out with some risks to provide for my family. 29 years old as of writing this, and my neck, back, knees, and feet hurt, but I guess that I am one of the lazy and overpaid workers that is bringing down the American economy.
You wish to speak of "fantastic" money; then maybe you should talk to the CEO's and executives that make 100's of thousands of dollars to sit on there rear all day.
I respect your opinion and hope you do the same for mine; but I feel that yours is flawed and stereotyping all union employees; whether you know them or not.
If you couldn't tell I am Damn proud to be a "lazy, overpaid and uneducated" union member.
So far this thread has remained civil despite the differences of opinion which is why its still alive. Hopefully it will remain this way. I'll refrain from adding any fuel
Pipe, i've glad you've got a union that understands how they fit.
The one's I want in trouble are like the auto union up in MI, where they followed the employees going to the park at lunch, getting drunk and high, and going back to the line to supposedly build quality automobiles. The union did not fire those that had seniority, even in the grossest of violations.
The truth is, both unions and management can't be greedy, or they will kill the goose that is laying the golden egg for them both. Unfortunatly, more often than not, this is exactly what happens.
The one's I want in trouble are like the auto union up in MI, where they followed the employees going to the park at lunch, getting drunk and high, and going back to the line to supposedly build quality automobiles. The union did not fire those that had seniority, even in the grossest of violations.
The truth is, both unions and management can't be greedy, or they will kill the goose that is laying the golden egg for them both. Unfortunatly, more often than not, this is exactly what happens.
III
Registered
Well, I wasnt going to post either. But, after climbing poles for 16 years working proudly for various electric utilities as an IBEW member, serving on E-boards, loads of committees, Steward for many years, etc the list goes on. I can tell you that any Union is only as strong as its weakest member. If your lucky, 15% of the total membership does the work for the whole membership. I no longer climb poles for a living, there is no classification for what I do, and I am happier than I have ever been. Perhaps someday when we are sitting around a camp fire drinking a beer, we can discuss it further.
Posser
Registered
+1 on the safety that trade unions bring. Coming from non-union it was almost foreign seeing the precautions (common sense) put in place
Similar threads
