Single Topic Debate #16

[Projekt]

Here is another thing I think about on occasion.
Being that I was raised Catholic (Mexican fear style) I think I am qualified to raise this issue.
Are Catholics misguided and culturally fearful people? All for that illusion of salvation and a ticket to heaven?
Or are they just good people paying tithes to God.. Buying their ride on the escalator (stairway) to heaven?
Are the leaders of the church genuinely and divinely motivated men or are they just out to continue the Roman Empire and it's taxation of it's subjects. It started more than two thousand years ago and was labeled the Holy Roman Empire at the hands of Constantine circa anno domini 324.
Can anybody share their perpective of the church it's right and wrong doings? How about why the Vatican is guarded by the Swiss Guards? (I know why but do you?)
Does anyone know why (without googling or wikipedia'ing it) CH is the symbol for Switzerland? Who they pay taxes to? And why they have been respected as a neutral nation for so long? (I know why but do you).

 

[chrisjp]

i am a recovering catholic....alterboy till 18 (no..got lucky no kinky priests)....and my parents think i am in a cult since i got out....catholics are just like every other religious "system" in the world....on a heavely way to hell....to much human "control".... my imput...read for yourself and get your own education and deal one on one..

 

[thepushercg]

misguided. i will post more later on what i think. good topic projekt

 

[Devious]

The Swiss are there to guard their Cash Cow...
And as for Catholics in general...
I'm somewhat against the Religion, but only because of how the Catholics are in South Texas...
It is the most corrupt religion of the bunch...
Please understand, I do not feel this way about the Catholic religion elsewhere...
But...
Here, a Catholic Priest can get shItfaced and grope/molest children, in public, and it's accepted...
Since, afterall, the Catholic Priest is considered next to God himself...


David

 

[Wrath]

It was not until I left the Catholic faith that I actually found a place that could better explain the bible & back it up. The Traditions of the church seems to out weigh the importance of haveing a personal relationship with JC. Most Catholic seem to go throught the motions or sleep through the services as traditional mass seems to do nothing for them. But to have the bible open infront of you, read & explained/shared brings a new light as to what life is really all about. Questions are remakably answered. Not something I was ever able to achieve though the Catholic Church.

 

[onerabidshark]

most of my best friends are catholic, from what I can see from the OUTSIDE OF COURSE, its misguided, finding heaven is supposed to be like walking a tightrope (what you do your whole life) how you lived been good your whole life, where (from what I see) the catholic religion is to forgiving, go kill someone, go steal what you want, go fornicate, go commit adultry, molest a bunch of little boys(sorry had to get that in there) as long as you confess your sins on sunday HEY YOU"RE GOOD TO GO you can start all over, cause I know there is another sunday coming up Just my opinion of course

 

[Projekt]

That's exactly what I mean..
When I go home to visit I realize more and more how deeply a religion is actually the root of culture. My mom, aunts, and various others just have a different way of thinking. The world to them is full of impossibilities and limited to what they can do between Sundays and going to mass. When there is a problem they don't think to solve it, rather they go to church make an offering (ransom for help) and ask for a special mass to help them through the hard time. They would rather spend their small earnings at mass than to make them multiply themselves.

 

[MrGxr]

I escaped the cat-lic church when I was around 18 or so... raised a good cat-lic boy, alterboy that was there 3-4 times a week for mass, always had a Priest or Nun over to the house for Sunday dinner, actually considered them like Aunts and Uncles, then one day I asked the Priest about something I read in the bible... "Does Jesus have Brothers and Sisters?" "If so, does that mean that Mary was no longer a Virgin?"... He got mad and wouldn't talk about it. I tried to talk to the Nuns about it and they wouldn't talk about it either.
I went to my Parents and they said to talk to the Priest.
This sorta peeved me cause its something I read and interpretted as Jesus had Brothers and Sisters and this made sense to me... Joseph was a man and Mary was a woman, we are created to procreate, so my opinion is they did.
Now, I took these thoughts back to the Priest and told him "My interpretation is - Mary was Virgin when Jesus was born, but later on she and Joseph had some more children... so when you say the "Virgin" Mary ascended into Heaven you are referring to the time of Jesus's birth, right?" His answer - no, Mary was a Virgin when she ascended"
Next day I go over to the church to tell my Grandparents about a Bar B Q that afternoon... I was wearing shorts and a tennis shirt with sneakers. I waited in the back until everyone got up for communion and then went up to where my Grandparents were sitting. I waited til they were done praying and then let them know what was going on. After I gave them the message I got up and left... well on the way out, the Priest made it a point to actually say something about my atire and the rudeness of leaving before mass was finished... I let him know that I was not there for mass and was just giving a message to my Grandparents and then I left.
I have only been in a Cat-lic church 7 times since that day (almost 25 years ago) and that was just to support the Family and their children.

In my opinion, the cat-lic church is a bunch of hypocrits run by man to make money. They no longer interpret the Bible, they just read the scripture that has been assigned for that day and if you look back over the years it seems to be the same scripture every year on that day.

