macbusa
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Sad Story
- Thread starter Narcissus
- Start date
Wow... no words...only sadness
jonhpt2001
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I really don't know what too say...that admin note about killed me!
Dude... until you have gone through a painful experience that leaves your life changed, I wouldn't talk about "condeming to hell."
Most people's experiences are to be sick and then to get better; be in pain, but the pain will subside... Unfortunetly, there are some that experience "chronic" pain... Pain that doesn't go away, that doesn't subside, and NEVER lets up... Imagine it!
I had a back injury that left me crippled for a year and half... What I wouldn't have given to eliminate the pain. At the end I was suicidal, my life was falling apart in every aspect, I was on meds that made me angry, and the doctors couldn't seem to help. I had thought many times about how I wouldn't mind getting the leg amputated(Nerve Pain from back) to remove the pain. At least at that point I could go on with my life. To live in pain is not to live.
You can't begin to understand how your mental state starts to become after you realize that what hurts won't heal and the doctors can't even find the cause. You can't think about anything but the pain... this rules out work, play, wives, kids, and anything else that may be some joy to you... I was fortunate; I was finally able to find a doctor that could help and the pain I endured was over in a two-hour surgery. The night before surgery, I didn't sleep a wink because I couldn't have any pain killers prior to the surgery. When I arrived at the surgical center, the doctors put me down and opened me up. The surgeon stated that the herination was so bad that I ranked in the <5 percentile of extreme symptoms from a disk herniation at L5-S1. The doctor couldn't beleive that my pain specialist was only giving me ultrum for the pain all this time. When I woke up from the surgery, I was painless! The post-surgical pain that they gave me all the heavy pain killers for was NOTHING compared to what I was going through prior...
Sorry to drag on and I don't want to deter from the person this thread was originally started for, but I think its important that some of you that don't understand pain very well, to open your mind up a bit to "How you would feel if you were living a daily life of torture." Many choose death and I beleive I would have done the same if I had to keep living that life of pain for the rest of my life.
Eric, rest in peace brother and you have nothing but my sympathy. May God show you mercy for your circumstances...
Cloud
P.S... For those of you that just read his original post, he gives a lot more detail further down the thread...
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Not to start taking this topic to another level, but I've learned through dealing with many around me that have suffered incredible trauma and/or are facing terminal diseases that it's ultimately up to that person what one can tolerate...
It might not have just been the pain he was in...it might have been incredibly bad news of something else he didn't share with others...something that would make his life and living day to day unbearable...no one wants to see someone commit suicide, but I've known people that have, and I've known people that want to...believe me, that's not what they want out of life...they want better, they want to have everything just FIXED, but there are mental states and physical limitations that give some pause, and unfortunately, some don't know any other way to fix the situation...
Without personally knowing Eric, it could have been severe depression, it could have been news of something terminally wrong since the accident, it could have been the feeling of being a tremendous burden on those he loves for the rest of his life...it's not what he wanted out of life...it's the only answer he had...that alone makes me feel incredibly sad for him, and I hope if there is something else for us after we die, he's now at peace...
Not to step on anyone's toes here, but not a single person should judge what he did...try to understand it if you can, try to imagine what state of mind it takes to see that as a solution, and try to have sympathy for him as well as his family and friends...he didn't want to die...it's what he felt would end whatever he couldn't tolerate anymore...it's a sad story, and one that none of us want to ever encounter in our own lives...
I've always found it amusing that humans hate to see animals suffer...those of us with pets know that when they are hurt or terminal, we do the humane thing by putting them down...not condoning that we even open the door to helping people commit suicide, but I do find it so odd that we almost hold more compassion for our pets than loved ones...we wouldn't have them suffer until the bitter end, yet humans must? Just food for thought...
It might not have just been the pain he was in...it might have been incredibly bad news of something else he didn't share with others...something that would make his life and living day to day unbearable...no one wants to see someone commit suicide, but I've known people that have, and I've known people that want to...believe me, that's not what they want out of life...they want better, they want to have everything just FIXED, but there are mental states and physical limitations that give some pause, and unfortunately, some don't know any other way to fix the situation...
Without personally knowing Eric, it could have been severe depression, it could have been news of something terminally wrong since the accident, it could have been the feeling of being a tremendous burden on those he loves for the rest of his life...it's not what he wanted out of life...it's the only answer he had...that alone makes me feel incredibly sad for him, and I hope if there is something else for us after we die, he's now at peace...
Not to step on anyone's toes here, but not a single person should judge what he did...try to understand it if you can, try to imagine what state of mind it takes to see that as a solution, and try to have sympathy for him as well as his family and friends...he didn't want to die...it's what he felt would end whatever he couldn't tolerate anymore...it's a sad story, and one that none of us want to ever encounter in our own lives...
