Scary Noise Or No Big Deal?
- Thread starter SR-71
- Start date
turbojonny
Registered
He has. It may be a valve train issue.
Rivercop UK
Registered
Something is hitting something there. Its far to loud to be a spark.
Not the right noise, but when running can you feel gas escaping around any of the header pipes - like its popped an exhaust gasket?
Not the right noise, but when running can you feel gas escaping around any of the header pipes - like its popped an exhaust gasket?
Hello everyone and many thanks to turbo Johnny,
I think I observed the problem… Of course it was due to your analysis and suggestions so I can't take any of the credit …
Here's what I believe is happened…
The bad load of fuel was so severe that is totally clogged and encrusted the top of the Pistons… (the fuel I removed the tank was a brackish dark brown)
When I did the borescope inspection The Pistons were hardly visible there was only a very small clean round circle devoid of crud exposing a small circle of the piston directly below where the spark plug must be firing. The rest the top of the piston was not visible because it was encrusted with crud it's hard to judge how much because of the borescope but it was quite a bit… I was so intent in findings something in one of the cylinders … That I couldn't see the forest because there were so many trees
Let me add that the Pistons are so crud infested that it's something more than just carbon… through the borescope it looks like a shiny dime depressed into blacktop… the dime being the round clear spot and the blacktop the crud buildup encasing and surrounding the dime and fully covering the top of the piston…The best analogy I can come up with
I believe my next step is to try and clean the top of the piston with the plugs removed I was thinking about using a can of spray carburetor cleaner (sprayed under pressure into each cylinder via the plug hole) to help break it up…And let it sit for a while…then reinstall the plugs start the motor and run it to remove the crud from the tops of the Pistons and run it out to the exhaust… what do you think?
I could really use some help and suggestions as to how to clean the top of the Pistons without breaking the motor down
Thanks very much,
Yours truly,
SR 71
I think I observed the problem… Of course it was due to your analysis and suggestions so I can't take any of the credit …
Here's what I believe is happened…
The bad load of fuel was so severe that is totally clogged and encrusted the top of the Pistons… (the fuel I removed the tank was a brackish dark brown)
When I did the borescope inspection The Pistons were hardly visible there was only a very small clean round circle devoid of crud exposing a small circle of the piston directly below where the spark plug must be firing. The rest the top of the piston was not visible because it was encrusted with crud it's hard to judge how much because of the borescope but it was quite a bit… I was so intent in findings something in one of the cylinders … That I couldn't see the forest because there were so many trees
Let me add that the Pistons are so crud infested that it's something more than just carbon… through the borescope it looks like a shiny dime depressed into blacktop… the dime being the round clear spot and the blacktop the crud buildup encasing and surrounding the dime and fully covering the top of the piston…The best analogy I can come up with
I believe my next step is to try and clean the top of the piston with the plugs removed I was thinking about using a can of spray carburetor cleaner (sprayed under pressure into each cylinder via the plug hole) to help break it up…And let it sit for a while…then reinstall the plugs start the motor and run it to remove the crud from the tops of the Pistons and run it out to the exhaust… what do you think?
I could really use some help and suggestions as to how to clean the top of the Pistons without breaking the motor down
Thanks very much,
Yours truly,
SR 71
Rivercop UK
Registered
Be VERY careful putting anything in the cylinders then putting the plugs back in. If there's too much fluid you will hydro-lock the bike and you could toast the engine.
Put whatever cleaner in overnight, and then turn the engine over without the plugs in to remove any excess fluid. Then recheck with the scope. Carry on until they look clean - Could take a few applications. Only then would I try to fire her up. Bear in mind you will probably get a small amount of whatever leaking into your oil past the piston seals. So after its sorted get an oil change done.
If the petrol was that bad, its probably left gunk throughout the fuel system, so would also recommend checking the filters and running seafoam in fresh fuel through the bike.
Put whatever cleaner in overnight, and then turn the engine over without the plugs in to remove any excess fluid. Then recheck with the scope. Carry on until they look clean - Could take a few applications. Only then would I try to fire her up. Bear in mind you will probably get a small amount of whatever leaking into your oil past the piston seals. So after its sorted get an oil change done.
