OK now PC2, Yosh or what

[Guest]

I wonder if our fuel/air sensor in the tailpipe might begin to answer Todd's questions. See the posts about O2 sensor. It would be a good way to get numbers at 140mph. Coupled with a PC2 might just be the way to tune for the airbox mod and ramair.

[This message has been edited by Lyle (edited 05 November 1999).]

 

[OB_VegasDude]

no problem, dude..........lol

 

[Guest]

Lyle - yes that thread combined with this one concerning the problems with at least one air box mod gone bad is what brought on my questions. Plus I would like to have the option of adding a K&N or other stock replacement air filter in the future if an improvement could be shown. The discussions concerning these various factors have been spread out over months and I'm just trying to piece it all together and update myself as well as plan ahead for a possible filter mod.


PS - I use a Haltech meter [LED bar readout] on my turbo car to monitor O2 sensors under load.

[This message has been edited by Todd (edited 05 November 1999).]

 

[OB_cbxchris]

My dyno has been the fact that I have two busa`s....the micron PC2 bike will kick my yosh equipped bike with me or my friend riding...yes we have swithched bikes to make this a fair comparison. Rear wheel dyno`s are not the answer with a bike with ramair...good for sitting still and nothing else...that`s why all pro-stock engines are dynoed on a superflow dyno...true at the crankshaft HP...no tire slip. I have tried with and without the airbox mod on both bikes and against each other....If you think that a stock box is going to work I`ve got a bridge to sell.The bikes will work with the mod and yes you need to richen it up dramatically on top especially with no air filter...thats where the big change is..I`ve proved it ....with either yosh box or PC2 and regardless of pipe...I`ve drag raced bikes for 20 years and sometimes you just have to take them out on the street and find out what works..and on the matter of roll on`s the modded bike will out pull anywhere above 5000rpm on but not lower than that...and yes I`ve proved that too...to myself and that`s what counts I guess.

 

[OB_VegasDude]

Thanks....cbxchris.........

 

[OB_maniac marshall]

cbxchris and vegasdude could you guys email me at maniac@istar.ca so i can get your email addresses, i would like to ask you some questions about the micron system.

thanks
maniac

 

[OB_mslater]

VegasDude,
Bubble Bust? Sure. What were the before and after HP numbers? From what I've heard/read stock busa's range from 151 - 161 in HP. So let's just say your guy got 155 stock. Are you telling me this guy in now pushing 171 hp with just the micron and a pcII? Put the jpegs were your mouth is cause that just doesn't fly. Why haven't other micron/pcII owners posted such huge gains? Why have I never, repeat never-ever seen anyone upload a dyno with 171+ horses claiming they were gained just from a pcII and a micron pipe?

My point is, folks need to be discerning when considering claims some of the .org members post, not all are believable or honest. Myself for one will carefully evaluate any mod before laying hands on my baby. I bought into the air-box mod crap and paid the price to get my stock box back. Maybe if all you want is a top speed run so you can say "I've run 203 on my busa" then great. Air box mod works for you. Different strokes for different folks. But if you ever run up against a busa set-up to accelerate (like mine), your bubble will be busted when you finally get to see what the tail-end of a busa looks like at speed.

Dude, if your friend's bike is truly stock besides the micron and pc2, then at the strip, You and your micron-pipped friend can bust your wallet out for an 8 or a quarter against my measley little 164 horsies. I'll spend your money nicely everytime. What's the closest track between AR and NV?

 

[OB_VegasDude]

Mslater, stock horse power is 152. WIth Micron and pc2 is 168. You cant even guess right. Just because you never never seen these numbers doesnt mean they dont exist. It caused me to go out and lay down the money for my micron and pc2. And no, I didnt dyno mine because personally i think dyno runs are bad for bikes. I did do roll on's with him with mine stock and he killed me, now we run even...........apparently I did burst your bubble...........

 

[OB_mslater]

roll-ons don't mean diddly. Too much rider input. You're claiming hp on someone else's bike and posting results as "facts" from a dyno run for which you weren't present. Upload the dyno charts dude (yea, i know any clown can alter the dyno results, but it'd be hard to make them show exactly what you've claimed here). If you're not willing to do that, then stop posting B.S. If you're not willing to do that, then "burst my bubble" on the strip, I'll drive three hours to make you put up or shut up...currently accepting Cash only please...

 

[Guest]

I have a question concerning the airbox mods that I've never seen directly answered. While I agree that more airflow/more fuel should provide an advantage [basic theory is sound] how can a Busa owner ever tune for the additional flow of the airbox mod (or aftermarket free flow filter) on a dyno? It's great to have the PC2/Yosh boxes but how can ram air/additional air flow from the box mod be duplicated in order to use the boxes and set up the fuel settings properly? I thought that Bob had found the solution when he located the dyno with the simulated air flow (he has probably gotten closer to optimum in this situation than anybody) but now after the latest ram air articles it appears that the dyno simulators are not able to provide the airflow neccessary to duplicate real life/actual airflow/ramair that is taking place with the Busa at speed on the road. Seems to me a recipe for disaster unless one tunes on the rich side to compensate? Wouldn't this lead to guessing and less than optimum results? I originally had thought/hoped the stock Busa ECU would do more in the way of compensating for this similiar to the way my cars do so dynamically but without O2 sensors to gather real time data it appears the Busa ECU is limited and somewhat static? I understand that above idle the Busa has fixed maps only?