I've always found it amusing that humans hate to see animals suffer...those of us with pets know that when they are hurt or terminal, we do the humane thing by putting them down...not condoning that we even open the door to helping people commit suicide, but I do find it so odd that we almost hold more compassion for our pets than loved ones...we wouldn't have them suffer until the bitter end, yet humans must? Just food for thought...
Agree 110% VaB... Ultimately it is your mental state that kills you...
Cloud
#cruncherbusa
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BD, If you were his wife, child, girlfriend, mother/father or close friend. Would you like to read a comment as such as this over internet? Until you are in his shoes, you can't say what is best for him, these comments were very inappropriate due to the timing. May his soul R.I.P.
Ok, these are one of the those gray areas I normally don’t touch on unless I feel a specific leading. On. When I first read BD’s post I left it alone. But due to #cruncherbusa’s comments I feel lead to offer a response.
I used to feel a long time ago when I was younger that suicide would send you to hell. This was something that was passed down to me verbally and something you often hear from people. I think the thought alone that if you commit suicide you will go to hell often helps and deters people form committing suicide. For this reason I normally don’t correct people with my opinion about the matter. Unless the suicide has already taken place, I then offer my opinion as a way to offer comfort to those who are left behind.
BD, with this in mind, I want to say I mean no disrespect to you, your beliefs or your religion, we all believe what we believe. And I am no better no worse than anyone else and my truth for what it is worth is my truth. And what might even hold true for someone at one time in their life will change at a later time. We are all given what we need when we need it. Hence the term living bible.
Ok, with that disclaimer made.
And with that disclaimer also, I don’t make a habit of pushing religion on anyone, I talk about God when I feel led to, I wait for the leading of the spirit. I do not make apologies for my faith, nor the God I serve, but I do try to be considerate of those that don’t believe.
And if someone does not want to hear about God, then I don’t push it.
Because unless you have a personal relationship with God / Jesus, nothing us Christians talc about make sense and usually offends those who have not been saved
So with that said people. This starts to get spiritual form this point forward, so be warned. And please take no offense.
My belief is that the bible states the ONLY unforgivable sin is Blasphemy of the holy spirit. Ok, with that stated, that means all other sins are forgivable.
Ok, what about the argument that you cannot be forgiven for a sin until it is committed and suicide is not a sin until the deed is finished, and then when you are dead and cant ask for forgiveness.
Well, not to slam Catholics or anything, but that is based on the premise that you HAVE to ask forgiveness for every sin you commit, something that Catholics practice.
If you however go by the written word that is available to all (the bible). When Jesus died on the Cross, he became our champion so to speak. We deal with him directly as Christians, we no longer require a priest to act on our behalf, we are not reuired to confess our sins to another human, we are not accountable to any other humans, only to God himself.
Once you accept Jesus as your savior and ask forgiveness. Done deal, you are now forgiven for all past present and future sin’s once you become saved. That is it. So with that in mind, if you commit suicide, that is something that even if it is a “sin†you are forgiven for.
And the entire “past, present, future†issue is a means of measurement that us humans have established in order to have a reference to our existence and our limited comprehension of the universe as it exists. In heave we are free from timelines and references there is no “past, present future†there just is…. Just as God was once referred to as “I AM†not to plagerrize someone else’s comment often used, but it is appropriate here. This is to those that have an ear to hear, let them hear
Ok, what if the person is dead and they were not a Christian? Were not saved?
Jesus was once made a statement that it is easier for a camel to pass through the eye of a needle than for a rich man to enter heaven, his audience was freaked out by that statement, the audinace replied how could such a man enter heaven then? And Jesus’s reply was that with God all things are possible.
God in the bible in the past has stopped time in order to accomplish tasks. None of us knows what our deceased loved ones experienced the last moments of their life.
You could have a parent to your knowledge NEVER EVER believed in God and always said it was a bunch of crap, you have no idea what the last minutes of that persons life was like, you don’t know if an angel appeared to that person and gave them once last chance to accept God, wether in the confinement of their own mind, of weather time was stopped, or maybe that person was allowed to see an angel in the room and others were not.
The point is, you have no idea if a person was given a final personal invitation by God himself in the last moments of their life.
Well some might think “well that is a crock, so a person can sin and do bad things all their life and at the last minute be saved and go to heaven while other try to live a good life and NOT partake in the pleasures of the world!!!
Yeah, could be. Deal with it. There is a parable in the bible that address’s that very issue, has to do with a farmer / land owner who hired people to work his land. He hire some people and offered them a wage, a time later he hired additional people and offered them the same wage, and this happened a few times more. In the end when the work was finished some had worked for only a couple of hours, while some had worked for days, but they were all paid the same amount of money, the people who had worked for days were ticked that they toiled so long and only received the same wages of those who only worked a few hours, when they complained the land owner asked them why they were upset, they were paid what they agreed on, the were done no wrong.
