Unlucky 13

[OB_FalconCOP161]

During this past thanksgiving weekend NJ had 13 fatalities in motor vehicles. Unknown at this time whether by DWI Drivers,But don't be surprised.

13 too many

Ride Safe 161 ®

 

[OB_KEVTEC]

That is sad,over Thanksgiving here in northern OH,a 17 yr old girl hit an e-150 conversion head on,I watched them try to get her out for 2 hrs.She was on her way to the baby sitters to get her 3 month old child.DOA

 

[OB_Konrad]

Kaw,
Are those kill figures US or world-wide?
I wonder what the total production run to date on the Busa is? I also wonder if the
stats are way out of range with other superbikes? I would doubt it but dont
know for sure

 

[Guest]

Kawabuser

I don't mean to give you a hard time but
that number 18 kia on a Busa bothers me.

We as a group know of only one. Is that right guys?? Does anyone actually know of others?

Is there any chance of confirming this number with an insurance guy. I asked my local insurance guy about it a while back and his company (Erie) didn't have any numbers for '99 yet. He referred me to the NTSB. Perhaps I'll try to call them this week.

Also Konrad has a good point, how does that compare to other "hot" bikes. F4's R1's etc.



[This message has been edited by Lyle (edited 30 November 1999).]

 

[OB_Dirty Pete]

Given that the average age on this forum is around 42, and assuming that reflects reality for the Hayabusa in general usage, I bet the kill rate for the Busa is way lower than it is for bikes that are more accessible to younger riders.

 

[OB_KawAbuser]

Guys the information was for the US, my source is reputable. I knew I would catch a little flack about the credibility, let me try to dig a little more into it. There are something like 2800 Busa in the US according to figures from US Suzuki they gave me in Sept 99. I have seen VIN # up to 3700 and the numbers seem to have no bearing on location.

Busa.org has 503 members, some without busa and some that do not post.

The originating conversation I had was about regional safety and big bore sportbikes and the (18)info was thrown in as a sidebar not as a topic. We were not dwelling on death. I posted it as food for thought, is any member an insurance agent. Maybe they could find out - sort of a gruesom subject though.

 

[OB_KawAbuser]

The national death toll of Hayabusa riders is a very unfortunate eighteen in 1999.
The insurance companies and politicians will have a field day with this. I hope the less experianced will take time to read the following again.

These are not my views and are here just as food for thought, The worst way to die would be running from a cop. I wonder what the percentage of the eighteen were killed in such antics.

If you ride a sportbike, chances are at one time or another, you will feel it necessary to
go fast. One of the main risks of high-speed antics is getting caught by The Man. In
the following pages you will read descriptions of techniques learned from countless
hours of evasion theory study by that lawfully riding guy.

Part One: Overcoming Social Pressure.

One of the most plausible reasons for not pulling a runner from the law is the simple
fear of getting caught. This is a perfectly reasonable fear. You are completely justified
in worrying about what will happen to you if you take off from the police. If you have
no fear or no qualms about running from the law, you are an idiot or a hardened criminal
who
needs no help from me anyway. The police have a job to do, and that job is getting
criminal
scum off the streets. The instant you whack that throttle open, tuck down, and run
from
the cops, you are criminal scum. There is no way around this.


Part Two: Ask Thyself Something.

Before you take off, you need to ask yourself a few things.

1.Is it worth it?
2.Do I have a chance?
3.Am I doing this because someone said to?

Is it worth it- Before you make a choice to run, you need to think about this. If you get
busted for felony evasion when you might have had a ticket for 60 in a 55, you won't
think
so. If you get pistol-whipped by a police officer all worked up after a 50-mile pursuit,
you won't think so. If you crash your bike and break yourself, you won't think so. If you
hit a child with your bike, you won't think so.

Do I have a chance?- If you already decided it was worth it to nail it and bugger off,
are you now capable of getting away? Are you in bumper-to-bumper traffic on a
highway where you have no real escape? Did the cop see your plate? Is your bike
running well? Can you even ride worth a damn?

