TheAtomicAss
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1352 is what I've been hearing. Just barely enough to call it a 14.
The ZX-14
- Thread starter busa_boy_69
- Start date
Here's my .02....Even in stock configs?...the Hayabusa offers up more bike, more engine and more power than any rider I ever known or knew can honestly master and 99.99999% of the riders out there will NEVER be able to outride the hayabusa's power therefore?...the only busa folk the ZX-14 will threaten or intimidate are those who's busas primary personal value was to BRAG that they OWNED the worlds fastest production bike...but real world busa riders and engine/performance modding racers will remain unintimidated and largely unaffected by the yet to be seen performance advantages of the ZX-14 for the following two reasons...
1. Kaw used the base engine from the ZX-12 to create the new 14 so...it's so close to being as big as it's ever gonna get (or ABLE to be displacement wise) that aftermarketers will turn a blind eye regarding the possibility of creating any aftermarket "Big Bore Kits"...leaving the new ZX-14 all it's ever gonna be as stock as...it already is...
"just a 12 with a 1,352 Big Bore Kit".
2. The busa has already established it's kingdom. A virtual empire of extremist. And a loyal lions share of serious street riders, drag racers and aftermarket modders...to the point that even an extreme advertising campaign wouldn't even come close to tumbling the mighty busa empire even if Kaw had truely built a completely new and improved bike..which they didn't...they just installed a factory big bore kit in their old 12R.
Oh all the rags and the blushing editors will write-up all their glowing first ride reports and according to them the new ZX-14's engine will be the best thing since sliced bread but...I predict that Kaw will remain true to form and as usual?...their chassis and handling will not be able to tame their unruly beast of an engine and the suspension will blow and as usual?...it'll be a rip roaring engine mounted in a flexi-flyer frame with harsh @$$ suspension..for one monster of an ill-mannored, mis-handling bike....wavey rotors and all!!!
L8R, Bill.
1. Kaw used the base engine from the ZX-12 to create the new 14 so...it's so close to being as big as it's ever gonna get (or ABLE to be displacement wise) that aftermarketers will turn a blind eye regarding the possibility of creating any aftermarket "Big Bore Kits"...leaving the new ZX-14 all it's ever gonna be as stock as...it already is...
"just a 12 with a 1,352 Big Bore Kit".
2. The busa has already established it's kingdom. A virtual empire of extremist. And a loyal lions share of serious street riders, drag racers and aftermarket modders...to the point that even an extreme advertising campaign wouldn't even come close to tumbling the mighty busa empire even if Kaw had truely built a completely new and improved bike..which they didn't...they just installed a factory big bore kit in their old 12R.
Oh all the rags and the blushing editors will write-up all their glowing first ride reports and according to them the new ZX-14's engine will be the best thing since sliced bread but...I predict that Kaw will remain true to form and as usual?...their chassis and handling will not be able to tame their unruly beast of an engine and the suspension will blow and as usual?...it'll be a rip roaring engine mounted in a flexi-flyer frame with harsh @$$ suspension..for one monster of an ill-mannored, mis-handling bike....wavey rotors and all!!!
L8R, Bill.
Whoa Nelly...1. Kaw used the base engine from the ZX-12 to create the new 14 so...it's so close to being as big as it's ever gonna get (or ABLE to be displacement wise) that aftermarketers will turn a blind eye regarding the possibility of creating any aftermarket "Big Bore Kits"...leaving the new ZX-14 all it's ever gonna be as stock as...it already is...
"just a 12 with a 1,352 Big Bore Kit".
Where did this come from??
Ya got some secret source??
Go read Kaws website...it clearly stated that the new ZX-14's engine is based on the ZX-12's.Whoa Nelly...1. Kaw used the base engine from the ZX-12 to create the new 14 so...it's so close to being as big as it's ever gonna get (or ABLE to be displacement wise) that aftermarketers will turn a blind eye regarding the possibility of creating any aftermarket "Big Bore Kits"...leaving the new ZX-14 all it's ever gonna be as stock as...it already is...
