Suzuki Engineers where are you?

[busa_boy_69]

I just wanted to take a moment to express some of my dissapointment with you guys. I was hoping for months that in the 2005 lineup we would see some change in the hayabusa. Looks wise I would not change a thing on her I think it's without a doubt the SEXIEST machine on the road. However.....the Busa has long been a target of many bike companys and other riders with engine envy to take the crown from. The hayabusa was designed by Suzuki to be the speed king and the past few years it has been exactly that. The problem I am having however is that Suzuki seems to have little interest in a bike that has been sooooo good to them. They have not heard any of our voices begging to give our baby a makeover. I never thought I would see the day when litre bikes would be running side by side with us. Well I gotta say that day is here. With the likes of the 1000rr, R1, zx10, and hell even our cuz the gixxer is beggining to show us that 160HP just isn't enough to dominate the scene anymore. Like I said looks wise touching this bike is a bigtime no no. BUT.....30 more horsepower and a little bit of a diet for this baby might not be a bad idea. Maybe at least 30 or 40 lbs or so. All in all I guess I just wrote this to see if anyone is as frustrated as I am with seeing a sweet thing like the busa being neglected by it's own maker. I have even filled out 2 surveys FROM suzuki sent to me asking how I feel about my product giving it nothing but rave reviews but in the notes section telling them MORE POWER. I guess time will tell whats gonna happen to it.....whether they will up the antee and make people remember the name HAYABUSA again.....or if they will simply downgrade this bike until the sales of litre bikes kill it and just eventually discontinue it all together. I surely hope to god they realize what this bike did to the world of motorcycling and begin to take some pride in it.

 

[BulletTrain]

I just wanted to take a moment to express some of my dissapointment with you guys. I was hoping for months that in the 2005 lineup we would see some change in the hayabusa. Looks wise I would not change a thing on her I think it's without a doubt the SEXIEST machine on the road. However.....the Busa has long been a target of many bike companys and other riders with engine envy to take the crown from. The hayabusa was designed by Suzuki to be the speed king and the past few years it has been exactly that. The problem I am having however is that Suzuki seems to have little interest in a bike that has been sooooo good to them. They have not heard any of our voices begging to give our baby a makeover. I never thought I would see the day when litre bikes would be running side by side with us. Well I gotta say that day is here. With the likes of the 1000rr, R1, zx10, and hell even our cuz the gixxer is beggining to show us that 160HP just isn't enough to dominate the scene anymore. Like I said looks wise touching this bike is a bigtime no no. BUT.....30 more horsepower and a little bit of a diet for this baby might not be a bad idea. Maybe at least 30 or 40 lbs or so. All in all I guess I just wrote this to see if anyone is as frustrated as I am with seeing a sweet thing like the busa being neglected by it's own maker. I have even filled out 2 surveys FROM suzuki sent to me asking how I feel about my product giving it nothing but rave reviews but in the notes section telling them MORE POWER. I guess time will tell whats gonna happen to it.....whether they will up the antee and make people remember the name HAYABUSA again.....or if they will simply downgrade this bike until the sales of litre bikes kill it and just eventually discontinue it all together. I surely hope to god they realize what this bike did to the world of motorcycling and begin to take some pride in it.

You're about to be buried in posts by folks who still think the busa is uncontested power wise as well. The magazines still say so anyway!

 

[busa_boy_69]

Oh don't get me wrong it's not that I think the busa is getting "beat" neccessarily. It's just that with the development the other companys keep throwing into their litre bikes if Suzuki keeps this up in a few more years YES i think the busa will not be the fastest. Thats why I am beggining to get worried. I would ride with this bike regaurdless because I love the look and feel of it. I just never thought I'd see the day when you could roll up to a 1000 and if you weren't a good rider on the busa you had the potential to get your ass handed to you. With the firepower these things are packing nowadays and with the Busa having the same setup it had in 1999.....well plus the addition of a freaking RESTRICTOR.....if anything suzuki downsized the bike, you had better know how to ride your busa or you might end up looking bad