I have gathered this from bits and pieces posted for several months and I'm not certain of the final consensus. Can anyone provide an accurate summary of the situation? What about aftermarket air filter replacements like K&N? (if they ever release it) What will be required to take advantage of that simple change?



[This message has been edited by Todd (edited 05 November 1999).]

 

[OB_VegasDude]

too much rider input.......damn i knew there was a reason i liked roll ons......iVe got both dyno read outs, but if I show them to you then you'd say that some other mod was done. You see with your type(and we have had them here before)are only happy causing problems or only concerned with what THEY think, whereas most of the people in this forum try to help each other and provide useful information. I'm sure the other members can validate this. Take for example "roll ons dont mean diddly" that is what you think, for me and a lot of others its just as valid as running a quarter mile. You either win or lose. Its a good way to test mods on an even basis so stop your bitching and your stupid challenges.
If you chose to do your math correctly a race track between here and Little Rock, Ark is a little more than 3 hours ride.....sheeeeeeeeeeh

[This message has been edited by VegasDude (edited 05 November 1999).]

 

[Guest]

Good questions Todd. How do you set up the fuel maps after an air box mod? Guesstimating while riding? I think a Yosh box can be changed by the side of the road. Can you do the same with a PC2.

[This message has been edited by Lyle (edited 05 November 1999).]

 

[OB_VegasDude]

Lyle, with the pc2 you can make rich or lean the low, mid and high ranges. You can do this manually in just seconds.......

 

[Guest]

Thanx Dude. Sounds like a PC2 will be an early mod on my 2K.

I bought a Marsee tank bag on your advice and it's working great too.

[This message has been edited by Lyle (edited 05 November 1999).]

 

[OB_Bob]

Entertaining thread
Heres my 2 cents:

I have both-PC2&Yosh with a micron. Don't know how the PC2 would perform with the yosh pipe or any other.
I rode yesterday and many before that with the PC2. I don't do this because the PC2 is slower and less responsive. Its just the opposite.
I have been to the strip, the dyno, and have done roll-ons against a couple stock Busa's, one Yosh piped. Beat them all. My strip times have not been as good as i would have liked, but this is because of the clutch more than anything I believe. Trap speeds are good 146 mph, but only a 10.09 best ET. Speed indicates that my dynoed 166 hp is close to accurate (I weigh 195 lbs.) I am just a dork when launching this thing. The clutch mod may be the answer?
The PC2 can be adjusted faster than the YOSH if you make the same kind of change as the YOSH, which is a broad across the map change. The yosh does 5% at a time at low, med, and high throttle positions. As Vegas said the PC2 can do 2% incremental changes by using the buttons located on the unit under my hump. Again this is at Low, med, and high. By the time you remove your seat and connect the Yosh I would be done with the PC2, which is already connected.
However, The beauty of the PC2 is that it can be much more useful when connected to your lap top through a rs232 cable because of the many precise fuel map changes that can be made at almost any throttle position, rpm, and increments of 1% more or less fuel if you like. Plus you can get a digital read out of rpm and throttle position % for tuning.

The airbox mod is a tough one for me. Its done and it definitely hurt the low end if you use the Yosh box. I would like to compare through roll-ons and at the strip by switching.
I got alot of use of my 2 cents--$400 for the Yosh or $300 for the PC2-no brainer if you have a micron pipe.
Bob

 

[OB_maniac marshall]

bob you said that your bike dynoed at 166, what was it before you added the pipe and pc2?

maniac

 

[OB_KawAbuser]

This may be a stupid question, but would not a O2 sensor help in making tuning decisions on the street. At a 150 you could look at the gage(while keeping a mental note on throttle position) and see if you are rich or lean, does this make any sense to you?

Ding, Ding, Gentlemen back into your corners and come back out and have a clean fight!
GET IT ON!

 

[OB_Bob]

Oxygen sensor and exhaust gas temp is a good way to tune. It gives feed back on the efficiency of the burn.
My Dyno shop has both connected to a Superflow 250 Dyno.
By the way--DynoJet used them developing the maps for the Micron pipe on a load step dyno. This is why I believe the PC2 is superior in throttle response, which doesn't always show up on the Dyno.
I will also argue that the PC2 can duplicate anything the Yosh can do, except for individual cylinder idle adjustment. If you loaded a .000 map (zeroes across the board--in other words stock map)with the PC2 and then used the buttons to increase low med and high settings to +4% each, it will perform almost identical to the Yosh on the Dyno. I did this.
The Micron adds approx. 7-8 peak HP using the
PC2. My stock dyno number is useless to evaluate the increase. Same can be said for the graph that Micron releases showing 15-16 hp increase.
The reason is my stock Dyno and Microns was with a stock bike with Very few miles on it.
Some, if not 1/2 of the increase is from break-in. I would have to put my stock pieces back on now and compare with 4000 miles.
If you ask DYNOJET about the 15-16 hp increase on their graph supplied to Micron, they will tell you just that.
But, as I have always said--Its not only about peak HP, its also about throttle response and the power curve(including torque curves) throughout the RPM range.
I don't always ride the Busa like a GSXR750 floating the tach slightly below the redline.
This Bike has plenty of power (TORQUE) down low-early on and I believe it is much improved over stock or the YOSH when the PC2 is connected..........period
Bob