"just a 12 with a 1,352 Big Bore Kit".
Where did this come from??
Ya got some secret source??
With the current suzuki hayabusa's low compression ratio with room to grow --- versus the 12, or 14 for that matter which have much higher comp.., - do you think that the "new" Busa will be anything more than a bored out version of the current engine?
I bet dollars to donuts, the "new" busa will be a higher compression same engine bored out enough to be classified as a 1400.
Will we all accept THAT -as readily as we are to condemn the Kawasaki?
I think the right thing to do is realize that the "crown" or "title" belongs to the model that is showroom stock, and puts out the biggest numbers and performance.
You dont mod a stock machine and then claim that it holds a title over another mfgr's stock machine. Thats ridiculous.
Whoever puts in the dealership a showroom stocker with the highest HP gets the be called the most powerful.
Whoever puts out a showroom stocker that can go the fastest top speed gets to be called the fastest.
Whoever puts out a showroom stocker that holds the lowest 1/4 mile time is to be called the quickest.
The only flaw in determining the fastest is the restriction in place since 2000. To call the 1999 busa the fastest for the rest of eternity because it ran unrestricted prior to the agreement to restrict....would be foolish.
Thats like saying a Z06 Corvette (if for some reason was recently restricted to 80mph is slower than, say, a 1957 chevrolet).
Bypass the restriction, and we will all see which bike if left showroom stock, - is the fastest in top speed.
And don't say that bypassing the restrictor would make it no longer showroom stock unless you are willing to admit that the zx12r is the fastest bike over the busa, since the busa is restricted to 183, and the 12 goes happily to 186 before it is restricted.
So if you own a stock busa from any year other than a 1999 hayabusa, you have a slower bike than the 12r. Like how that sounds? Probably not. So you better be willing to allow an unrestricted zx14 show what it can do up top...before claiming the busa is still fastest.
Even the zx10 will reach higher than 183mph. Maybe the Gixxer1k too?
All Im saying is to be careful what you wish for, when you want to make a case that Kawasaki is "only boring out the 12"...- it seems that suzuki is even MORE likely to "only bore out the 13"...since the busa has a lot more room for compression.
Will you call suzuki out on the carpet for THAT?
Bottom line is whoever puts out a showroom stocker that beats out the others in stock form...is the king of whatever.
I bet dollars to donuts, the "new" busa will be a higher compression same engine bored out enough to be classified as a 1400.
Will we all accept THAT -as readily as we are to condemn the Kawasaki?
I think the right thing to do is realize that the "crown" or "title" belongs to the model that is showroom stock, and puts out the biggest numbers and performance.
You dont mod a stock machine and then claim that it holds a title over another mfgr's stock machine. Thats ridiculous.
Whoever puts in the dealership a showroom stocker with the highest HP gets the be called the most powerful.
Whoever puts out a showroom stocker that can go the fastest top speed gets to be called the fastest.
Whoever puts out a showroom stocker that holds the lowest 1/4 mile time is to be called the quickest.
The only flaw in determining the fastest is the restriction in place since 2000. To call the 1999 busa the fastest for the rest of eternity because it ran unrestricted prior to the agreement to restrict....would be foolish.
Thats like saying a Z06 Corvette (if for some reason was recently restricted to 80mph is slower than, say, a 1957 chevrolet).
Bypass the restriction, and we will all see which bike if left showroom stock, - is the fastest in top speed.
And don't say that bypassing the restrictor would make it no longer showroom stock unless you are willing to admit that the zx12r is the fastest bike over the busa, since the busa is restricted to 183, and the 12 goes happily to 186 before it is restricted.
So if you own a stock busa from any year other than a 1999 hayabusa, you have a slower bike than the 12r. Like how that sounds? Probably not. So you better be willing to allow an unrestricted zx14 show what it can do up top...before claiming the busa is still fastest.
Even the zx10 will reach higher than 183mph. Maybe the Gixxer1k too?