 

[BulletTrain]

Oh don't get me wrong it's not that I think the busa is getting "beat" neccessarily. It's just that with the development the other companys keep throwing into their litre bikes if Suzuki keeps this up in a few more years YES i think the busa will not be the fastest. Thats why I am beggining to get worried. I would ride with this bike regaurdless because I love the look and feel of it. I just never thought I'd see the day when you could roll up to a 1000 and if you weren't a good rider on the busa you had the potential to get your ass handed to you. With the firepower these things are packing nowadays and with the Busa having the same setup it had in 1999.....well plus the addition of a freaking RESTRICTOR.....if anything suzuki downsized the bike, you had better know how to ride your busa or you might end up looking bad

A few years? After riding bikes from both camps I'd say within months... In my opinion, simply based on riding both the busa and the 10, I've gotta say that the two are close enough RIGHT NOW (as in LAST YEAR... 2004) that if you don't know how to ride your busa VERY well and/or you're not on the tip top of your game you would get your tail handed to you.

I've said this before, but I'm going to say it again... I know feel isn't an accurate indicator, and that the busa applies it's power infinitely more smoothly and deceptively than the 10 (and other litres I assume), but... From a roll my 10R feels like it accellerates much harder than my busa did up to around 130, and at least as hard if not a bit harder up to 150+. It isn't until I hit 160+ that it feels like maybe the busa would start pullin' harder. Of course the speeds I'm quoting here were "indicated" so take that into consideration.

Anyway, as I said. In my opinion, it's already to the point that a good rider on a new litre could very well skin your tater if you're not a better rider and at your best. My "GUESS" based solely on numbers is that with identically skilled riders and on perfectly executed runs the busa probably still does hold a slight edge due to the torque advantage. I'm just not convinced that the advantage is as much as some here want to make it out to be. Yeah, it used to be, but things have changed. The comments you see here and elseweremade by those who have rode older litres or those who are riding WITH others on new litres are no more accurate measures of performance than my seat of the pants observation. The new litres shame the litres from no more than a year or two ago and the rider variable negates any results between ridin' buddies.


Trust me, I'm not slamming those who still imagine this huge advantage for the busa. It has taken the whole time I've had my 10 and some seriously hard runs for me to come to grips with all of this. After the busa brainwashing I NEVER would have believed that anything would come as close to the busa as the 10 does despite the numbers quoted for the 10. I honestly climbed onto the 10 fearing that I would be disappointed coming from a busa. I can't put into words how unfounded that fear was...

Plain and simple, as awesome as I think the busa is, for what it is, it is simply is NOT so *decidedly* the King anymore. It may still technically top the heap with all things being equal, but it's got some fierce competition so close on it's heels that if it stumbles it's gonna get steam rolled.

Folks can argue with my points all the want but the fact is that I've seen both sides from the controls and I've been made a believer...

 

[Terminal Illness]

MY GSXR 1000 is currently beating everything in its class and above. I have done some mods. to my bike and it has been Dyno'd at 165.5 HP and 81.0 Torque. I recently did several roll on's with 2 ZX-12's and I smoked both of them. one was stock except for a -1 front sprocket. The other had a full Muzzy Exhaust and PC w/ Map....I took them from start to finish in the roll on. I haven't raced a Busa yet, but i'm looking for a guy in town that is supposed to have one thats really fast. I'll probably get beat, but like you said. I have all the power of a sotck Busa plus a little and my bike is about 100 lbs. lighter...I love Suzuki's, they run GREAT. I fell in love with Captians Busa when he first got it. I was torn between the 1300 and the 1K. In the end I went with the 1K because I like to wheelie and stoppie. It handles alot better on the Track also....I still have tons of respect for the Busa's though.

I was just making the same comments about the Busa the other day. Why hasn't suzuki updated the Busa to keep it on top? As you have said the liter class bikes are not far behind the Busa's right now. They need to pump em up if they want to keep the Busa as the king....

 

[busa_boy_69]

Thats what is getting me so aggrevated I guess. I just don't feel Suzuki is spending enough time with this bike.

