Surging

[BA BUSA]

"WOW- nuttin like flaming a very KNOWLEDGIBLE, long time Busa guy on your first post.   Ballsy."

If my post came off as a flame, I sincerely apologise to all I may have offended, especially the well schooled elders amongst us. It certainly wasn't my intention to flame, but the fact it was perceived as one serves to illustrate my point that misunderstandings, whether of a technical or communicative nature, are easily made.

Correct me if I'm wrong, but isn't Redneck's assessment of the situation also addressed by installing a TRE?

As I stated earlier a TRE can help the low speed Busa surge.

Most bikes run very lean at low engine speeds to reduce emissions, on a Busa this causes
the bike to want to run a little faster or slower at part throttle 3000-4000 rpms.

A TRE changes the ignition timing in gears 1-4 and will smooth out the part throttle surge.

A Powercommander properly mapped eliminates the problem completely
and is the best way to correct the problem surging.

The only reason I mentioned the controversial TRE is that it will help this and costs less
than a $100...a PC will run ya more than $300

 

[BA BUSA]

actually... It is probably surging because your idle may be too high... If the idle is too high, it will surge between 1st and 2nd for sure while shifting to 2nd, but not as much in the upper gears...

Otherwise, you could be running rich, but I don't see mods listed, so probably the idle issue..

Get a clue dude...do you think the guy is idling around in first or second gear.

 

[BA BUSA]

Subjective descriptors can be very misleading. It makes me think of what a mechanic has to go through when the only information he's provided with is vague at best.

When I read Gregbusa's complaint it sounded a lot like the "hesitation" I'm experiencing at low speed in 1st or 2nd gear, which is most prominant during maneuvers such as u-turns. The crux of the matter is the bike's unresponsiveness to subtle throttle inputs, which forces me to use more throttle, at which point it comes on with too much power (hence the surge). My understanding is that a TRE resovles this problem and so I'm ordering one for this riding season.

Cloud 9: I agree with you that advice should be carefully made, but if you'll look at the original post again, you'll see that mods were in fact listed (in grey underneath the main text). I guess we all need to be a little more careful in (1) describing the problem (2) reading what was written and (3) giving the right advice.

Happy trails.

Great post man

 

[Gregbusa]

Hey Guys, Let me try and explain this a little better. Example: When going thru a school zone or a 10 to 15 mph zone. In 1st or 2nd gear does not matter, No throtle at all. Just at idle (1000)RPM. Once out of these lower speed zones and you give it some throtle the bike runs fine. Sorry for any confusion.

 

[hbr]

"WOW- nuttin like flaming a very KNOWLEDGIBLE, long time Busa guy on your first post.   Ballsy."

If my post came off as a flame, I sincerely apologise to all I may have offended, especially the well schooled elders amongst us. It certainly wasn't my intention to flame, but the fact it was perceived as one serves to illustrate my point that misunderstandings, whether of a technical or communicative nature, are easily made.

Correct me if I'm wrong, but isn't Redneck's assessment of the situation also addressed by installing a TRE?

All good friend- the Internets make it easy to confuse "tone"

 

[Uwe W.]

What is a TRE?.............Go easy on 'em D

Ok, ok... I get the TRE thing now. Of course that's the reason I joined this board in the first place, to find out more about my bike. It was disappointing to read that the thing doesn't work, or at least not work well enough to be worth the money. I was hoping for a cheap fix to my low speed snatchiness, and wanted to avoid using something like a PC. A TRE I could have installed, a PC? NO WAY. Worse, I have to find someone now that I can trust to install and set the thing up right.

For the record, a search in old posts using the keyword "TRE" produces a mountain of unrelated information which has to be sifted through. Guys that have been using this forum for a long time should try and be a little more patient because it really isn't that obvious to us newbies that the subject has been so painfully rehashed.