If the petrol was that bad, its probably left gunk throughout the fuel system, so would also recommend checking the filters and running seafoam in fresh fuel through the bike.
dave s
Registered
Am I correct in saying noise started after plug change ,if so check the plugs are the correct plugs for bike,ie check number on plugs itself Not just the box as I have had a spark plug placed in the wrong box before (for a car).Probably plugs fell out in stores shop and then put back in wrong box.If it was ok before then it has to be something you have done!!, sounds like a spark jumping to me. I wouldn't spray any thing down bores.one other thing the spark plugs are all gaped !! 1, check plugs are correct 2, check plug gaps
Hi everyone,,
Just to keep everybody advise I have made a couple of previous posts
In which I detailed that I remove pump, thoroughly cleaned the pickup, fuel pressure back to normal, and fuel is running clear. Then I removed injectors cleaned the fuel screens…
My current plan is to Pour Berryman's B12 down each cylinder and let it sit for 24 to 48 hours… Then put shop towels in each cylinder hole run the starter to remove any excess fluid… Thus avoiding Hydro shock…
How much Berryman should I put in each cylinder? And does anybody have a better method of removing the treatment after 24 to 48 hours
all helpful suggestions and comments will be greatly appreciated please chime in if you think I'm making a mistake…
Thanks everyone,
Yours truly,
SR 71
Just to keep everybody advise I have made a couple of previous posts
In which I detailed that I remove pump, thoroughly cleaned the pickup, fuel pressure back to normal, and fuel is running clear. Then I removed injectors cleaned the fuel screens…
My current plan is to Pour Berryman's B12 down each cylinder and let it sit for 24 to 48 hours… Then put shop towels in each cylinder hole run the starter to remove any excess fluid… Thus avoiding Hydro shock…
How much Berryman should I put in each cylinder? And does anybody have a better method of removing the treatment after 24 to 48 hours
all helpful suggestions and comments will be greatly appreciated please chime in if you think I'm making a mistake…
Thanks everyone,
Yours truly,
SR 71
It's always hard to get an understanding of what you're listening to from a video. Audio usually doesn't give a perfect representation of what you are listening to(but does sound like top end to me).
With that said; It's extremely odd to hear a sound that sounds like engine failure...yet the bike rev and run fine. You would expect that with that noise that something would've broke by now, or at least developed a dead miss.
Since it hasn't, I would check something unexpected. The starter. Yes, it sounds crazy, and I've been reluctant to post this because of it. But, years back, I heard an early 90s CBR600 make a very similiar racket.
We assumed it was about to fly apart.
A friend of mine bought it anyway, with the intention of rebuilding it. He found something broken in the starter(forget exactly which piece).
Replaced the starter, and the bike was quiet and ran perfect.
Now, I'm not saying that's the problem, because it definately sounds like the top end.
But, it wouldn't be the first time I've seen something totally unexpected cause strange problems.
With that said; It's extremely odd to hear a sound that sounds like engine failure...yet the bike rev and run fine. You would expect that with that noise that something would've broke by now, or at least developed a dead miss.
Since it hasn't, I would check something unexpected. The starter. Yes, it sounds crazy, and I've been reluctant to post this because of it. But, years back, I heard an early 90s CBR600 make a very similiar racket.
We assumed it was about to fly apart.
A friend of mine bought it anyway, with the intention of rebuilding it. He found something broken in the starter(forget exactly which piece).
Replaced the starter, and the bike was quiet and ran perfect.
Now, I'm not saying that's the problem, because it definately sounds like the top end.
But, it wouldn't be the first time I've seen something totally unexpected cause strange problems.
mike04busa
Registered
I would do a compression test like stated before. If you have a low cylinder that's where you start looking. If that passes then check the valve clearances. That way you can tell if there is anything going on under the valve cover. Check the timing chain, tensioner and guides also. The stethoscope should help determine if it's top or lower end. Anything that moves or turns should be checked. I wish I was closer so I can check it out. Finding out if the noise is going the speed of the crank or camshafts can help pin point it also. Have you removed the cam chain tension and looked at it?