Like I said earlier, I was raised Cat-lic and my children are Baptized in the Cat-lic church (pretty much to keep the Family happy). After stepping back and looking at religion as a whole, I am under the impression that all organized Religions are corrupt to some extent... why? they are all run by MAN and MAN is corrupt.

 

[warwgn]

(Projekt @ Oct. 10 2006,01:54) How about why the Vatican is guarded by the Swiss Guards? (I know why but do you?)
Does anyone know why (without googling or wikipedia'ing it) CH is the symbol for Switzerland? Who they pay taxes to? And why they have been respected as a neutral nation for so long? (I know why but do you).

gonna give us the answer or not??

I say it has to do with the Knights Templar.

 

[Jet Li]

I certainly believe the Catholic religion is misguided and corrupt.

I never understood why when they take communion, there are elaborite ceremonies to dispose of the unused wine and bread. It never says in the Bible that the wine and bread are the Actual blood and body of Christ, but that is what the Catholic religion imposes.

I don't understand why one must confess sins to a priest? I thought your salvation was between yourself and God Almighty. Each person is responsible for their own salvation, except children.

It seems, from the outside, that the Virgin Mary and Saints are worshiped like gods themselves. I hear of people praying to the Virgin Mary, like she can help you. Isn't she dead? God is the only one that people should be praying to in my opinion.

There also seems to be a lot of pomp and ceremony involved in Catholic church goings. When JC taught, he never did it a highly ornate gold encrusted church. And I do not remember ever reading in the Bible that that is the way it should be.

Sorry sooooo long.

 

[dinoap]

To quote from FUTURAMA "When you do it right, people aren't sure you've done anything at all"

 

[Projekt]

(warwgn @ Oct. 10 2006,09:42)

(Projekt @ Oct. 10 2006,01:54) How about why the Vatican is guarded by the Swiss Guards? (I know why but do you?)
Does anyone know why (without googling or wikipedia'ing it) CH is the symbol for Switzerland? Who they pay taxes to? And why they have been respected as a neutral nation for so long? (I know why but do you).

gonna give us the answer or not??

I say it has to do with the Knights Templar.

Okay here you go.

Because, The Catholic Church is account number 0000001. It is the holder of the largest mass of assets in the world but the holdings are not public. The Catholic church's account's shear value on the money market is astounding and probably is the largest interest generating account in the world.

 

[Projekt]

(tpbio @ Oct. 10 2006,09:50) I certainly believe the Catholic religion is misguided and corrupt.

I never understood why when they take communion, there are elaborite ceremonies to dispose of the unused wine and bread. It never says in the Bible that the wine and bread are the Actual blood and body of Christ, but that is what the Catholic religion imposes.

I don't understand why one must confess sins to a priest? I thought your salvation was between yourself and God Almighty. Each person is responsible for their own salvation, except children.

It seems, from the outside, that the Virgin Mary and Saints are worshiped like gods themselves. I hear of people praying to the Virgin Mary, like she can help you. Isn't she dead? God is the only one that people should be praying to in my opinion.

There also seems to be a lot of pomp and ceremony involved in Catholic church goings. When JC taught, he never did it a  highly ornate gold encrusted church. And I do not remember ever reading in the Bible that that is the way it should be.

Sorry sooooo long.

Yes tell it.
The saints and mary are nothing more than a continuation of polytheism.
You gotta have someone for the women to confide in because women are the ones that are generally most faithful and scornful in the Church. It is a way to displace the worship of God onto a motherly form because mothers are the ones that beat it into the youngsters in their family.

 

[Projekt]

(MrGxr @ Oct. 10 2006,09:35) I escaped the cat-lic church when I was around 18 or so... raised a good cat-lic boy, alterboy that was there 3-4 times a week for mass, always had a Priest or Nun over to the house for Sunday dinner, actually considered them like Aunts and Uncles, then one day I asked the Priest about something I read in the bible... "Does Jesus have Brothers and Sisters?" "If so, does that mean that Mary was no longer a Virgin?"... He got mad and wouldn't talk about it. I tried to talk to the Nuns about it and they wouldn't talk about it either.
I went to my Parents and they said to talk to the Priest.
This sorta peeved me cause its something I read and interpretted as Jesus had Brothers and Sisters and this made sense to me... Joseph was a man and Mary was a woman, we are created to procreate, so my opinion is they did.
Now, I took these thoughts back to the Priest and told him "My interpretation is - Mary was  Virgin when Jesus was born, but later on she and Joseph had some more children... so when you say the "Virgin" Mary ascended into Heaven you are referring to the time of Jesus's birth, right?" His answer - no, Mary was a Virgin when she ascended"
Next day I go over to the church to tell my Grandparents about a Bar B Q that afternoon... I was wearing shorts and a tennis shirt with sneakers. I waited in the back until everyone got up for communion and then went up to where my Grandparents were sitting. I waited til they were done praying and then let them know what was going on. After I gave them the message I got up and left... well on the way out, the Priest made it a point to actually say something about my atire and the rudeness of leaving before mass was finished... I let him know that I was not there for mass and was just giving a message to my Grandparents and then I left.
I have only been in a Cat-lic church 7 times since that day (almost 25 years ago) and that was just to support the Family and their children.