All Im saying is to be careful what you wish for, when you want to make a case that Kawasaki is "only boring out the 12"...- it seems that suzuki is even MORE likely to "only bore out the 13"...since the busa has a lot more room for compression.
Will you call suzuki out on the carpet for THAT?
Bottom line is whoever puts out a showroom stocker that beats out the others in stock form...is the king of whatever.
Okay, I'll have to go read it again. As I recall, Kawi has said that the 14 evolved from the 12r. You could be right that this means it's the same basic engine, expanded. Or, it could be the next evolutionary step from the 12r in the same way it could be said that the GSX1300R 'evolved from' the GS1100E.Go read Kaws website...it clearly stated that the new ZX-14's engine is based on the ZX-12's.Whoa Nelly...1. Kaw used the base engine from the ZX-12 to create the new 14 so...it's so close to being as big as it's ever gonna get (or ABLE to be displacement wise) that aftermarketers will turn a blind eye regarding the possibility of creating any aftermarket "Big Bore Kits"...leaving the new ZX-14 all it's ever gonna be as stock as...it already is...
"just a 12 with a 1,352 Big Bore Kit".
Where did this come from??
Ya got some secret source??
But, simply dropping a 61mm crank in the 12r wouldn't be a simple task...
I specifically read somewhere that Kawasaki engineers claimed this NEW zx14 engine to be A new GENERATION of engines. How could they claim a new generation if its a bore out.Okay, I'll have to go read it again. As I recall, Kawi has said that the 14 evolved from the 12r. You could be right that this means it's the same basic engine, expanded. Or, it could be the next evolutionary step from the 12r in the same way it could be said that the GSX1300R 'evolved from' the GS1100E.Go read Kaws website...it clearly stated that the new ZX-14's engine is based on the ZX-12's.Whoa Nelly...1. Kaw used the base engine from the ZX-12 to create the new 14 so...it's so close to being as big as it's ever gonna get (or ABLE to be displacement wise) that aftermarketers will turn a blind eye regarding the possibility of creating any aftermarket "Big Bore Kits"...leaving the new ZX-14 all it's ever gonna be as stock as...it already is...
"just a 12 with a 1,352 Big Bore Kit".
Where did this come from??
Ya got some secret source??
But, simply dropping a 61mm crank in the 12r wouldn't be a simple task...
I thought that meant it was a new engine.
This was lifted from an old clipping somewhere off easyriders site - its definitely Kawasaki Press Release verbage:
"""""The Aura of Power
Powered by an all-new engine (1352cc, bore x stroke is 84x61mm) force-fed with Ram Air and fuel injection, the ZZR1400 churns out unheard of levels of thrust. This is Kawasaki's most powerful power plant ever and marks the start of a new engine generation.''''''''
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Mr Brown
Registered
Yeah, that'll beat a zx14, right up until you blow it to pieces.......
The 12, and prolly the 14, make their power differently than the Busa. The advantage the Busa has is bottom end, if you don't jump all over a 12 or liter bike off the line, good luck cathing one. The Busa will prolly be outpowered by the 14, just like it is by the 12, we'll see how well Kaw has done with the entire package.
As far as "supporting" Kaw or any other bike/car manufacturer, I don't care who makes it, I just love fast sh!t.
Dontcha think Kawasaki knows how to design aeros?
They are claiming the slipperiest bike ever made...they Do make planes ya know....
They made the 12 aero enough to match the busa with 100 less cc. Certainly the busa aeros were a bit better...but thats a 6 year old issue. Today is a new day.
I think the 14 just by looking at it - is the same aeros as the busa but with a giant hole in the middle for sucking in air. - translates to improvement in my opinion - over the busas side intakes.
Mr Brown
Registered
do you think that the "new" Busa will be anything more than a bored out version of the current engine?
[/QUOTE]
I believe the current one is based on the RF 900 motor, so you're prolly right....
The only flaw in determining the fastest is the restriction in place since 2000. To call the 1999 busa the fastest for the rest of eternity because it ran unrestricted prior to the agreement to restrict....would be foolish.
