Stage 1,2 or 3

[B@DA$$08BUS@]

The is probably a dumb question, but here it goes. What is the difference between stages 1 2 and 3 turbos, aside cost. I am not interested in putting a turbo on my bike, but I read almost every thread on here even the turbo ones, just curious.
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[DEMMYM]

The is probably a dumb question, but here it goes. What is the difference between stages 1 2 and 3 turbos, aside cost. I am not interested in putting a turbo on my bike, but I read almost every thread on here even the turbo ones, just curious.
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Good Question.


I would like to know as well.

 

[Commuta_Busa]

I think each turbo kit from the different turbo companies has their own definition for this. Of course any level kit can be detuned (lower boost) for street use. This is how I view the levels:
Level 1
entry level street kit
no engine changes
small turbo
low boost setting
no charge air cooling
basic fuel system upgrades

Level 1b
street kit
spacer to lower CR
small turbo
higher boost setting
charge air cooling system (air to air intercooler or water/meth injection)
basic fuel system upgrades

Level 2
street/strip kit
engine upgrades
bigger turbo
adjustable boost setting
charge air cooling system (water to air intercooler or water/meth injection)
stand alone secondary fuel system
trans upgrades

Level 3
race kit
similar to level 2 w/ bigger turbo
gear dependant boost controller
more electronics

 

[dadofthree]

From reading here: Stage 1 no engine internals, 230 to 250 RWHP. Stage 2 can usually be developed from stage 1, can require engine mods, if you want the most out of it, it will. Stage 3 WOW

 

[Commuta_Busa]

here's some "stage 3" electronics

 

[Destin07]

He is right each manufacturer has their own level. Going By RCC it would like something like this

Stage 1----safe on stock motor 250HP
Stage 2---- same as above but with secondary injection...A?A intercooler added can make safe 320HP on 93 octane "MOST PRACTICAL STREET KIT WITH SAFETY"
Stage 3----street strip kit with GT35R "just larger turbo" and some extras
Stage 4----Race kit same as street/strip but designed for cut frame I believe
Stage 5---Ultra kit GT35R , A/W intercooler, 380HP pump/550HP C16
Stage 6---Super Ultra GT40R, A/W intercooler, 380HP+pump/ 600HP+ C16

 

[Destin07]

He is right each manufacturer has their own level. Going By RCC it would like something like this

Stage 1----safe on stock motor 250HP
Stage 2---- same as above but with secondary injection...A?A intercooler added can make safe 320HP on 93 octane "MOST PRACTICAL STREET KIT WITH SAFETY"
Stage 3----street strip kit with GT35R "just larger turbo" and some extras
Stage 4----Race kit same as street/strip but designed for cut frame I believe
Stage 5---Ultra kit GT35R , A/W intercooler, 380HP pump/550HP C16
Stage 6---Super Ultra GT40R, A/W intercooler, 380HP+pump/ 600HP+ C16

VELOCITY WOULD BE LIKE

Stage 1---internal wastegate
stage 2---water injection
Stage 3---water injection bigger turbo
Stage 4---I don't really know I think they suck for making good street HP unless you intercool them....F*** water injection for the average guy who doesn't know all the ins and out secrets of turbos and who doesnt have einstein setting up his bike and tuning it. Velocity does do very well on the racetrack as that is where you will find 90% of their kits

 

[turbobusa2000]

I've got #2, except with a w/a intercooler. Very fun on the street.

 

[Commuta_Busa]

also what makes it confusing is that with any "kit" you can add all kinds of options. Hell you could get a small turbo and add as much extra stuff as you want. It's the opposite that doesn't work (large turbo/high boost w/no engine mods).