 

[WWJD]

here's my guess [and nightly prayer]: just like when SUZ dropped da bomb of the new killer 1000 a couple years back, they shall do so again with a new busa. I bet all the R&D over the last few years will go into the new busa so they can drop ANOTHER bomb and I bet they have been working on this for a while already.

and as a side note, wouldn't it be funny if the next restrictor they put on was failing from the factory? they could always offer a replacement restrictor for those who discovered it and wanted it put back on - you know, a $.06 resister installed by the dealer on yoru next tuneup.... if you remember to ask about it.

When my busa looses it's crown, as it will in a few months like BT suggested, it will still be the king in MY book because it does so many other things so well. I KNOW it's better at top end speed stability feel, I KNOW it's better at hauling a passenger to speeds they might never experience, I KNOW it just feels heavy, solid and planted and that those light liters don't. until other bikes can best ALL of busa's catagory's, it will still be king in MY heart.

BTW, BT, I don't think I ever told you I am glad you stuck around here even after switching bikes. It was kind of a shock and disappointment for awhile, but I'd still ride with you anyday. I ride with lots of bikes live in person. Online should be no different.



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[BulletTrain]

Why hasn't suzuki updated the Busa to keep it on top?

Because they are still selling every single unit they make each year. The busa's bad boy image and of course it's performance/value is still a HUGE seller. Until that changes I don't really expect earth shaking updates to the busa like we've seen in 1k's and even 600's... Zuk is milkin' that R&D dime as long as they can.

The litres nippin' at the busa's heels is a good thing, folks. Once people stop buyin' busas and start buyin' the "faster" litre bikes Zuk will have to crap or get off the pot. Competition is a GOOD thing. Why do you think the litre & 600 bikes have reached the point they're at now?

 

[BulletTrain]

here's my guess [and nightly prayer]: just like when SUZ dropped da bomb of the new killer 1000 a couple years back, they shall do so again with a new busa. I bet all the R&D over the last few years will go into the new busa so they can drop ANOTHER bomb.

and as a side note, wouldn't it be funny if the next restrictor they put on was failing from the factory? they could always offer a replacement restrictor for those who discovered it and wanted it put back on - you know, a $.06 resister installed by the dealer on yoru next tuneup.... if you remember to ask about it

That would be awesome but I just don't think it's likely given the fact that the busa has no competition *IN IT'S CLASS*. If Zuk perceives the litres as a threat to the busa and predicts that potential busa buyers might be tempted away to *OTHER MAKES OF LITRES*, maybe we'll see a nice update/improvement in the busa. If they hold that the busa is a different class bike and decide not to "compete" with the litres, or decide that they can hold potential lost busa buyers in the Zuk camp with the new Gixxer I'm afraid the busa will either remain largely unchaged and/or be discontinued. I still say it will take a loss of sales to get Zuk to make a MAJOR move on the big girl in either direction...

 

[busa_boy_69]

Well train it's been a slow process each year of them getting closer and closer to our heels......get off the pot? #### if thats the case SUZU has a major case of constipation I think. lol

 

[BulletTrain]

Well train it's been a slow process each year of them getting closer and closer to our heels......get off the pot? #### if thats the case SUZU has a major case of constipation I think. lol

I agree with you 100%... I agree that the looks need to stay just as they are, except go back to some respectable factory paint schemes that stay with the "falcon" aura of the busa of course... I also agree that it needs some updates. Specifically weight loss. Even if they just shaved maybe 50 lbs off and went with lighter wheels. The power/performance is there... I think the improvements needed are more likely located in the weight and maybe suspension department.

 

[busa_boy_69]

Couldn't have said it better myself!

 

[Tufbusa]

Suzuki makes bikes to convert to $. That is their sole interest. The old american way, to make money. The busa sells and sells well. The busa really has no competition other than the 12 and the busa outsells the 12 several times over. So Suzuki has no incenitive to invest a ton of money in improvements.