The same as salvation, and that is what the bible was make a reference to. Don’t begrudge God his gift of salvation to those who might have receive it only moments before their death. Be happy for them, and rejoice in your own salvation.
Ok, that is enough that of that.
Now to those of you that might read this post and have read my other posts about my attitude of taking another’s life and my attitude about other things. You might think I am a hypocrite. All I have to say is whatever. I am at peace with God and my beliefs. If you do not believe in God, then you don’t have the right to call me a hypocrite. If you do believe in God then if you think I am screwed up and need help, then instead of thinking of me as a hypocrite, just say a prayer for me. Either God will straighten me out, or he will change your perception.
In any event. I am at peace with my beliefs.
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jfksmith
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PEOPLE OFTEN TAKE THEIR LIVES THINKING IT WILL BE EASIER WITHOUT THE DAY TO DAY GRIND WE ALL FACE, NOT THINKING OF THE PAIN THAT THEIR ACTIONS LEAVE BEHIND FOR OTHERS TO FACE THE GRIND PLUS THE GRIEF THAT LOSS LEAVES. GOD BLESS YOU BUT NOW YOUR SON HAS TO FACE LIFE WITHOUT YOUR HELP OR GUIDANCE... UNFORTUNATELY NO ONE GETS A SECOND CHANCE TO CHANGE THEIR MIND...
simplecity2houston
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Like most dangerous things in life, I guess all too often you think about that bad accident when you're killed instantly and your heirs collect on the life insurance, mourn your passing, etc. etc. I guess that we try not to give too much thought to those situations where your life gets totally and completely changed, seemingly for the worst: the wheelchair, the ventilator, the mangled hands, blindness, brain damage, etc. etc. This guy spent two months enduring a torture that I'm sure made death seem like a blessing.
Many will probably condemn his action as a sin, etc. etc. blah, blah, blah. However, I would like to think that the God I believe in would recognize that this was a man who was tested far beyond his ability to cope and he will forgive him for the action he took.
Many will probably condemn his action as a sin, etc. etc. blah, blah, blah. However, I would like to think that the God I believe in would recognize that this was a man who was tested far beyond his ability to cope and he will forgive him for the action he took.
Just thought I would add something that it does not seem anyone has mentioned, if they did I missed it.
On top of all the issues the guy was dealing with that he mentioned, there had to be an enormous amount of medical bills piling up, and maybe it was getting to the point he could not even afford to pay for treatment, or meds.
When you are that jacked up, even if you HAD a good job with awesome benafits and good sick leave, nothing lasts forever.
For all we know, the best he might have been able to hope for was to file bankruptcy to try and get out from under all the bills, with all of his disabilities, probably would have been difficult to go back to work, or find new work.
Etc. etc. I cannot sit here and say it was the best way out. But when I was younger I had tough times and I thought about sucide. I had a good friend who did commit suicide.
I am glad I never did, and I allways think about what my friend missed out on, of all things, he killed himself over a girl and a relationship.... It hurts me and bothers me often to think that not only he took his own life, but in comparison, Eric seemed to have a good reason for doing it. Not saying it was the best solution, but he had far better a reason than my friend, and a far better reason than others have for taking their lives often.
I guess to sum it up for me, some part of me wishes he didn’t take his life and that he would have found another way, but I can sympathize and understand, and if I can, a feeble self centered hypocritical human can understand, I am sure God can do a much better job of understanding than I.
In the end, it all amounts to one thing, his life and the end of his life is between him and God. There I don’t think is one person on this planet that can state with any certainty anything about the situation. I don’t think any of us even knew him, I didn’t.
But my thoughts and heart still go out to him and more so the ones that are left to have to deal with this tragedy.
On top of all the issues the guy was dealing with that he mentioned, there had to be an enormous amount of medical bills piling up, and maybe it was getting to the point he could not even afford to pay for treatment, or meds.
When you are that jacked up, even if you HAD a good job with awesome benafits and good sick leave, nothing lasts forever.
For all we know, the best he might have been able to hope for was to file bankruptcy to try and get out from under all the bills, with all of his disabilities, probably would have been difficult to go back to work, or find new work.
Etc. etc. I cannot sit here and say it was the best way out. But when I was younger I had tough times and I thought about sucide. I had a good friend who did commit suicide.
I am glad I never did, and I allways think about what my friend missed out on, of all things, he killed himself over a girl and a relationship.... It hurts me and bothers me often to think that not only he took his own life, but in comparison, Eric seemed to have a good reason for doing it. Not saying it was the best solution, but he had far better a reason than my friend, and a far better reason than others have for taking their lives often.
I guess to sum it up for me, some part of me wishes he didn’t take his life and that he would have found another way, but I can sympathize and understand, and if I can, a feeble self centered hypocritical human can understand, I am sure God can do a much better job of understanding than I.