This is probably not the place to ask, but what is the biggest bang for the buck performance upgrade for a 'busa? I don't consider a $1k to $2k cost to raise up an extra 5hp any kind of a worthwhile investment...

My next bike (for places the 'busa won't take me):

 

[BUTTER2BOY]

Its normal....hate to say it but a TRE will help that or a Powercommander can smooth it out also.

+1...
My '04 did the same thing until after I installed the PCIIIr~ Smoothed right out after that~

+2 welcome to the org.

 

[Gregbusa]

Ordered a TRE for the Busa. Maybe this will help with the low speed surging.

 

[Revlis]

Ordered a TRE for the Busa. Maybe this will help with the low speed surging.

I wouldn't bother spending a red cent on anything. Sounds like a perfectly healthy Busa and something to not worry about. For the 2-3% of the time your riding in that RPM range, don't sweat it. Every Busa I have ridden (5) is twitchy at the very bottom. Surging just like you describe.

Folks start tinkering with a machine that had millions of dollars spent on development with backyard psuedo science and generic made in Tiawan fixes. It's goofy, then it's a trail of one crappy patch over another... I'd avoid that slope and simply ride.

Ride it, enjoy it.

Simple.

 

[Uwe W.]

Sounds like a perfectly healthy Busa and something to not worry about.  For the 2-3% of the time your riding in that RPM range, don't sweat it.  Ride it, enjoy it. Simple.

Have to disagree with you there. I don't think it's that simple, and for something that has "had millions of dollars spent on development" is sure as hell isn't acceptable.

I can't believe you would clump fixes to problems as some sort of "backyard psuedo science". Give me a break. Technology, like many other things in life, progresses on the shoulders of those before us. We analyze, learn and advance through the mistakes of others, and just because the company which made the product is some massive corporate entity, it doesn't make them immune from screwing things up. Just ask NASA, all those brainiac rocket scientists still had something to learn about O-rings and converting measurements to Metric.

By your argument none of us should be touching or altering our Busas in any way, shape or form. I guess the fact that good quality after-market parts can add reliable horsepower should be ignored, or the fact that the people making them probably spent a fair amount of coin themselves on R&D.

The so called genetic "surging" problem with the Busa is not something that should be ignored. I find it highly annoying, and at times a dangerous situation. At the end of my street is a very tight hairpin turn which often has oncoming traffic and pedestrians. I've tried everything to make that turn smoothly, but the Busa won't have any of it. Gently rolling on the throttle in first gear, leaned over, results in: NOTHING. So I give 'er a little more go and boom she fires forward, widening my turning radius into the opposite lane. I won't even talk about track days. Sure I can get around it by slipping the clutch while using more revs, but why should I have to compensate for a a multimillion dollar R&D budget failing? Especially since I and everyone else here paid for it!

 

[pseudo]

Hey guys, I have a 05 Busa only 1100 miles on it. It seems to surg at a low speed while in 1st or 2nd gear. Example going thru a school zone or shopping center parking lot. Is this normal or what is causing this? Thanks guys

I find that the bike wants to goor stop, so putting around at 20mph it gets squirrely. You just have to kinda get used to it, only experience seems to smooth it out.

 

[PDBusa]

You have the RS-3's as stated? Search the marble mob for a quick and inexpensive fix if you have backfiring with your surging.
I have the Yosh bolt-ons also and have no issue with backfiring so i haven't done the mod.. I do get mild "surging" at times maybe annoying, but nothing that could be construed as dangerous. Just fine tuned the wrist to compensate.
It may just be something with owning the fastest year and color combo too...

Good Luck and Welcome!



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[wrench]

I have a 06 le and mine does this.At 2800 rpm in 1st or 2nd at tip in throttle{throttle just cracked] I happen to be a pro mechanic and the fuel trim is lean.That is most likely to meet emissions and fuel mileage standards,this is why 10% trim solves this problem.I want to make the program my first upgrade,this condition is very annoying with my wife onboard.