Sping loaded Frame sliders

[thrasherfox]

Actually – Theorizing by the looks of the spring sliders, not sure of what I am thinking of conceptually is what was intended when they were created but this is my take:

One of the problems I have heard of with sliders is they sometimes might “digâ€￾ into the pavement causing sever damage to the bike and also causing the bike to possible abruptly stop and causing more damage to the rider.

With the these “Spring slidersâ€￾, I could see where they might have a tendency to give and instead of a ridged edge that could “digâ€￾ into the ground, you would have more of a chance of the slider bending with the spring allowing the surface of the ground to actually slide on the side of the slider preventing the slider from digging into the ground and causing cracking to the frame and abrupt stopping of the bike.

Actually more of a true sliding concept than rigid sliders.

Just my take on it looking at it from a possible engineering perspective.

And thinking of it, I might actually want to purchase a set of those..

 

[suzuki4life]

Actually – Theorizing by the looks of the spring sliders, not sure of what I am thinking of conceptually is what was intended when they were created but this is my take:

One of the problems I have heard of with sliders is they sometimes might “digâ€￾ into the pavement causing sever damage to the bike and also causing the bike to possible abruptly stop and causing more damage to the rider.

With the these “Spring slidersâ€￾, I could see where they might have a tendency to give and instead of a ridged edge that could “digâ€￾ into the ground, you would have more of a chance of the slider bending with the spring allowing the surface of the ground to actually slide on the side of the slider preventing the slider from digging into the ground and causing cracking to the frame and abrupt stopping of the bike.

Actually more of a true sliding concept than rigid sliders.

Just my take on it looking at it from a possible engineering perspective.

And thinking of it, I might actually want to purchase a set of those..

Yes sliders are to dig and burn and slow the sliding bike hopefully in the same position it went down in to minimize damage. Never heard of a proper slider causing damage by stopping the bike too quickly.

Rhythm: How about some Hydrolic sliders? No need for kick stand, just drop the bike on the slider. Oh yeah they'd have a remote too. Hit the button and the bike could pancake from one side to the other. PIMP YO!!!!

 

[shenoyp]

So if you put in a heavier spring will it bouce back up if it falls in the garage?

 

[shenoyp]

looks pretty neat... but what the logic of having em springs there

Someone please explain that to me...  

I'm guessing the springs are added to absorb the impact from the Busa weight, so that is not transfered directly to the frame causing damage  

Pretty sweet ideal for those driveway tip over I'd have to say. Anyway have you ever had the oppurtunity to see and here the Busa fall over on a set
frame sliders ? It aint no sight to see or music to the ears when it does.

Dont ask how I know

[/QUOTE]
Thanks, i get it now

 

[Rhythm]

Rhythm: How about some Hydrolic sliders? No need for kick stand, just drop the bike on the slider. Oh yeah they'd have a remote too. Hit the button and the bike could pancake from one side to the other. PIMP YO[/QUOTE]

Dont temp me, Gary

 

[MET]

Not new but still good.

Radical Race Work was on the site advertising at one time. Great quality stuff and Hike is a real good guy. They also make bar ends and rear spools of all kinds.



<!--EDIT|Ninja Eater
Reason for Edit: None given...|1118751420 -->

 

[Rhythm]

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Quote (Rhythm @ June 12 2005,12:46)
Check this out,Playaz while surfn I trip over these babies, pretty slick item I must say, but
Springloaded Frame sliders





Heres a heavy duty slider for the Hardley Ridaz



Not new.

Radical Race Work was on the site advertising at one time. Great quality stuff and Hike is a real good guy. They also make bar ends and rear spools of all kinds. [/QUOTE]

Yeah, Ninja, I saw his screen name the other day and decided to check out his site. They make some pretty interesting (original) products.

 

[TruWrecks]

How much do they think the sliders will actually collapse, with the forces trying to bend the slider, during a real world slide. The center shaft would most likely bend as the slider makes contact with the ground, and viola! You now have a bent-rigged slidder that could send your bike tumbling down the road! Maybe that's the idea. Total the bike the first time it goes down, then have insurance replace it. Then you don't have to worry about reapair costs!

No thanks! I'll stay with sliders that actually 'slide' when they hit.

 

[Rhythm]

TruWrecks
Professional Pilot



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Location: Everett, WA     Posted: June 14 2005,01  

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How much do they think the sliders will actually collapse, with the forces trying to bend the slider, during a real world slide.  The center shaft would most likely bend as the slider makes contact with the ground, and viola!  You now have a bent-rigged slidder that could send your bike tumbling down the road!  Maybe that's the idea.  Total the bike the first time it goes down, then have insurance replace it.  Then you don't have to worry about reapair costs!  