 

[Destin07]

also what makes it confusing is that with any "kit" you can add all kinds of options. Hell you could get a small turbo and add as much extra stuff as you want. It's the opposite that doesn't work (large turbo/high boost w/no engine mods).

yep easiest way to figure out what you need is to determine how much power you want to make and what fuel you want to run. Here are you options

Up to 400HP on 93 octane
UP to 600+HP on C16
Up to 450 on E85

If you decide out of these categories then picking out the best kit for your needs is pretty simple

 

[dadofthree]

And just think what the guys claiming + 750 RWHP are doing

 

[dave3.4]

VELOCITY WOULD BE LIKE

Stage 1---internal wastegate
stage 2---water injection
Stage 3---water injection bigger turbo
Stage 4---I don't really know I think they suck for making good street HP unless you intercool them....F*** water injection for the average guy who doesn't know all the ins and out secrets of turbos and who doesnt have einstein setting up his bike and tuning it. Velocity does do very well on the racetrack as that is where you will find 90% of their kits

I have to agree wit Destin on this one well partially. Rcc and Velocity are very close on thier stage one and stage two kits but vr offers two versions of stage twos depending on how much you wanna spend.The water injection is a option but its an option for stage 1,2 and 3? dont kid yourself 300 on the street if set up correctly and ridden right is hard to beat. Dont get me wrong I run more on the street but it just spins so its kinda useless.


Me personally would go with rcc for lsr and vr for the 1/4.RCC has intercooling and vr doesnt offer it. Not that rcc isnt good for the track just not as well known as vr

heres the link to Velocity ...........explains there different stages pretty well

Turbo Systems
and rcc
RCCTurbos Your Turbo Specialist

Both are great systems

 

[Destin07]

And just think what the guys claiming + 750 RWHP are doing

I will be first to tell you from expierence that they are claiming.....If you don't have Sean from big CC, Richard from RCC, Sebastian from NLR or Christer from Sweden then you aren't getting past 600HP more. To get those numbers you need a GT42R more than likely and a stroker from hell motor. Not to mention how out of whack everyones dyno numbers are....hell in hot alabama I had to push 40lb to make 616HP...now that was heat soaked and with a 240 tire but for comparison Charlies bike that DaveO tuned made like 636HP at 36lb....so thats 20HP more than me and 4lb less boost or about 60HP less. I highly doubt that if I let my bike cool all the way down and put a lightweight rear stock size tire that I could make 676HP. Just to many differences in everyones tuning stations...thats why only dyno shootouts really matter when it comes to comparing bikes. Like Dave also said all the kits make HP....I think RCC goes just as fast at the track as Velocity or anybody else....Put Mike Slowe on any 3 of those bikes and he could probably run the same time on all 3 after dialing them in
*RCC for street, race, LSR....just awesome intercooling ability and product quality
*Velocity for track only as far as I'm concerned by people like dave have made them work on the street
*NLR for the track or even going to the moon probably...this guy can build you anything you desire
*BIG CC don't know to much but seems to know alot and build some pretty cool stuff

So far I've stayed at 350HP at 14lb or that was my last dyno number I can remember when street riding....utterly useless below 5th when its 55 outside....Even when its 90 in the summer I can still burn up 3rd and probably 4th but just can't feel it spinning as good. I agree with Dave that 300HP is a good street number. All my tire spinning was done at 7-8 over but I'm about to pull it in as far as I can which possible is around 4 over and then run the 18lb in 5th and 6th on the street

 

[dave3.4]

NLR makes the nicest turbo's hands down.......and you pay the premium

Bigcc isnt as well known as NLR but thier fabbing skills are definetly up there.

RCC makes the ultra plenum which is perfect for lsr.. I would think they have more records then Velocity at lsr but would love to find out for sure.

Velocity dominates the dragstrip and theres a reason why so many top names run them

As far as quality they are all up to par but bigcc and nlr are on top in my opinion.

Just like Ace said about putting Mike Slow on a rcc bike and getting it dialed in. That it would run the same numbers.It probably would but theres nobody with his skills on one but theres a few on VR kits. The last AMA at Valdosta there was alot of them running over 200mph... Like them or hate them theres no denying there accomplishments or any of these four.


I wish I could afford four different Busa's with each one of thier kits.

 

[B@DA$$08BUS@]

Kewl good reading here fellas.
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[ogre]

why run secondary injectors? why not bigger primaries, then just tweak fuel pressure and duty cycle to get your idle right? i realize at some point, it just won't idle right, but realistically, you'd have to stuff some BIG injectors in there to get to that point. can't we tweak the map enough with ecuedit, or a megasquirt to avoid a secondary fuel system?