[/QUOTE]
Almost right, 2000's aren't restricted either.....
So if you own a stock busa from any year other than a 1999 hayabusa, you have a slower bike than the 12r. Like how that sounds? Probably not. So you better be willing to allow an unrestricted zx14 show what it can do up top...before claiming the busa is still fastest.
[/QUOTE]
Restricted or not, the 12, and therefore the 14 are fast as f@#k. It's not like Kaw doesn't know how to make a fast bike. The original ZX9, 10 and 11 all were the fastest bikes around for a long, long time. They ate everything Suzi could throw at them for years......
Kaw makes good, fast bikes, has been for years. I bought my Busa cuz I liked it, it was fast, and it's a superior drag racing platform. Had the 12 been the better platform, I'd have bought one of them instead......
[/QUOTE]
I believe the current one is based on the RF 900 motor, so you're prolly right....
The only flaw in determining the fastest is the restriction in place since 2000. To call the 1999 busa the fastest for the rest of eternity because it ran unrestricted prior to the agreement to restrict....would be foolish.
[/QUOTE]
Almost right, 2000's aren't restricted either.....
So if you own a stock busa from any year other than a 1999 hayabusa, you have a slower bike than the 12r. Like how that sounds? Probably not. So you better be willing to allow an unrestricted zx14 show what it can do up top...before claiming the busa is still fastest.
[/QUOTE]
Restricted or not, the 12, and therefore the 14 are fast as f@#k. It's not like Kaw doesn't know how to make a fast bike. The original ZX9, 10 and 11 all were the fastest bikes around for a long, long time. They ate everything Suzi could throw at them for years......
Kaw makes good, fast bikes, has been for years. I bought my Busa cuz I liked it, it was fast, and it's a superior drag racing platform. Had the 12 been the better platform, I'd have bought one of them instead......
Bro, - I didnt just own a 12, and a busa, but I also owned a zx11, which is a whole OTHER generation of speed king....
Im 35, so I am not THAT old, either.
I am NOT saying I cant stand "people" that never rode a 12. I am saying that I just dont like to hear people who are loyal to ONE model of bike, claiming things along the lines of what you were claiming.
I am glad to be on the board with ya, and you belong here just as much as I do. No doubt, my friend.
I am just saying that the 1300 busa is a 7 year old bike now, and unless you have seen how close these bikes are by riding them, you should be careful not to sound "too blindly loyal".
I think my 12 was faster up top. I think my busa is faster down low. I think the zx11 is a bike NEITHER the 12 nor the busa can shake off their tail.
I bet you a lot of busa owners dont know much about the old zx11, but the truth is, it would be in the sideview mirrors of a busa and it be much closer than it appears.
Fact is, all the hyperbikes are damn close. Now the literbikes are all up into the busa's 1999 territory.
The zx14 looks from every conceivable angle to beat the pants off the busa. Only a person who refuses to admit that on a point by point basis, the 14 is dominant...is the type of person I consider to be emotionally driven, and not logical, - therefore a blind loyalist.
sure it remains to be seen. But I would put my hard earned money on the 14 until suzuki does something to beat it down the road.
I think the current busa is toast.
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Yup, that's what I'm thinking as well. New cases, new block, new head = new engine in my book.I specifically read somewhere that Kawasaki engineers claimed this NEW zx14 engine to be A new GENERATION of engines. How could they claim a new generation if its a bore out.Okay, I'll have to go read it again. As I recall, Kawi has said that the 14 evolved from the 12r. You could be right that this means it's the same basic engine, expanded. Or, it could be the next evolutionary step from the 12r in the same way it could be said that the GSX1300R 'evolved from' the GS1100E.Go read Kaws website...it clearly stated that the new ZX-14's engine is based on the ZX-12's.Whoa Nelly...1. Kaw used the base engine from the ZX-12 to create the new 14 so...it's so close to being as big as it's ever gonna get (or ABLE to be displacement wise) that aftermarketers will turn a blind eye regarding the possibility of creating any aftermarket "Big Bore Kits"...leaving the new ZX-14 all it's ever gonna be as stock as...it already is...
