I believe that the message is more siginificant than the messenger.
United Empire of America....
- Thread starter Projekt
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I believe that the message is more siginificant than the messenger.
J'Man
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No it didn't stop after Einstein. The concession by science was the fact that prior to the 20th century scientist thought the universe was eternal which obviously was in direct conflict with what the Bible states. It wasn't until Einstein's theory of general relativity and Hubble's astronomical observations that disproved the universe to be eternal. We now know beyond a reasonable doubt that the universe began at some point in the finite past, which is back in-line with the bible.
J'Man
Registered
You didn't answer my question, but that's ok I won't press you on it. It's all good. As always though I did enjoy the debate.
The Bible also states in black and white that the earth has 4 corners. Now I think we both argee that the verse is not meant to be literal, as you mentioned cardinal directions, right? So how do you distinguish the verses that are literal and those that are not?
To hazard a guess, Dino makes a distinction between;
belief
1 : a state or habit of mind in which trust or confidence is placed in some person or thing
2 : something believed; especially : a tenet or body of tenets held by a group
3 : conviction of the truth of some statement or the reality of some being or phenomenon especially when based on examination of evidence
and,
Faith
1 a : allegiance to duty or a person : loyalty b (1) : fidelity to one's promises (2) : sincerity of intentions
2 a (1) : belief and trust in and loyalty to God (2) : belief in the traditional doctrines of a religion b (1) : firm belief in something for which there is no proof (2) : complete trust
3 : something that is believed especially with strong conviction; especially : a system of religious beliefs <the Protestant faith>
belief - Definition from the Merriam-Webster Online Dictionary
faith - Definition from the Merriam-Webster Online Dictionary
cheers
ken
belief
1 : a state or habit of mind in which trust or confidence is placed in some person or thing
2 : something believed; especially : a tenet or body of tenets held by a group
3 : conviction of the truth of some statement or the reality of some being or phenomenon especially when based on examination of evidence
and,
Faith
1 a : allegiance to duty or a person : loyalty b (1) : fidelity to one's promises (2) : sincerity of intentions
2 a (1) : belief and trust in and loyalty to God (2) : belief in the traditional doctrines of a religion b (1) : firm belief in something for which there is no proof (2) : complete trust
3 : something that is believed especially with strong conviction; especially : a system of religious beliefs <the Protestant faith>
belief - Definition from the Merriam-Webster Online Dictionary
faith - Definition from the Merriam-Webster Online Dictionary
cheers
ken
J'Man
Registered
Once you are saved and you truly believe (on faith), I believe God will begin to reveal himself to you. I can tell you from my own personal experience that God has revealed new meanings to me on passages I had read many times previously.
Steph, I understand you're looking for that smoking gun to either prove or disprove God. The problem is God is not on trial. He doesn't have to prove himself. He's God. Personally I believe that's why he doesn't make himself so apparent until he returns. If you could see him it wouldn't take much faith to believe in him now would it? As I shared with another member on the site, the evidence is all around you. It just depends on the source you trust to explain it. Personally I will never put the outcome of my eternity in the hands of man. I would prefer to trust God and if I turn out to be wrong, then I'm worm food. If you turn out to be wrong, you've got a big problem to deal with.
I believe initially when I first began going to church I was only looking for a "fire insurance policy", however I can honestly say the more God revealed himself to me the more I fell in love with him. I can only hope that you experience that too some day.
Again, I've enjoyed this discussion tonight, but I've got to turn in fellas. Hope all of you have a good night.
Thanks,
J
Wait now you siad it was true, and there was historical record to prove it. Now that would indicate you did not need faith to support your belief that is is all true, because historical record would support your faith. Unless of course it doesn't, take my example of there being no written evidence or geological evidence of a flood. Do you only accept historical records that support your faith and discount others?
You point out correctly the passages I offered as being figurative in their comparison of the "four corners" to the Cardinal Directions because of course we all know that the earth has no corners.
Now your answer to my asking how you know what to distinguish what is literal and what is figurative you tell me you need faith to determine, that is a little convienant do ya think?
So some verses are literal and some are not, some can be proven by historical record but there are problems with historical record that disproves portions. And you can't figure out which is which with out faith?
I am not at all trying to disprove God, all I am saying is that it is not necessary to accept the Bible as being a factual document to believe in God.
afterhours
Registered
the book is either all the word of god...or not. the church picks and choose the parts that agree with is idealology, and politcis.....and ignores he rest.
I just don't know where to begin! 
God built a faulty world!
Were expected to prove ourselves worthy of his recognition for what?
To watch various diseases eat away loved ones?
Innocent children born into this world with minor to life ending defects? God has a plan for us all? Like ending a child's life before it even started or allowing it to come into existence to live a life of pain?
Faith is nothing but a cheap escape goat to the reality around them.
The belief in God is nothing but a sleeping pill so one can sleep at night and accept what happens around them.
A person who doesn't believe can be equally if not greater of a person just by doing what they deem good and noble in their everyday life. He's doing it for his own reasons,not because it's what expected of him. And a nonbeliever certainly isn't doing it for what might occur post life!
Bottom line God can't be proved or disproved. Although it is odd that he very well made his existence known at one point(so it is written) in time when the average intelligence was sub par(to current status) and now that was have a better understanding of the universe he still chooses silence? Sure many claim they felt his influence or presence,but nothing like what is written in the bible. How much harmony in this world would there be if he did come forward out into the open of the world. Certainly it would clear up a lot of issues?
It's a shame so many bought beach front property in the desert cause they were told it was so.
