OB_Dyno_Mark
Registered
Lyle,
At this time, there is not a way to duplicate ram air accurately....
D_M
At this time, there is not a way to duplicate ram air accurately....
D_M
Question For DynoMark
- Thread starter OB_Dyno_Mark
- Start date
G
Guest
Bummer
Is there any way blowers could be built to produce 200 mph wind from the rear drive wheel rollers.
How does Suzi themselves tune these things for Ramair? It would take a million test runs around a track to set up the fuel maps correctly. How does Suzi know what horsepower ramair produces for their advertising?
I don't know what it is but there has to be a way.
Is there any way blowers could be built to produce 200 mph wind from the rear drive wheel rollers.
How does Suzi themselves tune these things for Ramair? It would take a million test runs around a track to set up the fuel maps correctly. How does Suzi know what horsepower ramair produces for their advertising?
I don't know what it is but there has to be a way.
OB_KawAbuser
Registered
Alex,What would be a wind tunnel.
When is final Jeopardy?
When is final Jeopardy?
OB_gsx1300rguy
Registered
How about putting one of those portable dyno`s in a wind tunnel...dont forget to bolt it down and strap yourself in...yehaaa 
G
Guest
I am guessing that you are a representative of DynoJet, or at least a dyno heavy.
Is there a way to simulate Ramair on a dyno?
In reading everybody's posts about dyno testing I have to wonder if a dyno tuned bike would end up lean when actually out on the track or street.
I am aware that the Dynojet 250 has fan's but aren't they designed to blow on the radiator and maybe not accurate for ramair inlets.
Is there a way to simulate Ramair on a dyno?
In reading everybody's posts about dyno testing I have to wonder if a dyno tuned bike would end up lean when actually out on the track or street.
I am aware that the Dynojet 250 has fan's but aren't they designed to blow on the radiator and maybe not accurate for ramair inlets.
Could you use a belt driven supercharger to provide a small amount of boost? Use a secoundary motor to drive it. Have some sort of positive connection to the ram air capable of this kind of small boost.
Do you guys monitor air flow in,(CFM)?
[This message has been edited by maui (edited 09 October 1999).]
Do you guys monitor air flow in,(CFM)?
[This message has been edited by maui (edited 09 October 1999).]
OB_Dyno_Mark
Registered
Lyle,
Sorry that it took me so long to get back with you, but I just returned from Del Mar, CA.
The manufacturers test will run tests at speed on the road. By connecting
a manometer (pressure sensor) to the air box, they can track what kind of
pressure is experienced at a given speed. This can be fairly simply
replicated on the dyno with the use of a smac-pac electric motor controller
and a large fan. They simply ramp the fans up to produce the same air box
pressure as recorded on the road. By building this "map" of fan power =
air box pressure, they can then have an input to the motor controller that
simply references the speed of the rear wheel. This setup is quite
expensive, so virtually no shops would pay for anything like that.
Dynojet looks at ram air a different way. Since the manufacturers have
already compensated for the additional fuel needed when the air box is
pressurized, we need not reinvent the wheel. This means that since their
system is self-compensating, we don't have to compensate any more. Since
the pressure in the air box is static on the dyno, the jetting is also
static as far as compensation goes. We don't need to put in larger main
jets, or more fuel on the dyno to compensate for what will happen on the
street at speed, since the bike already compensates. Whatever happens on
the dyno translates to what will happen on the street. The carburated
bikes use float bowl vent tubes to pressurize the float bowl while the fuel
injected bikes (like the 'busa) use the air box pressure sensor to increase
fuel at speed.
While the horsepower will go up slightly on the street at speed with the
extra pressure and fuel, it's not really a large difference*. For these
reasons, we do not try to replicate it on the dyno. Since all the bikes
are tested in the same static scenario, all things are equal. That means
if one bike makes 5hp more on the dyno, then it will make 5hp more on the
street, even at speed, since ram air is power on top of the normally
aspirated power.
*One of the magazines tested a ZX-9R some years back. They found no air
box pressure until over 100mph, and the pressure at 160mph would equate to
around 6rwhp.
Sorry that it took me so long to get back with you, but I just returned from Del Mar, CA.