In my opinion, the cat-lic church is a bunch of hypocrits run by man to make money. They no longer interpret the Bible, they just read the scripture that has been assigned for that day and if you look back over the years it seems to be the same scripture every year on that day.

Like I said earlier, I was raised Cat-lic and my children are Baptized in the Cat-lic church (pretty much to keep the Family happy). After stepping back and looking at religion as a whole, I am under the impression that all organized Religions are corrupt to some extent... why?  they are all run by MAN and MAN is corrupt.

According to the "Right of Christian Iniciation" (class for non catholics looking to join the faith) the actual Bible (Catholic Version) is read over the period of three years in church during all of the scriptures.
But, yes, the original start of the church was to consolidate non believers so that they could be taxed. That was Constantine's great contribution to the world. The phuken original capitalist himself...

 

[VaBusa]

I'm hardly qualified to discuss what it would be like to be Catholic, BUT, after talking to a friend who's very active in the Catholic Church, gives 10% of her monthly paycheck to the cause but can't let the hubby know, insists her son can't stop being an alter boy because, and I quote "he's getting some of that Church money!" followed by the firm belief that she indeed is better than I simply because she's Catholic (I asked her three times if I heard her correctly), I'd say, no, surely she's not misguided

Who am I to judge? Jeez...

 

[thepushercg]

here at work we have a man who is in the catholic chuch, i have heard a lot of his beliefs, some are brain washed. he belives the sun revolves around the earth, he belives that satan is part of electricity. the reason for that is all the neon signs, the gambling casinos neededing juice, etc...
he belives only he will go to heaven, not even his wife will go. she is a baptist and refuses to convert to his catholic religion. i could go on about this, but its an example of the brain washing misguided beliefs of the catholic church.

 

[paineless4u]

used to be Catholic, then I read the Bible.

It is basically a system of good works will buy you into heaven.
Most religion today base their faith on good works. If I do this, or,,, if I don't do that.

The bible simply says salvation is by Gods grace,,,,, its a gift,,, it can't be earned.

Jesus died on a cross as a gift to us.
Thank God for that gift because I was wide open on a turbo Busa to hell.

 

[BigDawg_03Busa]

My input is in the old testament the worship temples consisted for

1. The outer courts (anyone could come here it's equivalent to the parking lot of a football stadium)
2. The inner courts (the stands of the stadium, only those who saught to hear from the Lord entered here)
3. Then there was the holy of holies where the only person allowed to enter was the priest. The priest was the only man allowed to come before God's presence and if He wasn't holy, he would die on the spot and have to be pulled out by those in the inner courts. (a rope was attached). (all from Ezekiel 42)

Now my problem is with the confessional, why confess you sins to a priest when Jesus died for the remission of our sins so we have reconciliation with God the father. I can repent of my sins in my car, on my knees or on my job. On that note repentence means to forsake or turn from sin. If we're repenting for the same thing everyday are we really being forgiven?

??? (another lesson perhaps).


Next so much emphasis in the catholic faith is placed on the virgin Mary. She has been made into an idol which is a violation of Commandment #2. Jesus is the only way to God in fact He (Jesus) says am the way and the truth and the life. No one comes to the Father except through me. (John 14:6) Therefore what can the virgin Mary (God bless her for being available) do for anyone, absolutely nothing!!!

 

[BigDawg_03Busa]

(paineless4u @ Oct. 10 2006,13:00) used to be Catholic, then I read the Bible.

It is basically a system of good works will buy you into heaven.
Most religion today base their faith on good works. If I do this, or,,, if I don't do that.

The bible simply says salvation is by Gods grace,,,,, its a gift,,, it can't be earned.

Jesus died on a cross as a gift to us.
Thank God for that gift because I was wide open on a turbo Busa to hell.

Amen my brother, the same goes for jehovah witness and mormonism. ...the FREE gift of God is eternal life. It can't be earned, we have to trust in Jesus for our salvation!!!

 

[Wag]

Most of you know, I used to be Mormon. Bleah. I'll spare you the details here but my stories are out there on the web if you look.

Mormons used to call Catholics the Church of the Devil. That's how strongly they felt about it!

Most of the Catholics I know never go to church. Maybe Christmas or Easter. They would, however, give up their lives for their church. Pure dogma. Actually, I think most of them are playing Pascal's Wager in order to make sure they get into heaven.

Actually, I feel that most people are playing this game. They don't know what's really going on.

Others have a sincere belief and they honestly do the best they can to live their religion faithfully. My respect goes to them.

Still, I'll not tell another person how to live their religion. Just don't ever ask me to buy off on the hypocrisy of various cults and glittery churches.

--Wag--