God built a faulty world!
Were expected to prove ourselves worthy of his recognition for what?
To watch various diseases eat away loved ones?
Innocent children born into this world with minor to life ending defects? God has a plan for us all? Like ending a child's life before it even started or allowing it to come into existence to live a life of pain?
Faith is nothing but a cheap escape goat to the reality around them.
The belief in God is nothing but a sleeping pill so one can sleep at night and accept what happens around them.
A person who doesn't believe can be equally if not greater of a person just by doing what they deem good and noble in their everyday life. He's doing it for his own reasons,not because it's what expected of him. And a nonbeliever certainly isn't doing it for what might occur post life!
Bottom line God can't be proved or disproved. Although it is odd that he very well made his existence known at one point(so it is written) in time when the average intelligence was sub par(to current status) and now that was have a better understanding of the universe he still chooses silence? Sure many claim they felt his influence or presence,but nothing like what is written in the bible. How much harmony in this world would there be if he did come forward out into the open of the world. Certainly it would clear up a lot of issues?
It's a shame so many bought beach front property in the desert cause they were told it was so.
I've created a monster.....
Again..
I left it till 7 pages before building others ignore list!
God's folly is man's wisdom
Projekt
Registered
I just don't know where to begin!
God built a faulty world!
Were expected to prove ourselves worthy of his recognition for what?
To watch various diseases eat away loved ones?
Innocent children born into this world with minor to life ending defects? God has a plan for us all? Like ending a child's life before it even started or allowing it to come into existence to live a life of pain?
Faith is nothing but a cheap escape goat to the reality around them.
The belief in God is nothing but a sleeping pill so one can sleep at night and accept what happens around them.
A person who doesn't believe can be equally if not greater of a person just by doing what they deem good and noble in their everyday life. He's doing it for his own reasons,not because it's what expected of him. And a nonbeliever certainly isn't doing it for what might occur post life!
Bottom line God can't be proved or disproved. Although it is odd that he very well made his existence known at one point(so it is written) in time when the average intelligence was sub par(to current status) and now that was have a better understanding of the universe he still chooses silence? Sure many claim they felt his influence or presence,but nothing like what is written in the bible. How much harmony in this world would there be if he did come forward out into the open of the world. Certainly it would clear up a lot of issues?
Been busy and haven't been able to keep up with the org lately. Where to begin.
There are 2 powers in play, good and evil. For the time being, Satan has dominion over the Earth. God has given us free will to chose between God and Satan. If he revealed himself and gave proof of his existence, our free will would be taken away. Satan has a large bag of tools he uses to keep people from seeking out God.
I don't have time to go into the God vs science thing this morning. I intentionally didn't say religion vs science. Religion is filled with the rituals of man which are not always in alignment with God's doctrine.
Don't think I want to be around for His next appearance.
Good and Evil
`What is good and what is evil?'
Philosophers of all ages have thought over this question.
Each reckoned that he had solved the question once and for all, yet within a few years the problem would re-emerge with new dimensions.
In fact, most of the answers would be later found inadequate or unsatisfactory. Religious thinkers also joined in presenting a solution in this regard but only added confusion.
It also offers a solution to this question and an effort will be made to explain it.
A few basic questions need to be answered in order to arrive at some satisfactory answer. They are:
(i) Are good and evil absolute or are they relative to the conditions associated with time and place? Do conditions surrounding a particular situation make an act good and at another time make it evil? Does an act appear to be good in the overall perspective, but when torn away from its environment appear to be evil?
(ii) Is the concept of good and evil imbued in the nature of man or has he been given divine guidance? If not, how are good and evil identified? If reason is the only guide, is there some criteria to determine what is good and what is evil?
(iii) If good and evil are independent, do they have the same creator? Or is God the Creator of good alone? If so, who has created evil?
(iv) If the knowledge of good and evil is instinctive, there should be uniformity of thought between various nations, religions and groups; but there are vast differences among them in almost every aspect. What are the reasons?
These questions have been thought over by philosophers and thinkers of all times. I will now briefly discuss their views. However, I will mention only those philosophers whose views left a deep impact upon philosophical thought.
`What is good and what is evil?'
Philosophers of all ages have thought over this question.
Each reckoned that he had solved the question once and for all, yet within a few years the problem would re-emerge with new dimensions.
In fact, most of the answers would be later found inadequate or unsatisfactory. Religious thinkers also joined in presenting a solution in this regard but only added confusion.
It also offers a solution to this question and an effort will be made to explain it.
A few basic questions need to be answered in order to arrive at some satisfactory answer. They are:
(i) Are good and evil absolute or are they relative to the conditions associated with time and place? Do conditions surrounding a particular situation make an act good and at another time make it evil? Does an act appear to be good in the overall perspective, but when torn away from its environment appear to be evil?
(ii) Is the concept of good and evil imbued in the nature of man or has he been given divine guidance? If not, how are good and evil identified? If reason is the only guide, is there some criteria to determine what is good and what is evil?
(iii) If good and evil are independent, do they have the same creator? Or is God the Creator of good alone? If so, who has created evil?
(iv) If the knowledge of good and evil is instinctive, there should be uniformity of thought between various nations, religions and groups; but there are vast differences among them in almost every aspect. What are the reasons?
These questions have been thought over by philosophers and thinkers of all times. I will now briefly discuss their views. However, I will mention only those philosophers whose views left a deep impact upon philosophical thought.
J'Man
Registered
So are you saying you believe there is a God, but just that it may not be the Christian God? I'm still unclear on what you believe. That's why I asked about it last night.
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