The manufacturers test will run tests at speed on the road. By connecting
a manometer (pressure sensor) to the air box, they can track what kind of
pressure is experienced at a given speed. This can be fairly simply
replicated on the dyno with the use of a smac-pac electric motor controller
and a large fan. They simply ramp the fans up to produce the same air box
pressure as recorded on the road. By building this "map" of fan power =
air box pressure, they can then have an input to the motor controller that
simply references the speed of the rear wheel. This setup is quite
expensive, so virtually no shops would pay for anything like that.
Dynojet looks at ram air a different way. Since the manufacturers have
already compensated for the additional fuel needed when the air box is
pressurized, we need not reinvent the wheel. This means that since their
system is self-compensating, we don't have to compensate any more. Since
the pressure in the air box is static on the dyno, the jetting is also
static as far as compensation goes. We don't need to put in larger main
jets, or more fuel on the dyno to compensate for what will happen on the
street at speed, since the bike already compensates. Whatever happens on
the dyno translates to what will happen on the street. The carburated
bikes use float bowl vent tubes to pressurize the float bowl while the fuel
injected bikes (like the 'busa) use the air box pressure sensor to increase
fuel at speed.
While the horsepower will go up slightly on the street at speed with the
extra pressure and fuel, it's not really a large difference*. For these
reasons, we do not try to replicate it on the dyno. Since all the bikes
are tested in the same static scenario, all things are equal. That means
if one bike makes 5hp more on the dyno, then it will make 5hp more on the
street, even at speed, since ram air is power on top of the normally
aspirated power.
*One of the magazines tested a ZX-9R some years back. They found no air
box pressure until over 100mph, and the pressure at 160mph would equate to
around 6rwhp.
OB_KawAbuser
Registered
Dyno Mark as an owner of a Yosh RS3 system, I have been patiently waiting for a PCII map for this pipe since June.
The never ending story is that Yosh is shipping a pipe to us in a couple days, the same story is offered every month.(june, july, august, september, never?)
Has DynoJet the real intention of producing a map for the Yosh product?
The Yosh pipe was the first one on the market, I just can not believe that you can't get you hands on a bike with a RS3.
A simple NO is an acceptable answer.
The never ending story is that Yosh is shipping a pipe to us in a couple days, the same story is offered every month.(june, july, august, september, never?)
Has DynoJet the real intention of producing a map for the Yosh product?
The Yosh pipe was the first one on the market, I just can not believe that you can't get you hands on a bike with a RS3.
A simple NO is an acceptable answer.
OB_cbxchris
Registered
I also am interested in the map for a yosh pipe...when or if ?
OB_Dyno_Mark
Registered
Fellas...
We are working on it.
We also are doing H-D, Honda, and other applications.
Just keep checking www.powercommander.com
It will be posted as soon as we are satisfied...
D_M
We are working on it.
We also are doing H-D, Honda, and other applications.
Just keep checking www.powercommander.com
It will be posted as soon as we are satisfied...
D_M
OB_Dyno_Mark
Registered
Lyle,
You are correct that it uses gear position to assume air box
pressure. Since Suzuki did the testing, they simply build a map that
approximates air box pressure based on RPM and gear selection. For
instance, they assume that at 9000rpm in 5th gear is "X" mph, and based on
their testing, that equates to "Y" air box pressure. To compensate for
that amount of pressure, they add "Z" fuel to the base fuel curve.
Remember too, that the amount of pressure is very small, so the amount of
fuel added as speed increases is very small as well. Hope that helps.
You are correct that it uses gear position to assume air box
pressure. Since Suzuki did the testing, they simply build a map that
approximates air box pressure based on RPM and gear selection. For
instance, they assume that at 9000rpm in 5th gear is "X" mph, and based on
their testing, that equates to "Y" air box pressure. To compensate for
that amount of pressure, they add "Z" fuel to the base fuel curve.
Remember too, that the amount of pressure is very small, so the amount of
fuel added as speed increases is very small as well. Hope that helps.
OB_KawAbuser
Registered
Dyno_Mark you are a welcome breath of fresh air here at the site. Thank you for the fast response and the knowledge. Where do we need to send a bike(which DynoJet facility). I am sure we can find someone here that can work with you that has a Yosh RS3.
