Speedvision/Motorcylist

OB_Bikenut

Registered
Just got through watching the ZX-12r
top speed test on a road that I would never consider taking a bike like that to the limits on. The best they could do was 183, then they bring out a busa.....184. After all was said and done with the testing, some guy, may be a wizard or something, comes out and stated flat out that both bikes are limited for top speed. The 'busa did win the test (they called it a tie) and in the end was chosen as the better bike. I agree totally!, but they should (with all their money...ours really), find a better place to test as other 2000 models have done way better....
 
I don't know about the 12 but something is surely not right with their 00' Busa or testing procedure. I've gone faster than 184 here in Nowhere, Ok on my 00' - speedometer has been corrected with the Yellow Box mod. This with armored leathers and noticable additional drag on each shoulder from the armor versus a t-shirt, and with a ZG DB providing perhaps a bit of additional drag. About 1100-1200 miles on the clock and I'm just an "amateur" when it comes to speeds like this on a bike. And no - I didn't remove any aerodynamic components like Bike mag did.

Motorcyclist's 00' is 7 mph less than CW [191 -00'] and less than other publications as well. They also ran only 10.3 1/4 time on a 99' Busa last year [worst time I've seen published in any mag] and "only" 189 on the same 99'. What's up with those guys?!
If they have no solid proof (other than their own suspect results) of said restrictions on either bike then it is irresponsible for them to print the theories as accepted fact. I would think they would be embarressed at this point after seeing what the other mags have obtained while testing a 00' Busa. Of course that didn't seem to bother them when they "crawled" down the 1/4 last year at 10.3 seconds in LAST place did it? [Motorcyclist lists the XX as quicker than the Busa!]

And to be consistant - I would also have to question the 12's testing by these same clowns whose numbers have also been a little better when tested by others. Fortunately I don't care enough to worry about it and the 12 guys won't complain anyway while being so close to the Busa in results regardless of testing validity.

The flood of misinformation on the 00' Busa "restriction" was drowning the unsuspecting already. Now it will be even worse. We've got guys popping up here and on the mailing list convinced the 00' is resticted based on Motorcyclist's unproven theories alone and some even attribute the information to CYCLEWORLD! [who specifically stated the 00' was NOT restricted] Guess this should be the part where I proclaim my intention to cancel my subscription to Motorcyclist? Like they would even notice?! Makes you question everything they print when you know from personal experience they screwed up somewhere and apparently don't even realize it. (or won't acknowlege it)


I'm not totally giving up on the ignorant like JC but sometimes it seems that many people enjoy being fooled/scammed. Once the dam has broken how do you ever return all the water?!

I won't quote PT Barnum (or his competitor depending on your historical source) tonight.
:)


[This message has been edited by Todd (edited 02 May 2000).]
 
Todd you are absolutely right! That restriction bullshit sounds just like propaganda to ease the eventual introduction of lower speed, restricted motorcycles. Unless they can state with unequivicable certainty from quoted factory resources that the bikes are restricted they are talking out of their as se s!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Give me facts not excuses! The ZX-12R was slower by its inception and with ultra tweaks is barely reaching the 190mph mark. The bike's so highly tuned it requires a f uck in' 2000 mile break in period. How undesirably delicate.

Now on to the year 2000 'busa. How many besides Todd have factually ran a Haybusa past 190 mph in straight from the factory condition before or after break in? I am highly confident that there are more than a few whom have.

Anyone have some answers based on results?
Take it easy.
 
Yeah Todd,the Busa Motorcyclist tested made 8 horsepower more than the one tested last year and goes 7 mph slower,something is not right.At these speeds,that's a night and day difference.It looks like the writing is on the wall(restricted) even for Busas although you still win the prize for top speed.
 
Check your math - Motorcyclist ran 189.6 last year on their 99' Busa. This year 184.2 - which is about5 mph difference.