No thanks!  I'll stay with sliders that actually 'slide' when they hit. [/QUOTE]

Tru dat, Truwreck but I think they made them more towards accidental driveway tipovers.
Rhythm
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Location: Col,OH     Posted: June 13 2005,10:47  

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Quote  
looks pretty neat... but what the logic of having em springs there

Someone please explain that to me...  



I'm guessing the springs are added to absorb the impact from the Busa weight, so that is not transfered directly to the frame causing damage   Pretty sweet ideal for those driveway tip over I'd have to say. Anyway have you ever had the oppurtunity to see and here the Busa fall over on a set
frame sliders ? It aint no sight to see or music to the ears when it does.  

Dont ask how I know  
[/QUOTE]



<!--EDIT|Rhythm
Reason for Edit: None given...|1118752865 -->

 

[JINKSTER]

This is quite possibly the craziest idea I've witnessed yet on internet motorcycle message boards and...

I'm R.O.T.F.L.M.A.O. with visions of my busa bouncing down the road from side to side like a cross between a pogo stick and a mexican jumping bean!!! LOL!

But I have a few questions....will these spring loaded sliders require preload adjusters or rebound/compression damping?

But the real question is...when your bike goes down do you really want it to..."BOUNCE"?

L8R, Bill.

 

[thrasherfox]

I don't know why everyone is saying the Busa will bounce. the Busa ways over 550 pounds wet, does anyone honestly think the size of those springs will make the Busa bounce?

I think what would have is it would give just enough for it to absorb the impact a little, but I don't think in anyway that little spring would make 550 pounds of side would pressure spring back up off the ground.

Does anyone honestly think that will happen? If so why? Just curious. Not trying to be confrontational or anything.

 

[Rhythm]

I don't know why everyone is saying the Busa will bounce. the Busa ways over 550 pounds wet, does anyone honestly think the size of those springs will make the Busa bounce?

I think what would have is it would give just enough for it to absorb the impact a little, but I don't think in anyway that little spring would make 550 pounds of side would pressure spring back up off the ground.

Does anyone honestly think that will happen? If so why? Just curious. Not trying to be confrontational or anything[/QUOTE]

I honestly hope they're just joking, Thrasher.

 

[suzuki4life]

I don't know why everyone is saying the Busa will bounce. the Busa ways over 550 pounds wet, does anyone honestly think the size of those springs will make the Busa bounce?

I think what would have is it would give just enough for it to absorb the impact a little, but I don't think in anyway that little spring would make 550 pounds of side would pressure spring back up off the ground.

Does anyone honestly think that will happen? If so why? Just curious. Not trying to be confrontational or anything.

Let's say a 60 mph slide down a highway will last normally over 150 feet unless the bike hits something. Travel 150 ft on a major highway and think about the odds that the section will be bump and debris free. A metal slider is harder than delron. Hence the delron will take the fall and begin to melt from friction and shorten as the bike slides thus making the bike take a more hortizontal position. The closer the bike is to the ground the less likely it is to barrel roll. A harder slider will keep the bike in a higher position during the slide. A softer slider will also act like a brake pad during a slide thus lessening the distance the bike will travel.

Have I seen bikes that had metal sliders barrel roll? YES.
Have I seen bikes with delron sliders barrel roll? YES
Will a softer slider transfer an impact to a frame like a harder slider? NO it will absorb some of it.

 

[Rhythm]

Will a softer slider transfer an impact to a frame like a harder slider? NO it will absorb some of it. [/QUOTE]

Maybe thats why dude made a spring loaded frame slider

I've seen bikes with metal and plastic frame sliders barrell roll doing less than 30 mphl ,Gary.  Too many factor  to argue which are best, just dont buy the ones the attach to your fairing bolts.



<!--EDIT|Rhythm
Reason for Edit: None given...|1118804445 -->

 

[JINKSTER]

I don't know why everyone is saying the Busa will bounce. the Busa ways over 550 pounds wet, does anyone honestly think the size of those springs will make the Busa bounce?

I think what would have is it would give just enough for it to absorb the impact a little, but I don't think in anyway that little spring would make 550 pounds of side would pressure spring back up off the ground.

Does anyone honestly think that will happen? If so why? Just curious. Not trying to be confrontational or anything

I honestly hope they're just joking, Thrasher.  

[/QUOTE]
I'm not joking....but I'm not looking to start an arguement either...but just to share my thoughts and opinions...as follows.

Bounce?...sure..I mean after all..even a bike with normal solidly mounted frame sliders rebounds from impact just as between any two hard surfaces results in the basic rule of physics of...for every action there is an equal and opposite reaction...and when that energy has no where else to go?...you get "Bounce"...or?.."Damage"...which ever comes first.