 

[Commuta_Busa]

I think if you're goign to tweak the OE setup than ecu deitor is the best approach. I think they're still working on what limits you can take the OE fuel system setup. The fueling map really gets very eradic (duty cycle related) with BIG injectors and upped pressure. Can it be done yes. You just need to find the time to tune it. Secondaries just end up being an easy solution so when you end up ramping to 20# boost you don't need to make any more fuel system changes.

why run secondary injectors? why not bigger primaries, then just tweak fuel pressure and duty cycle to get your idle right? i realize at some point, it just won't idle right, but realistically, you'd have to stuff some BIG injectors in there to get to that point. can't we tweak the map enough with ecuedit, or a megasquirt to avoid a secondary fuel system?

 

[PaulCav]

I have the VR Stage one Turbo on my 02 with about every internal engine mod you can have. It is set at a very tame 6lbs of boost and with the availability of going to 10 lbs boost with the push of a button. I race the bike in the AMA Dragbike series as well as ride it on the street.

The bike is reliable and very smooth in its throttle response especially after removing my custom air filter (See article) :: DRAGBIKE.COM :: DRAGBIKE MAGAZINE :: How to limit your Horsepower by Adding a Turbo ::

I did all of the work on it myself having never been in a motorcycle engine before with the sagely advice of Brian Livengood at Livengood Motorsports. (This guy is unbelieveable in what he knows when it comes to building an engine. And a complete scientist when building a fuel map on his eddy current dyno.)

When I first put it on the engine was completely stock and it took 6 hours to put the turbo on. It took two months trying to get the fuel map right from running it on the track only. I highly recommend having someone do it on a dyno.

Later I beefed up the engine only because I am into overkill, A stage 1 turbo will work fine on a stock Hayabusa engine.

As far as all the stages are concerned, like previously mentioned by other posts, Stage 2 is as high as I would go for the street and even that is over the top. Hell these bikes break the speed limit by a long shot in 3rd gear as it is. On the track what stage you use depends on the class you are racing in.

I will say this... Adding a Turbo definitely increases the adrenaline level and turns the speed giggle level to 11.

 

[megawatt]

PaulCav - I read that dragbike story a couple of days ago. My only question is if it was a typo when the story said after the engine rebuild you put in CP 11.0:1 pistons? Why would you go into the engine and replace the OE pistons and stay at a stock compression? Why not 8.5 or 9 to 1's? I would not think 11's could handle 6# boost especially on a drag strip.

Either way, nice reading.

O yea,

 

[PaulCav]

PaulCav - I read that dragbike story a couple of days ago. My only question is if it was a typo when the story said after the engine rebuild you put in CP 11.0:1 pistons? Why would you go into the engine and replace the OE pistons and stay at a stock compression? Why not 8.5 or 9 to 1's? I would not think 11's could handle 6# boost especially on a drag strip.

Either way, nice reading.

O yea,

I put the 11.0:1 pistons in because I did not feel like changing the fuel injectors out. Currently, the fuel injectors are at 98% duty cycle when I go to 10lbs of boost and sometimes if I miss a shift the FI light will come on.

I ET race the bike and am not particularly intersted in going "insane speed". The 11.0:1 pistons work fine on the drag strip and the street. The Stage 1 turbos from most manufacturers are designed to bolt on to a stock engine with no modifications. The first season I ran it this way until a friend told me that the only weak point with a stock Busa and a turbo was the stock pistons, they are typically only good to about 250 hp.

If I would have gone to lower compression pistons and put a spacer in I could run higher boost but then I would need a stage 2 kit with the extra fuel rail. Frankly, I was just not interested in it.

As it is, in Valdosta I ran a 9.29 in the 1/4 letting off the throttle at the 1000 ft mark and still broke out of my 9.3 dial in. Quite honestly since I change the filter out I have not been able to make a full pass.

Right now as I write this I have the engine apart doing my yearly maintenance on it before the next season, bearing changes, general inspection, etc. I ran the whole race season on AMSOIL and only made one oil change just before the end of the season. I am writing an article about it now. It will be on Dragbike.com in about a month or so when I get the bike back together and dyno tuned again. (I do that every year just to make sure the map is still good. You would be amazed how just changing out rings and bearings along with general tuning affects your map.)