Improving a bike like the busa is not a simple task such as increasing the horse power? The power train has to be improved throughout to accept the added power. The more power they add, the stronger the drivetrain (Clutch, transmission, drive chain, softer tires with shorter life) has to be. If you increase the power to the point the tire spins every time you crank the throttle hard, the BT56 will no longer be sufficent. So would you be happy with that and be forced to run soft tires with a live expectancy of no more than a thousand miles? Suzuki can't take a chance on increasing the HP unless they are convinced the rest of the bike will take it and still be bullet proof. Right now the busa is a great package. It has really good power and the complete drivetrain seems to be bullet proof. Ride it as hard as you want and it just begs for more. I know many of you are begging for more HP. But it Ain't gonna happen. There may be a slight increase in power, five or ten HP and a slight decrease in weight but Suzuki is not going to do any drastic changes. The busa is just too good for it's own good as it is. I think Suzuki surprised themselves with the first busa introduced to the public and they sell like hotcakes!

With the three top contender liter bikes (ZX10 - R1 - Gixxer) nipping at the heals of the busa in quarter mile times as well as top speed, all are within a tenth of a second and a few mph, it's difficult for some to watch the gap become a little narrower with each passing year. One day, it will happen! The busa will be dethroned. Unless of course, Suzuki decides to improve the current model. The thing we must all remember, Suzuki has to build a bike that everyone can ride. If it gets to radical and only a hand full of hard core riders buy it, then it's no longer a money maker. That's not good for anyone. I would personally like to see some improvements, at least enough to keep it at the top of the heap?

My guess is, you can count the number of members on here on one hand that can ride a bone stock busa as they exist today, to it's full potential? Kirk and maybe a hand full of others? I'm certainly not included in that group! I have a bone stock busa and I can't milk it for all it's worth. Any Bozo can straddle the monster, twist the handle bar and see just how close he can get to the 200mph mark. But with a bucket full of balls and a hand full of skills, these unsuspecting souls are dancing in the devils doorway with the doors open wide. The little pointy tailed villian is standing just inside with a warm welcome "Come on in, I've been expecting you"!

 

[Red05]

Excellent thread, guys. I couldn't agree more that some weight loss and posssibly updating the front suspension would do wonders for the king. I don't even own one but I acknowledge the "King" for what it is. Bullet has good points about the litre bikes and even though I've only posted here a few days, I appreciate his posting in this forum still as well.

 

[BigDawg_03Busa]

This my opinion and only my opinion.   IT HAS TAKEN 6 YEARS FOR THE BUSA TO HAVE ANY COMPETITION besides the 12r.  So I commend Suz for that.  As I wait for 06' in anticipation I'm beginning to realize, what's the point of being to twist the throttle, barely keep the front wheel on the ground and nearly tear your shoulders from the socket up to 186 only to hit the rev limiter.  

The Busa is AND ALWAYS WILL BE THE SPEED KING, not because it's the quickest on the market, but because it was and still is the FASTEST STOCK MOTORCYCLE (TOP END SPEED) to ever land on mother earth.  If we were still unrestricted, litre bike owners wouldn't even be running their mouths and zx12r owners would still be trying to catch up.  

200mph on a laser guided missle (Busa) built exactly to do just that is not the same as taking a much lighter less aerodynamic motorcycle designed for quick directional changes to the same speed (DANGER!).  As it is we can no longer take a "STOCK" motorcycle to within the 200mph range, so it's been open season on the Busa for the last 6 years and well IT'S ABOUT TIME!  Thus, the BUSA is and ALWAYS will be the "SPEED KING".  

On it's inception the Busa completely changed the classification of "SPEED".  The reason the litre bikes are beating Busas is one alot of tools are riding Busa's making other Busa owners look bad, when they shouldn't be out there bragging on their bikes riding at a 1st grade riding level (I'm not saying I'm a professional, but I'm not out there selling wolf tickets either).  