Realistically speaking the likelyhood of all 550LBS of busa coming down on a sigle point of impact and that point being the slider isn't real probable...as even when out of shape the bike will tend to retain 2-3 points of contact..and the weight will be distributed amoungst them.

That said?...for this application to be affective we're talking a bare minimum 200-300 LB spring here and that's not even taking into account the jewels of energy developed via impact inertia...which PPSI would well exceed the poundage I just called out based on dead weight only...and while adding springs may assist in damping the damage?...it will also amplify the stored energy "BOUNCE"..which may cause more damage than it saves.

Then there's the "Mechanical Design Dilemma's" that are involved...which include but are not limited to...

1. Designing a multi-part spring loaded apperratus which necessitates movement in an axial direction via a captured spring located around the primary fastening bolt and between and through the two primary components of the mounting base and the actual slider/puck of which the additional axial travel to facilitate the spring and it's intended compression/movement will present two dilemma's...

a. An reduction of load bearing surfaces on an axial plane between the two mating parts and...

b. The axial travel will necessitate that a longer primary fastening bolt be used in which it's added side leverage (due to the additional length of the spring loaded assembly) will greatly weaken the primary fastener bolts bend moment should a sheer impact occur.

So no...I wasn't "joking".

 

[Rhythm]

JINKSTER
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Location: Port Saint Lucie, FL Posted: June 15 2005,03:09

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Quote (Rhythm @ June 14 2005,04:19)
Quote
I don't know why everyone is saying the Busa will bounce. the Busa ways over 550 pounds wet, does anyone honestly think the size of those springs will make the Busa bounce?

I think what would have is it would give just enough for it to absorb the impact a little, but I don't think in anyway that little spring would make 550 pounds of side would pressure spring back up off the ground.

Does anyone honestly think that will happen? If so why? Just curious. Not trying to be confrontational or anything


I honestly hope they're just joking, Thrasher.

I'm not joking....but I'm not looking to start an arguement either...but just to share my thoughts and opinions...as follows.

Bounce?...sure..I mean after all..even a bike with normal solidly mounted frame sliders rebounds from impact just as between any two hard surfaces results in the basic rule of physics of...for every action there is an equal and opposite reaction...and when that energy has no where else to go?...you get "Bounce"...or?.."Damage"...which ever comes first.

Realistically speaking the likelyhood of all 550LBS of busa coming down on a sigle point of impact and that point being the slider isn't real probable...as even when out of shape the bike will tend to retain 2-3 points of contact..and the weight will be distributed amoungst them.

That said?...for this application to be affective we're talking a bare minimum 200-300 LB spring here and that's not even taking into account the jewels of energy developed via impact inertia...which PPSI would well exceed the poundage I just called out based on dead weight only...and while adding springs may assist in damping the damage?...it will also amplify the stored energy "BOUNCE"..which may cause more damage than it saves.

Then there's the "Mechanical Design Dilemma's" that are involved...which include but are not limited to...

1. Designing a multi-part spring loaded apperratus which necessitates movement in an axial direction via a captured spring located around the primary fastening bolt and between and through the two primary components of the mounting base and the actual slider/puck of which the additional axial travel to facilitate the spring and it's intended compression/movement will present two dilemma's...

a. An reduction of load bearing surfaces on an axial plane between the two mating parts and...

b. The axial travel will necessitate that a longer primary fastening bolt be used in which it's added side leverage (due to the additional length of the spring loaded assembly) will greatly weaken the primary fastener bolts bend moment should a sheer impact occur.

So no...I wasn't "joking". [/QUOTE]


Wouldnt be easier to have a two piece design  frame slider . For example a  silp joint interlocking  two  piece slider with a spring in the middle.   On impact the spring would absorb the impact while the two the piece frame slider collaspes on compression with no return movement avioiding bouce.  

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Reason for Edit: None given...|1118849389 -->

 

[suzuki4life]

You just want some training wheels welded up so you don't need sliders anymore?

 

[Rhythm]

You just want some training wheels welded up so you don't need sliders anymore? [/QUOTE]

Someone starving for some attention

 

[JINKSTER]

JINKSTER
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Group: Members
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Location: Port Saint Lucie, FL     Posted: June 15 2005,03:09  

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Quote (Rhythm @ June 14 2005,04:19)
Quote  
I don't know why everyone is saying the Busa will bounce. the Busa ways over 550 pounds wet, does anyone honestly think the size of those springs will make the Busa bounce?

I think what would have is it would give just enough for it to absorb the impact a little, but I don't think in anyway that little spring would make 550 pounds of side would pressure spring back up off the ground.

Does anyone honestly think that will happen? If so why? Just curious. Not trying to be confrontational or anything


I honestly hope they're just joking, Thrasher.    

