Proposed Amendment to the Constitution

[Vonderbach]

I propose that we vote on an amendment to opt out of all government social services. In exchange, we will receive a lower tax rate, one that will serve to pay only for common defense and infrastructure such as interstate highways, postal services.

Who's with me?

 

[chrisjp]

are you suggesting we get rid of agencys such as child services, fema, stuff like that?

 

[Vonderbach]

are you suggesting we get rid of agencys such as child services, fema, stuff like that?

FEMA falls under common defense type provisions in my opinion, although I suppose that's debatable. Child Services are state run and have no bearing on this proposal. I'm talking about social services such as the funding of state welfare, medicaid, social security, medicare, etc.

 

[chrisjp]

and when the senior citizens who cant afford anything becasue every employer got rid of pensions..and most people dont work long enough at a company to get a pension or even vested in 401k (name me one good thing about those damn things)...how do you suppose those who pay into the goverment all 45 years of employment have any security in this age with high priced health care and cost of living expenses...???

 

[Vonderbach]

and when the senior citizens who cant afford anything becasue every employer got rid of pensions..and most people dont work long enough at a company to get a pension or even vested in 401k (name me one good thing about those damn things)...how do you suppose those who pay into the goverment all 45 years of employment have any security in this age with high priced health care and cost of living expenses...???

The people that want to participate can pay for that. What did these people do before social security?

 

[BusaWhipped]

401k (name me one good thing about those damn things

How about 2 things:
1) It allows me to make decisions regarding my retirement savings. How much to contribute, where it is invested...
2) I'm not financially locked into an employer because of being vested in their pension. I change employers, I bring my 401K with me to the new one. I don't start over in a new pension system.

 

[afterhours]

it sound good, until someone that "opted out"...files a lawsuit and gets awarded big dollars.

 

[PandaNin]

What's a pension? <rhetorical question>

I'm 43 years old and never once worked for a company that offers a retirement pension.

I've heard all my life that the SSA will be broke before I'm able to get a dime out of it so knowing that I've taken my retirement into my own hands. I'm all for Vonderbach's idea. I'm tired of busting my rear to raise my salary so my neighbor that pays $14/month for her section 8 house doesn't have to work. My mortgage is $2,400/month. She pays $14 for a comparable house. Is that really fair?

 

[afterhours]

sure, we all pay into social security.....but most get way more out of it than they ever put into it.

401k, please tell me how you can have a problem with this?

 

[ogre]

i'm in.

 

[DaCol.]

Easy to control Cost : Oklahoma is a Great Pattern

1) All Tax increases must be passed by a VOTE of the People
2) Require a Balanced Budget

THAT'S IT !

 

[Nick7]

i am all for putting retirement on you an not on the gov. I am also all working for what you have and not taking any hand out from anyone. But i like a safe country and cutting all those people off will only cause more crime in my opinion.

 

[Dino]

I propose that we vote on an amendment to opt out of all government social services. In exchange, we will receive a lower tax rate, one that will serve to pay only for common defense and infrastructure such as interstate highways, postal services.

Who's with me?

Tax dollars don't go to the post office.

 

[Vonderbach]

Tax dollars don't go to the post office.

Who do you think pays for the red ink then?

I get what you're saying, and yes, the USPS was a poor choice. But it still gets handouts on a regular basis.

 

[PandaNin]

Dino is right about the postal service,

"A self-supporting government enterprise, the U.S. Postal Service is the only delivery service that reaches every address in the nation — 150 million residences, businesses and Post Office boxes. The Postal Service receives no tax dollars. With 36,000 retail locations and the most frequently visited website in the federal government, the Postal Service relies on the sale of postage, products and services to pay for operating expenses." Postal Service

That said,
"Until adoption of the Postal Reorganization Act of 1970, the U.S. Postal Service functioned as a regular, tax-supported, agency of the federal government.

According to the laws under which it now operates, the U.S. Postal Service is a semi-independent federal agency, mandated to be revenue-neutral. That is, it is supposed to break even, not make a profit." The United States Postal Service (USPS). Is it government agency or a private business? It's both.

That's one thing they don't need to worry about. They currently have a $3.8B deficit and have $10B in debt.

 

[afterhours]

sure, if you look at the numbers SS is a bad investment. It sounds like a good idea to let people plan and invest for thier own retirement.

problem is....people will not do it. the people that complain about SS not giving them enough, are the ones that would not invest on thier own.

I do not know of anyone that has a retirement plan, that complains about SS. the people that complain are the ones that rely on SS as thier only source of income after retirement.

 

[lar300mag]

Im in, I'm tired of paying 1/3 of my check for a system that aint working now and will continue to get worse.

 

[mrsBusawhipped]

The Ant and the Grasshopper

An Aesop Fable retold by Rose Owens



One summer day a grasshopper was singing and chirping and hopping about. He was having a wonderful time. He saw an ant who was busy gathering and storing grain for the winter.

“Stop and talk to me,” said the grasshopper. “We can sing some songs and dance a while.”

“Oh no,” said the ant. “Winter is coming. I am storing up food for the winter. I think you should do the same.”

“Oh, I can’t be bothered,” said the grasshopper. “Winter is a long time off. There is plenty of food.” So the grasshopper continued to dance and sing and chip and the ant continued to work.

When winter came the grasshopper had no food and was starving. He went to the ant’s house and asked, “Can I have some wheat or maybe a few kernels of corn. Without it I will starve,” whined the grasshopper.

“You danced last summer,” said the ants in disgust. “You can continue to dance.” And they gave him no food.



There is a time to work and a time to play.

 

[BusaWhipped]

sure, if you look at the numbers SS is a bad investment. It sounds like a good idea to let people plan and invest for thier own retirement.

problem is....people will not do it. the people that complain about SS not giving them enough, are the ones that would not invest on thier own.

I do not know of anyone that has a retirement plan, that complains about SS. the people that complain are the ones that rely on SS as thier only source of income after retirement.

I complain about the Gov't taking a bunch of my money to fund the Ponzi scheme of Social Security. That doesn't mean I don't have my own retirement plan.

 

[Vonderbach]

I keep going back to pre-FDR and ask myself, what did they do before the government stepped in to save the day? People say things like "well, we've advanced since then" and "the world would be a different place if we didn't create those programs." But I have to wonder, would people not find a way if they were not given any other alternative?

What happened to family? I think we've lost our way, and social services is just one of many symptoms or causes, depending on how you look at it.