For the record (my record only) I've seen guys go up against each other and when the riding skills, mods and weight of rider are equal the Busa has come out on top every friggin time minus rider error.  I'm not talking about a quick run stop light to stop light  either, I'm talking about a run for 1/4 mile or greater.  THAT'S SPEED, we're talking about quickness and there is a difference.  Everyone who has raced a litre bike from a roll on was immediately in the hole a few bike lengths, again quickness.  Now if they continue at there clip all the way through the gears and top out their speed, regardless of the hp (165 a piece)  torpue, weight and aerodynamics come in to play SSSPPPPEEEEEDDDDD.

Now everyone chime in on how "I saw this" and "I did this", but the fact remains the same.  If manufactors cont to compete in speed rather than handling, how long will it be before there will be motoGP capable bikes on the road.  Oh my, better have that insurance policy together.  I know I'm ranting, but I've gotten a revelation (well said by tufbusa), until your maxing out what you've got, what's the point of wanting more?  It won't make up for rider error or skill.

My .02 and my .02 only.
BD



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[Darkflame]

Stability is always the most important factor when it comes to a motorcycle. Suzuki is fully capable of putting everything you want in a bike. They pretty much already accomplished that when they introduced the busa. Problem is great power requires great discipline. They could easily throw a 425 horse power engine. Make the bike 300 pounds and put enough torque on it to give you massive brain hemorging the minute you "attempted" to fully roll the throttle. (I say attempted because you'd be dead the minute you tried to). But what's gonna happen?

You're gonna have a influx of riders smeared over miles and miles of pavement because they smoked the living hell out of a ZX12 for the first 100 yards untill they lost it. Or they rode a corner on the rear pegs because that was what the bike was designed to do going at the speed it was.

Then everyone is gonna label the bike a death trap. No one will buy it but yes it will still be the king. To any soul brave/stupid enough to attempt to ride it.

Or how about another scenario.......

What's better? Build a bike that breaks records one year. leave the bike alone for 6-10 years while other bikes catch up. And use this time to do R&D and when the bike beats them one year, they introduce the next "busa" that has had 10 years of R&D gone into it, it's faster, more power, safer, easier to ride.....The the other bikes once again attempt to inch their way to the winners circle.

Or build a bike that breaks records one year. then make it a tad bit faster the next year, then a tad bit faster the next year, then a tad bit faster the next year...what's gonna happen is you'll keep pushing out bikes like a meat packing plant and leave your riders to be the crash dummies to find out where the flaws are only to have another bike that is yet faster then the previous bike when the previous bike didn't even have a life cycle long enough to fine tune what it was already capable of.

What alot of you don't realize the hayabusa and many other bikes are actually the same really....Only difference is suzuki got it right the first time. The other bikes had the same goal. They are just trying to find the right combination of factors to catch up. Think of the 2005 kawasaki zx-12 the same as the 1999 model. only 6 years of recalls and fine tuning on it's shoulders.



..................To some, seeing their fighter constantly train, fight, get stronger, repeat.. and slowly advance to the winners circle that brings them joy to their lives.........To others, it's the simlpe sight of their fighter calmly walking into the ring. Shaking the opponents hand gently them whaling the living bejesus out of him till he's within an inch of his life then calmly walk to corner seat, smoke a cigarette, grab a brew and change the station that brings joy in their lives....

 

[DAB]

Personally, I'd like to see Suzuki build a 'Busa Beater. A whole new machine with radical styling and mindblowing performance for the next 5 to 10 years. That'll give me enough time to ride the hell out of my 'Busa, and save up for the new one.

Just out of curiosity, what kind of spec would you like to see on the new "SuperBusa"? Larger capacity engine, less weight, smaller engine but more hp, more cylinders?

 

[fairlane]

This my opinion and only my opinion.   IT HAS TAKEN 6 YEARS FOR THE BUSA TO HAVE ANY COMPETITION besides the 12r.  So I commend Suz for that.  As I wait for 06' in anticipation I'm beginning to realize, what's the point of being to twist the throttle, barely keep the front wheel on the ground and nearly tear your shoulders from the socket up to 186 only to hit the rev limiter.  