I'm not joking....but I'm not looking to start an arguement either...but just to share my thoughts and opinions...as follows.

Bounce?...sure..I mean after all..even a bike with normal solidly mounted frame sliders rebounds from impact just as between any two hard surfaces results in the basic rule of physics of...for every action there is an equal and opposite reaction...and when that energy has no where else to go?...you get "Bounce"...or?.."Damage"...which ever comes first.

Realistically speaking the likelyhood of all 550LBS of busa coming down on a sigle point of impact and that point being the slider isn't real probable...as even when out of shape the bike will tend to retain 2-3 points of contact..and the weight will be distributed amoungst them.

That said?...for this application to be affective we're talking a bare minimum 200-300 LB spring here and that's not even taking into account the jewels of energy developed via impact inertia...which PPSI would well exceed the poundage I just called out based on dead weight only...and while adding springs may assist in damping the damage?...it will also amplify the stored energy "BOUNCE"..which may cause more damage than it saves.

Then there's the "Mechanical Design Dilemma's" that are involved...which include but are not limited to...

1. Designing a multi-part spring loaded apperratus which necessitates movement in an axial direction via a captured spring located around the primary fastening bolt and between and through the two primary components of the mounting base and the actual slider/puck of which the additional axial travel to facilitate the spring and it's intended compression/movement will present two dilemma's...

a. An reduction of load bearing surfaces on an axial plane between the two mating parts and...

b. The axial travel will necessitate that a longer primary fastening bolt be used in which it's added side leverage (due to the additional length of the spring loaded assembly) will greatly weaken the primary fastener bolts bend moment should a sheer impact occur.

So no...I wasn't "joking".  

Wouldnt be easier to have a two piece design  frame slider . For example a  silp joint interlocking  two  piece slider with a spring in the middle.   On impact the spring would absorb the impact while the two the piece frame slider collaspes on compression with no return movement avioiding bouce.  

[/QUOTE]
Slip Joint?...Easier?...actually the very idea of a reactive spring loaded slider DICTATES the use of some form of "slip joint" but still (and always will in any configuration) necessitate additional length to facilitate the spring loaded action/movement which opposed to solidly mounted sliders will compromise structual integrity on two fronts..

1. The Additional Length Needed For The Movement/Compression and...

2. The complete loss of an entire "Plane Of Support" (the two mating surfaces which do interlock and solidly clamp together as with two piece conventional sliders)

What you hafta remember is that...unless it's a tip over in a garge or parking lot?..you must assume that the bike will most likely be in forward motion (through a wide and varying range of speeds)...and when that slider makes contact two forces will be present...compression annnd "SHEAR"....both upward and towards the rear...and in most cases (except for ultra low speed crashes) the SHEAR FORCE will far out-weigh the compression...an this is no place to compromise the structural integrity of the solid mounted slider by incorporating a "sprung together" assembly as imnsho?..the whole idea of spring loaded sliders represents nothing more than a marketing/sales gimmick which will ultimately prove to cost the rider/purchaser of such more $$$'s both up front out of pocket annnd...at the repair shop should a crash occur...as opposed to conventional, well designed, solidly mounted sliders.

And that's just my thoughts and opinions on the matter but...

I'm still not...."joking".

 

[Rhythm]

Slip Joint?...Easier?...actually the very idea of a reactive spring loaded slider DICTATES the use of some form of "slip joint" but still (and always will in any configuration) necessitate additional length to facilitate the spring loaded action/movement which opposed to solidly mounted sliders will compromise structual integrity on two fronts..

1. The Additional Length Needed For The Movement/Compression and...[/QUOTE]

I totally agree with you on that, but you have to admit it was a nice shot on my behalf. LQQk I'm

What you hafta remember is that...unless it's a tip over in a garge or parking lot?..you must assume that the bike will most likely be in forward motion (through a wide and varying range of speeds)...and when that slider makes contact two forces will be present...compression annnd "SHEAR"....both upward and towards the rear...and in most cases (except for ultra low speed crashes) the SHEAR FORCE will far out-weigh the compression...an this is no place to compromise the structural integrity of the solid mounted slider by incorporating a "sprung together" assembly as imnsho?..the whole idea of spring loaded sliders represents nothing more than a marketing/sales gimmick which will ultimately prove to cost the rider/purchaser of such more $$$'s both up front out of pocket annnd...at the repair shop should a crash occur...as opposed to conventional, well designed, solidly mounted sliders.And that's just my thoughts and opinions on the matter but...

I'm still not...."joking". [/QUOTE]



Heres where I disagree with you, J, Because.

A drop from 4' sitting still in the garage should have no greater force than falling while in motion, right ? Any other shear force as you would say to me would be caused by the slider grabbing somthing on the road surface causing more destruction than the actual fall or the intial impact.