Maybe the reason you were thinking 7 mph is because that is the difference between the run that CycleWorld made on their 00' Busa at 191 and the run that Motorcyclist made on their 00' at 184.2?

Ironically Motorcyclist printed this in their June 99' issue [Busa part 2 - stateside testing]:

"Up around 180mph, reducing drag/frontal area by a mere hundredth of 1 percent is good for another COUPLE [as in TWO] mph, Suzuki says. You'd need FIVE more horsepower to acheive the same thing." [That would be about 191ish
compared to the 189 MC ran last year based on the extra claimed hp the 00' was making over the 99'] Too many other variables involved for it to be this simple of course.

It should also be noted that the dyno numbers listed for either bike do not account for any ramair whatsover. If they had we would have a better idea of what the real diffence between the 00' and 99' was at speed while attempting the top speed run.

The same questions that couldn't be answered for the 12 being restricted would also apply to the Busa. If the Busa is restricted to 184 mph like Motorcyclist claims then why did the 00' Busa that CycleWorld tested run 191? What about the other publications like MCN? Their Busa didn't stop accelerating at 184. What about MY 00' Busa?! Why has no one (even MC) reported the abrupt accuation of a top speed limiter when reaching 184 or when most were passing by 184 still accelerating?
What about CycleWorld who claims just as strongly that there is no restriction on the 00'? Why does Suzuki (and Suzuki mechanics like JC) say there are no restrictions? Why has Kawasaki refused to verify a restriction on the 12? Why would either manufacturer implement restictions for 2000 models when the agreement specifically states they would begin in 2001? How could my 00' Busa built in Nov 99' have a top speed restriction when the discussion to limit was not reported to have occurred until well after that? Can anyone answer ANY of these questions or should we automatically take the word of one publication who now has a track record of lower than usual numbers when testing the Busa? All we really know at this point is that MC tested ONE 00' and they were unable to run the same (lower than other mags) numbers as they ran last year therefore it MUST be resticted [NO TANGIBLE PROOF OF ANY KIND HAS BEEN PROVIDED] since the ONE 00' Busa we [MC] tested ran slower. Give me a king sized break! Based on this most unscientific assumption it could be argued that the 99' Busa that MC tested last year was restricted since it ran 5 mph slower than the 99' Busa CW test AND 2 mph LESS than the 00' Busa that CW tested! What a screwed up mess!

Can't wait to see the next SportRider.



[This message has been edited by Todd (edited 03 May 2000).]
 
are they running top end in 2 directions? because ive ran 208 on the speedo in one direction and 202 in the other on the same day---take in the seedo error factor and i know im going faster than 184--let me test for them magazines because they must not have the balls to run and stay at top end as long as i will--and im sure a few fellows on this board will be in line to get there rides also!!!!!!!!! does anyone have any radar numbers on there busas?
 
I've seen 186-187 on my corrected speedo with no signs of a limiter and no indication that acceleration had been stopped, slowed or otherwise altered. Same thing on my 99' except that the mid 180's I saw on her were with the factory speedo not corrected. In other words I've gone faster on my 00' than my 99' but not because the 99' is slower. I spent a lot of time making sure my speedo was correct and calibrating after installing the Yellow Box.
 
"Maybe the reason you were thinking 7 mph is because that is the difference between the run that CycleWorld made on their 00' Busa at 191 and the run that Motorcyclist made on their 00' at 184.2?"

Yes,Todd,that's where I got 7 mph.
 