"just a 12 with a 1,352 Big Bore Kit".
Where did this come from??
Ya got some secret source??
But, simply dropping a 61mm crank in the 12r wouldn't be a simple task...
I thought that meant it was a new engine.
This was lifted from an old clipping somewhere off easyriders site - its definitely Kawasaki Press Release verbage:
"""""The Aura of Power
Powered by an all-new engine (1352cc, bore x stroke is 84x61mm) force-fed with Ram Air and fuel injection, the ZZR1400 churns out unheard of levels of thrust. This is Kawasaki's most powerful power plant ever and marks the start of a new engine generation.''''''''
I guess we'll see.
flfiremedic
Registered
To me it all comes down to what shows up to race, and realisticly when money starts talking it isn't stock bikes that line up. How many people on here have stock bikes? From what I gather Kawi has this thing pretty much maxed out, and the Busa definitely isn't. By the time any speed goodies show up for the new ZX, hopefully the new Busa will be out, and even if it isn't, when it comes to modified bikes, I have a feeling that the Busa will still be winning.
Just my .02 cents worth.
Just my .02 cents worth.
There really isnt anything that anyone knows for sure that says the zx14 engine is already maxxed out.
We all know that any bike in a high state of tune, with compression like the 12 had - neighborhood of 12.5:1...is going to make oodles of extra power once the epa restrictions are removed and a good flowing exhaust is added.
I suspect that a stock bike with the 14's characteristics will only improve the same amount as our current favorite bikes, albeit - the 14 will have just that much of a head start.
Seems to me the 14 is simply starting where a majority of hyperbikes usually end up with slightly above modest modifications.
Turbo's are a whole different story. Im talking exhaust, bore, airbox..PC etc/
busa_boy_69
Registered
I see what you are saying bro. I think you misunderstood what i was saying though. My point was that anytime you have two bikes such as the Busa and ZX12 that are ALREADY running into the 9's in the quarter that it takes a LOT of engine upgrades to start dropping the quarter time more. I have no doubts that if the Kaw is putting out 200hp it is gonna smoke the Busa. The litre bikes are already nipping at our heels now with hp #'s in the 160's. I mean thats 40 more ponies there. My thing is I don't see it being THAT drastic of a difference. Sure it is gonna beat the busa but to totally smash it into the dirt it would take something just short of a drag bike. But it is also hard to tell exactly what this thing is capable of until we see some real numbers anyways. Don't get me wrong I am not one of these brand loyal guys. I mean I do love Suzuki but that is only because I have rode different bikes from honda to Kawasaki. I even learned to RIDE on a Kawasaki. I have an open mind to different bikes. I just think it's a shame to see the bike that I just happen to love from my own experience with it falling through the cracks and not getting any kind of changes done to it. But regardless like Jinkster said the bike has plenty of power for the average rider and I plan on big boring mine anyways. I guess we will just see what happens next year and maybe Suzuki will take a little more pride in the Busa besides just letting it be an unchanged bike that makes them good sales figures because it's popularity is increasing with the cult type following it is beggining to inspire.
BB69
I hear ya, Busaboy69. Its fun to get behind your ride, too, I know that. I am thrilled that a zx14 has come out...but-
I have to admit, I am probably MOST excited to see what Suzuki does to counter the zx14.
While I was very happy riding the 11 and 12, and prior to that a Kawi ZR7-S....I thought I was a kawi guy. But since I have had the busa, I have found myself appreciating the fit and finish among other things...and I look forward to a monster busa in 07.
I must admit, also, that while the Kawi's impressed me with their high performance outputs with lesser size engines...
I am not happy about how many blow their engines or especially the typical thrown third rod.
Oil levels in the old 11, and even the zx12r are so damn dangerously specific and sensitive, you have to be exactly right --or you run the risk of ruining the engine...
I am happy to be free of that worry now that I have the suz straining less to do the same work.
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