Will you have an Akrapovic map soon as well?
Work on the Busa's let the Harleys wait, they are not in a hurry on a good day.
Will you have an Akrapovic map soon as well?
Work on the Busa's let the Harleys wait, they are not in a hurry on a good day.
OB_KawAbuser
Registered
Dyno_Mark, thanks for the interactive update.
Now I don't have to sell the PCII for lack of support.
RS3 or TriOval, which pipe are you working with?
My understanding is that the canister is only differant, they share the same plumbing forward of the canister.
Yosh has sold a lot of pipes,I am suprised that the PCII was not sold initially with the RS3 maps.
Now I don't have to sell the PCII for lack of support.
RS3 or TriOval, which pipe are you working with?
My understanding is that the canister is only differant, they share the same plumbing forward of the canister.
Yosh has sold a lot of pipes,I am suprised that the PCII was not sold initially with the RS3 maps.
OB_cbxchris
Registered
Thanks Mark...let us know when available please!
OB_Dyno_Mark
Registered
KawAbuser,
We already have a donor-Busa. We should have the RS-3 mapped, as well as a few others in the next couple of weeks...
D_M
We already have a donor-Busa. We should have the RS-3 mapped, as well as a few others in the next couple of weeks...
D_M
G
Guest
We all know by now that we need to re-fuel map after air box mods and pipe changes. Your post sounds like the fuel map needs to be adjusted for gear changes too. ie a rear sprocket change. That's worth knowing.
I wonder if it's possible to get the speed/airbox pressure tables from Suzi? Is it in the shop manual, guys?
Thanks for the education.
I wonder if it's possible to get the speed/airbox pressure tables from Suzi? Is it in the shop manual, guys?
Thanks for the education.
G
Guest
Dyno_Mark Thanx for the explanation. I had to print it off and study it but I think I have it wired.
I'm not sure I understand how the Bus automagically compensates for air pressure.
My understanding of the fuel maps is that they are 3 dimensional, Throttle Opening, tranny gear(pink wire) and RPM are the dimensions. How is air pressure allowed for? Also if we tinker with the maps we have to allow for the effect of ramair in our tinkering. Guesstimating doesn't suit me. It's better to keep the Suzi or PCII maps than to guess.
By the way, from what I have seen the Dynojet dyno's are well thought out machines.
[This message has been edited by Lyle (edited 11 October 1999).]
I'm not sure I understand how the Bus automagically compensates for air pressure.
My understanding of the fuel maps is that they are 3 dimensional, Throttle Opening, tranny gear(pink wire) and RPM are the dimensions. How is air pressure allowed for? Also if we tinker with the maps we have to allow for the effect of ramair in our tinkering. Guesstimating doesn't suit me. It's better to keep the Suzi or PCII maps than to guess.
By the way, from what I have seen the Dynojet dyno's are well thought out machines.
[This message has been edited by Lyle (edited 11 October 1999).]
OB_Dyno_Mark
Registered
KawAbuser: The pipe we have is a Yosh RS3 Duplex full system. As soon as
we can get a bike in here, we will work on a map specifically for it. If
you're on the hayabusa mailing list (available from
www.powercommander.com), then you'll be e-mailed of it's availability as
soon as it's done.
D_M
[This message has been edited by Dyno_Mark (edited 11 October 1999).]
[This message has been edited by Dyno_Mark (edited 11 October 1999).]
we can get a bike in here, we will work on a map specifically for it. If
you're on the hayabusa mailing list (available from
www.powercommander.com), then you'll be e-mailed of it's availability as
soon as it's done.
D_M
[This message has been edited by Dyno_Mark (edited 11 October 1999).]
[This message has been edited by Dyno_Mark (edited 11 October 1999).]
Frank Adams
Registered
dyno mark: two small question.
since the majority of the people on here and the ones that are not, probably have a airbox mod. are there any plans to produce some map settings for that type of application?
also, reading your replies on simulation....whats going to happen to all of that if your running into a head wind?
thanks....frank
since the majority of the people on here and the ones that are not, probably have a airbox mod. are there any plans to produce some map settings for that type of application?
also, reading your replies on simulation....whats going to happen to all of that if your running into a head wind?
thanks....frank
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