Last edited:
hi everyone,
I have a bit of an update
I used the stethoscope and I was able to narrow down where I believe the sound is coming from… It sounds like it's coming from somewhere inside or behind where the black cover for the clutch pack is located… Right side if you're sitting on the bike facing forward
Although I did hear the sounds when I put the stethoscope to the starter but I believe that was just because of the close proximity
Let me add one little tidbit it does not make a difference when I engage the clutch sound stays the same if it's in gear or neutral
I hope this is good news…
tell me what you guys think
Thanks again
SR 71
I have a bit of an update
I used the stethoscope and I was able to narrow down where I believe the sound is coming from… It sounds like it's coming from somewhere inside or behind where the black cover for the clutch pack is located… Right side if you're sitting on the bike facing forward
Although I did hear the sounds when I put the stethoscope to the starter but I believe that was just because of the close proximity
Let me add one little tidbit it does not make a difference when I engage the clutch sound stays the same if it's in gear or neutral
I hope this is good news…
tell me what you guys think
Thanks again
SR 71
I'de pull clutch cover.
Possibility the pressure plate bolts have backed out. There was a recall on 08/09 gen2s for that, no thread lock at factory.
Could also be something else broken or loose in there.
With the bike on the kickstand you can remove the clutch cover. No oil will spill out.
At least you can easily eliminate a few things with the clutch cover off, or maybe even find the problem.
Possibility the pressure plate bolts have backed out. There was a recall on 08/09 gen2s for that, no thread lock at factory.
Could also be something else broken or loose in there.
With the bike on the kickstand you can remove the clutch cover. No oil will spill out.
At least you can easily eliminate a few things with the clutch cover off, or maybe even find the problem.
turbojonny
Registered
Hmmm. Maybe a clutch spring bolt backed out? I would think there would be a bit of a noise difference with the clutch pulled though. I still think it would be money well spent to have a pro look at it.
Hello everyone,
I have an update
sent the bike to the repair shop they seem to think it's a camshaft – tappet problem… Possibly the head…but they haven't disassembled it yet
So I guess my question to everyone is pros and cons:
1. About either repair and replace with stock parts
2 or possibly purchasing a ported and polished head with upgraded cams from eBay
From the research I've done I believe the cost of the parts of be approximately the same
thanks in advance for all your input it'll be greatly appreciated
Yours truly,
SR 71
I have an update
sent the bike to the repair shop they seem to think it's a camshaft – tappet problem… Possibly the head…but they haven't disassembled it yet
So I guess my question to everyone is pros and cons:
1. About either repair and replace with stock parts
2 or possibly purchasing a ported and polished head with upgraded cams from eBay
From the research I've done I believe the cost of the parts of be approximately the same
thanks in advance for all your input it'll be greatly appreciated
Yours truly,
SR 71
turbojonny
Registered
I would suggest a big negative on the eBay ported head. This will likely start pages of debate, but porting jobs can actually make the head perform worse if not done properly.
I love eBay so much that I order even socks and underwear on there. LOL! But, I know I wouldn't order such an item from eBay even if it was half the cost of buying from reputable shop. Too much of a risk IMHO. If you want to go that route, just use a site sponsor. Imagine getting that "deal" on eBay just to pay the shop to put it in and then having issues and having to take everything apart again. I'm sure the eBay seller won't reimburse your labor money.
If your looking for a real nice head and Cams, I have a Full CNC KWS motorsports head. Never ran, nor installed.
Web Cams and adjustable sprockets. 395 intake/ 378 exhaust.
Cams have been run for about 6k in a 1441 motor.
Paid $1900 for the head alone.
Everything for $1900 TYD
If your interested, Pm me for Pics!
Web Cams and adjustable sprockets. 395 intake/ 378 exhaust.
Cams have been run for about 6k in a 1441 motor.
Paid $1900 for the head alone.
Everything for $1900 TYD
If your interested, Pm me for Pics!
mike04busa
Registered
If a cam and or the head is no good, maybe a cam journal is ground up or a lobe is ground down? Where did the debris go that would be ground off of the cam or head? That stuff gets just about everywhere oil gets. There may be collateral damage.
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