Question for you who run the Emtes Oil Pump

[65Cobra]

I installed the Emtes oil pump on my bike two summers and had it out for a test run before I began to completely redo the original Mr Turbo setup (almost done). Obviously using the pump for an hour or so doesn't qualify me as an expert but I had multiple dealings with Mikael Tiainen from Emtes in Sweden when I had problems with the pump. After diagnosing the situation, he ended up sending me a new one, but we discussed a number of things in the process including the vent.

I took a look at the first picture where you tapped the main elbow to accept another smaller elbow, effectively creating a Tee fitting. That's what I did and Mikael said that was correct "assuming THAT would be the lowest point in the oil return line"... it MUST be at the low point, otherwise oil will accumulate at a different point in the vent line and effectively cancel out its ability to vent.

In the second series of four pictures, you have a sag in your vent line which is lower than the location of the Tee which will likely be a problem. I also noticed the smaller elbow at your Tee points downward. You need to turn that small elbow to point slightly upward then find a way to route the vent line so it does not go below the Tee... not at all.

But that's not all... even if the vent line remains higher than the Tee, it cannot contain any sags along the way. If the vent line contains a sag anywhere, oil could accumulate within the sag, blocking the line, and again cancel out the lines ability to vent.

Don't forget, the idea is for the pump to suck oil as long as the Tee fitting contains oil. Once empty, the vent line is exposed causing the pump to suck "air" from the vent line... which beats sucking the turbo bearing dry by the way. My vent line ends at the crankcase breather. In my case I replaced the original domed breather with a flat one then tapped it for a fitting and that's where I connected the other end of my vent line. The idea is, even if I completely filled my vent line with oil, 95% of it would drain all the way back to the Tee and the other 5% at the very top of the vent line would drain into the motor, but no oil would accumulate in the line anywhere.

BTW, since the vent lines only purpose is to permit the pump to suck "air" when there is no oil in the return line, a 1/4" line is enough. I wouldn't go any smaller or any larger.

Sorry if I got carried away with my explanations but I hope this helps.

 

[kawiboy11]

So is this a venting issue with oil shooting out the pump housing where it meets the crankcase cover?

 

[Mr Bogus]

So is this a venting issue with oil shooting out the pump housing where it meets the crankcase cover?

I would have to guess no... the venting only stops the pump from pulling air past the bearings (sucks in from the wheel side of the shaft)

Oil leak is a different issue.. pull the pump loose and check the mating surfaces for garbage

 

[65Cobra]

So is this a venting issue with oil shooting out the pump housing where it meets the crankcase cover?

Did I miss something? There was no mention of oil shooting out the pump housing prior to my post. I was oly addressing the fittings and vent line issues. Is there another thread I need to read? I'll try and help but I need to know what's going on first.

 

[kawiboy11]

Yes, was running for about 30 seconds, then pump started bubbling out oil from where it seals on the crankcase. Then it got much worse so we shut it off. Thats the problem, I just don't know why it did it, I mean there isnt that much pressure in the motor is there?

Cody???

 

[65Cobra]

That doesn't sound like a problem with the vent line, although you might want to make sure your vent line agrees with the comments I posted earlier just to make sure. What size is your vent line anyway?

One thing I would recommend is to take a break until you can get yourself in the right frame of mind, then re-read the instructions carefully while you think about each step and picture what you did during the installation. We all make dumb mistakes and sometimes this will help you find it.

Otherwise, I'm assuming the crankcase cover is still on the motor with the oil pump in place. If so, grab the oil pump body with your fingers and see if you can rotate it at all. Don't use a lot of force but you shouldn't be able to turn it. If it turns that means either you didn't tighten the fixture plate screws enough or you tightened them too much and cracked the fixture plate.

Another way to crack the fixture plate is to tighten down the crankcase cover without making sure the oil pump shaft is properly seated in the socket head cap screw. If not, the fixture plate will crack as you tighten the bolts.

Whether or not you can rotate the oil pump body, you'll need to remove the crankcase cover. If the oil pump did rotate you need to find out why, and if it didn't rotate, you need to get inside for further inspection of the pump, o-ring and fixture plate. Assuming you need to remove the oil pump from the cover, pay attention to how it was installed just to make sure you didn't install something incorrectly. Take pictures if you think it will help.

I'll wait for you to get back to me.

 

[cdhoroho]

is the bolt it spins off of spinning true? if not then that could be your issue ive seen that happen and the whole pump ripped out of the cover

but that was a few yrs ago and i dont remember who it was bought from but same pump style

also check the o-ring on the part


another thing is when running that vent line to the crankcase vent youll still need to have the crank case vent vented to the atmosphere

 

[65Cobra]

Pinky brings up a good point I forgot about because it's been two years since I've thought about that pump. The pump needs to fit perfectly into the hole in the crankcase cover. I recall having to force mine into the cover which can cause two problems. If the pump doesn't sit flat in the cover, the pump shaft will wobble while it rotates and the o-ring won't seal evenly. In my case, it was the thickness of the paint on the cover that was causing the problem, so I took some very fine wet/dry sandpaper and removed the paint in the area of the cover where the pump makes contact. Do this to the cover only... do NOT try to sand the pump at all. If you have this problem, take your time sanding and use very fine sandpaper. The idea is to just remove the paint and not alter the surface area of the aluminum cover. In fact the surface area should end up smoother with the paint off, than with it on. Thanks for chiming in Pinky.

 

[65Cobra]

I prefer to address your PM here kawiboy11 because PM messages leave everyone else out of the loop, which is probably why I was missing information about oil shooting out the pump housing earlier.

Your check valve should be fine where it's at and tapping the crankcase vent should work too. I probably don't need to say this but make sure you remove the vent before you drill and tap it, and clean away any trace of metal.

As far as the vent line is concerned, it should always slope upward, with one exception... you can have the very end of the line turn downward to dump the oil, i.e. into the crankcase. In that situation you still won't have any sags in the line, only a hump. Oil shouldn't get up that far, but if oil could reach the hump, once pressure eases off the oil in one half the hump will flow back down to the Tee fitting, and the oil in the other half of the hump will flow into the crankcase... in other words it won't accumulate anywhere. Not only do you have a sag in your line, but the sag falls below the level of the Tee, which is the worst case scenario.

Whether the vent line is your problem or not I don't know but my prior posts address other issues. The point is, even if your problem is not the vent line, you still need to route the vent line properly (no sags) regardless, so you don't end up with another problem later on.

 

[kawiboy11]

is the bolt it spins off of spinning true? if not then that could be your issue ive seen that happen and the whole pump ripped out of the cover

but that was a few yrs ago and i dont remember who it was bought from but same pump style

also check the o-ring on the part


another thing is when running that vent line to the crankcase vent youll still need to have the crank case vent vented to the atmosphere

yes, it is still vented to the atmosphere, like on a stock bike.

 

[65Cobra]

kawiboy11... just wondering if you made any progress.

 

[turbobusa2000]

Gotta love those SBK forks. Sick bro, sick.

 

[dubious]

Damn!
Nice bike! WoW...

where are you guys getting these pumps?

 

[kawiboy11]

From Sweden!