The Busa is AND ALWAYS WILL BE THE SPEED KING, not because it's the quickest on the market, but because it was and still is the FASTEST STOCK MOTORCYCLE (TOP END SPEED) to ever land on mother earth.  If we were still unrestricted, litre bike owners wouldn't even be running their mouths and zx12r owners would still be trying to catch up.  

200mph on a laser guided missle (Busa) built exactly to do just that is not the same as taking a much lighter less aerodynamic motorcycle designed for quick directional changes to the same speed (DANGER!).  As it is we can no longer take a "STOCK" motorcycle to within the 200mph range, so it's been open season on the Busa for the last 6 years and well IT'S ABOUT TIME!  Thus, the BUSA is and ALWAYS will be the "SPEED KING".  

On it's inception the Busa completely changed the classification of "SPEED".  The reason the litre bikes are beating Busas is one alot of tools are riding Busa's making other Busa owners look bad, when they shouldn't be out there bragging on their bikes riding at a 1st grade riding level (I'm not saying I'm a professional, but I'm not out there selling wolf tickets either).  

For the record (my record only) I've seen guys go up against each other and when the riding skills, mods and weight of rider are equal the Busa has come out on top every friggin time minus rider error.  I'm not talking about a quick run stop light to stop light  either, I'm talking about a run for 1/4 mile or greater.  THAT'S SPEED, we're talking about quickness and there is a difference.  Everyone who has raced a litre bike from a roll on was immediately in the hole a few bike lengths, again quickness.  Now if they continue at there clip all the way through the gears and top out their speed, regardless of the hp (165 a piece)  torpue, weight and aerodynamics come in to play SSSPPPPEEEEEDDDDD.

Now everyone chime in on how "I saw this" and "I did this", but the fact remains the same.  If manufactors cont to compete in speed rather than handling, how long will it be before there will be motoGP capable bikes on the road.  Oh my, better have that insurance policy together.  I know I'm ranting, but I've gotten a revelation (well said by tufbusa), until your maxing out what you've got, what's the point of wanting more?  It won't make up for rider error or skill.

My .02 and my .02 only.
BD

hey big dawg glad i read this post.wish i would have read this before i started a thread.the part about roll ons with litre bikes made sence just wish that would have been said earlier in stead of all the troll talk.should have openend my eyes before my mouth!!THANKS ALOT!!

 

[Black&Bluebusa]

have patience grasshopper

 

[busa_boy_69]

Darkflame.....I am not totally disagreeing with what you are saying about that fact that there are some people who go out and by this bike when it is already too much for them to handle. However.....I have no problems with the power of the busa. Now i totally agree the second you don't respect this bike it will kill you....but if you ride within your skills you are fine. But to say that unless you are screaming around at 200 mph there is no need for more performance is kinda pointless. Many of us here would like the extra power because we are comfortable with it. Look at all the guys that have TURBOS on their bikes and they haven't killed themselves and ride them all the time. Some of those guys are hitting 250+ hp at the rear wheel and LOVE their bikes. Saying that this bike doesn't need more performance is crazy when litre bikes are catching it. And if Suzuki wanted to up it 30 hp or so it could totally be done without having to run a different tire on the back. Thats just ridiculous I am sorry. Unless you are doing burnouts on the thing or track racing it the occasional twist of the throttle is not gonna melt your rubber. Now the setup may have to be changed slightly to adjust for the extra power but I can not see 30 hp or so making that big a change in the setup. I mean a pc3 and a full exhaut gives you 15 horsepower alone and that doesn't affect the bike at all. And EVEN IF Suzuki isn't gonna up the power......with the midrange torque this bike has why not at least get it closer to the weight to horsepower ratio that the litre bikes have? I know the bike could stand to lose at least 30-50 lbs. That in itself would be a totally doable change from suzuki that would have the busa running a lot stronger with the lighter bikes. I dunno I am not gonna speak for everyone I am just gonna personally say that if suzuki put the busa around 190 stock hp and 30+ lbs lighter I would trade mine in in a heart beat!