After reading all of these posts and hearing that little bullsh$t story from a local dealer. I have come to the conclusion that ALL those candy A$$ magazine testers are FULL OF SH$T! They do not know any more than the rest of us in regards to a restriction. YES it is irresponsible for them to speculate and worse for them to report a restriction without absolute PROOF.I feel I have a legal right to know what information that black box provides since the bike is my property!If the dealer service department connects to the box on MY bike I want to know what information could be obtained and is obtained. I want written copys of the info.That goes for Suzuki too, its about time someone started answering some questions. That is if they want to see me buy another one of their bikes!
 
back in june of 99,cycle world ran a 160.5 rwh busa to a tune of 194mph. and ran the 1/4 mile in 9.86 at 146mph fastest ever for a stock street bike. then bike mag ran a stock busa 200.2 mph with a slight wind
i don't know why this speed wouldn't count ?for the first 200mph run, when kent stoltz's 1100 went 233 mph, they had a 18 mph wind in there favor and it counted for the outright speed king title,in sport rider mag . so while these speeds on speed vision may be legit remember one thing some bikes are faster than others just like all corvettes don't run alike, all busa don't run alike
some maybe faster some may be slower

so some people may have slower busa and 12's
than others? just my opinion..
 
I saw the same thing you did; however Speedvision did state at the end of the show that nobody had gotten any official word from either manufacturer. After JC's little fit I didn't want to be the one to post what these so-called officials stated.
 
Personally, I'd like to smack that cocky fag making those claims of restricted bikes.

One issue that I do question is the use of two radar guns simultaneously. Granted, I like the fact that two were used, but are there any adverse effects?

Second, what the hell kind of road was that? Someone else pointed it out when I first posted that Motorcyclist was running the leader. I did not think there was anyway in hell that was their top speed course.

Third, no specifics whether or not the Busa was run one time or ten in which direction.

Basically I believe Motorcyclist are a bunch of weak backboned clowns, that couldn't perform the test. I would have rather seen the 12 whoop *** then that crap! I plan on hiding all the copies of their magazine behind the Harley mags while I'm on my rant.
 
Well, this is interesting... I own a blue(faster) 2000 busa... I have only installed Yosh race slipons..thats it!

Last night I virtually wound her out wide open! I could only go 184mph/295kph (Only!!?) Same numbers as all this restriction hype is about..

BUT! I weight 300lbs, am approx 25 inches wide in the shoulders and 6'1" also wearing a heavy Teknic cordura jacket with armour (bigger shoulders yet..a little wind drag)...

Wouldn't you think with my size and drag there is NO WAY I can go top speed?..I might have had a little more speed left.. but the my focus was going and everything looked shakey..plus it was my first time there.. and only 1800k's on the bike...

What do you think? ... my mapping is off to due to slip ons..recently dyno..need PC2!
 
I wonder if the slightly slower Busa's are suffering from restricted fuel filters?

At 184mph A LOT of fuel is trying to flow. Any restriction in flow as a result of tank gunk in the filters would make the bike appear restricted. We know there is a fuel filter flow issue with the Busa.

I seem to remember one of the guys on this board had access to a radar set and did some testing with his friends. The busa at that time barely broke 180. Later the member posted that they had found tuning problems with Busa, specifically the filters.

This doesn't explain the 12's problem but it might explain the Busa's.

This is just an idea to throw into the stewpot.
 
ALL THEY WOULD HAVE TO DO ON THE TEST IS HAVE RIDER KEEP HIS ELBOWS OUT OR NOT TUCK IN ALL THE WAY WOULD SLOW BIKE DOWN QUITE A BIT I WATCHED THAT SHOW & SAID BULL S***T THAT ROAD WAS HILLY NOT LEVEL WE HAVE ROADS DOWN HERE THAT ARE FLAT I AM SURE 2000 BUSA RUN FASTER THAN THAT. BUT ON THE OTHER HAND I HEARD A FRIEND OF MINE THAT OUTRUN A 12 ROLLON MORE THAN ONCE THE KAL IS NOT AS FAST AS THE BUSA!!!! PERIOD
MY 2CENT WORTH
 
Bulldog, one little detail: What altitude are you running your top speed? The 191 figure is at sea level; every 1K' higher you can kiss 5% of your power good bye.
 
If I remember correctly, they ran this test at 2300 or 2400 ft. I am not positive, but it sticks in my mind as the altitude they ran in.
 
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