In the end, it all amounts to one thing, his life and the end of his life is between him and God. There I don’t think is one person on this planet that can state with any certainty anything about the situation. I don’t think any of us even knew him, I didn’t.
But my thoughts and heart still go out to him and more so the ones that are left to have to deal with this tragedy.
Very sad...after reading these posts...Sheez...I appreciate Narissus sharing this with us...A huge slap in the face....of reality..what can happen to anyone..does not have to be a MC crash....But we are vulnerable on two wheels........I have said before..we who ride must "ALWAYS" consider ourselves "INVISABLE" at all times...We might it make to old age....Ride as defensive as possible at all times.
May he rest in peace..and his son be well....
Ps on Suicide...even something like severe "Tinituss" makes one think of the "S" word.
May he rest in peace..and his son be well....
Ps on Suicide...even something like severe "Tinituss" makes one think of the "S" word.
MeltDownZ
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thrasherfox,
This is a pretty heavy thread. One, which forces us to face many realities we'd rather not address day to day.
I'd prefer not to comment on the content of what you said, only to thank you for your thoughts. There's a lot to be learned from not only what you said but how you presented it.
Religion and judgement aside, I hope that Erics story reminds us of the possible dangers inherent in motorcycling. Hopefully, this story sticks in the back of our minds and helps us make to make better decisions when balancing fun and risk.
If you were moved by this story, I challenge you to sit on your bike just before going out the next time and ask yourself, "What am I going to do differently as a result of Eric's story?"
Thrasherfox and MeltDownZ, you two got it right. I'm a highly critical son-of-a-bitch (I'm a university professor, and it comes with the territory), but it takes some kind of balls to say anything about that poor guy and his suicide. How dare anyone spout off some religious dogma regarding his situation. "It gets better"? WTF? HE LOST HIS HANDS. He lost his hands, and some board members want to talk about Jesus. I see no correlation. Actually, there's NOTHING anyone could have said to him..."I know what you went through"? "Dude, that sucks"? What a bunch of inconsiderate a**holes!
Thrasherfox is right. Shut yer religious mouths. I'm a Zen Buddhist (the religion of no-religion), and I tell myself everyday, "Shut yer religious mouth." And MeltDownZ is right. He just said, "Shut yer mouth and learn."
Put it all down, show some compassion, and live. And pick up a book on Zen or go visit your local Zen center. You can be whatever religion you are and be Zen, and you just might lose that sharp-tongued jerk that tells you to kick a dead man. That wasn't right at all.
Thrasherfox is right. Shut yer religious mouths. I'm a Zen Buddhist (the religion of no-religion), and I tell myself everyday, "Shut yer religious mouth." And MeltDownZ is right. He just said, "Shut yer mouth and learn."
Put it all down, show some compassion, and live. And pick up a book on Zen or go visit your local Zen center. You can be whatever religion you are and be Zen, and you just might lose that sharp-tongued jerk that tells you to kick a dead man. That wasn't right at all.
Ouch...some pretty heavy words up there VFRGuy...
I think everyone just needs to understand and embrace differences in us all...I don't mind that someone's religion dictates right from wrong for them...it's what they use for guidance in life, and no one's going to change their mind just because someone else disagrees...
I guess the flip side to that is that while I can admire someone religious in their beliefs, I never understand why they think that rings true for everyone else...we're all so different in our upbringing and beliefs...not one of us can state without a doubt what's right vs. what's wrong...it's all based on subjective beliefs and experiences...aside from knowing that assaulting human rights is wrong, none of us can sit in judgment over what someone else has done...
Having said that, I'd like to maintain respect for everyone on here and remind myself that everyone's entitled to their own opinions and beliefs...
I do agree with MeltDownZ's statement "What am I going to do differently as a result of Eric's story?" Me? I made damn sure I put my gloves on, despite almost taking off without them...he was in my thoughts all day yesterday while I rode...that's the most we can gain from his story...not a reason to fight...
I think everyone just needs to understand and embrace differences in us all...I don't mind that someone's religion dictates right from wrong for them...it's what they use for guidance in life, and no one's going to change their mind just because someone else disagrees...
I guess the flip side to that is that while I can admire someone religious in their beliefs, I never understand why they think that rings true for everyone else...we're all so different in our upbringing and beliefs...not one of us can state without a doubt what's right vs. what's wrong...it's all based on subjective beliefs and experiences...aside from knowing that assaulting human rights is wrong, none of us can sit in judgment over what someone else has done...
Having said that, I'd like to maintain respect for everyone on here and remind myself that everyone's entitled to their own opinions and beliefs...
I do agree with MeltDownZ's statement "What am I going to do differently as a result of Eric's story?" Me? I made damn sure I put my gloves on, despite almost taking off without them...he was in my thoughts all day yesterday while I rode...that's the most we can gain from his story...not a reason to fight...
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