Am I doing this because someone said to?- DON'T take off because you read this damn
HTML file while you were geeking around on a computer. If someone writes about
running from the law, it doesn't mean he encourages it or wants you to try it. If
someone jumped off a cliff, would you?


Part Three: Why the Hell Would I Want to Do This?

The only good reason to run from the law is because you are a maniac. Only BAD
PEOPLE run from cops. Alternatively, if you were going WFO on a bike that you can
barely afford to insure anyway and any ticket will force you to sell it, why not? Also,
You get an incredible rush. Not that I would know anything about this, or anything like
that.

Part Four: Why Wouldn't I Want to Take Off?

As mentioned in part 2(1), 2(2), and 2(3). above, there are several good reasons to
not run from The Man. The main reason not to do this is IT IS AGAINST THE LAW AND
YOU CAN GO TO JAIL. Ok?


Part Five: Familiarity

First and foremost, you should have some notion of where you are. You can bet the
police officer is at least somewhat familiar with the area. You need to be able to take
evasive action without running into any problems that will land your *** in jail. Without
basic knowledge of the area, you can not make educated choices about evasion
routes. Ending up on a dead end street or on a gravel road can ruin your day.


Part Six: Commitment

Once you go, you are a Bad Person. There really is no turning back. The minute an
officer turns on his lights, you are supposed to stop. If you don't, you are now a
criminal. There is about as much chance of you talking your way out of it if you get
caught as there is a chance of you beating the entire Grand Prix grid in a race. Once
you go, the game is on.


Part Seven: Equipment

If you intend to be successful, your bike needs to be capable of keeping up with your
intentions.

Your motorcycle should be in good condition. Is your motor up to all you can ask of it?
Are the wheels going to fall off? Are you going to run out of gas? Can you stop if the
police block the road or some grey-hair pulls out in front of you? If it is night, does your
headlight work so you see what's in front of you? Will your chain fall off and lie like a
snake in the middle of the road?


Part Eight: Know Your Strengths

Motorcycles have certain advantages that make a runner more plausible.

First, motorcycles have superior acceleration and speed. The quickest cars are no
match for even the most mediocre motorcycles, and in many cases the chase is
effectively over in seconds when the motorcycle simply disappears from sight. A Ford
Crown Victoria like those used by many police departments in the United States takes
over 10 seconds to accelerate to 60 miles per hour. An average sportbike will do it
under 4 seconds. The Crown Vic takes over 18 seconds to complete a 1/4 mile. Modern
sportbikes can do this in well under 12 seconds. Most sportbikes will also easily surpass
120 miles per hour, which is the limit for most police cruisers.

Bikes have superior maneuverability compared to cars. A sportbike can turn better and
simply fit more places than a car. You just don't need the room a car needs. This
makes it possible to slip out of the car's grasp quite easily.

Motorcycles generally have better brakes than police vehicles. These come in handy
because for every acceleration, there is an equal and sometimes more urgent
deceleration.

Using straight-line quickness, you can increase the distance between you and the
police.
Using superior braking, turning, and acceleration, you can evade the police on streets
where straight-line speed is not helpful.


Part Nine: Know The Enemy

If you have one police officer in a slow car, your chances are pretty good. A police
officer in a fast car will make this whole escapade more difficult. Some jurisdictions in
the US use 5.7L Camaros with a 160+ mph top speed. A county in far West Texas has
a 180+ mile per hour Corvette ZR-1 seized from drug dealers that they use for pursuit,
I'm told.

Police on motorcycles are slightly different. Even if they are on Kawasaki or Harley
police
bikes, they are still on machinery superior to their caged brethren and can surprise you.

Helicopters will catch you. (Until the Busa)


Part Ten: Abort! Abort! Abort!

Some times, luck will be against you and you will be in danger of getting caught. What
now?

Just Stop and Take Your Punishment Like a Man- Yeah, right. Keep going until you can
go no more. You're already up a creek, why stop now?

Bail off- This is not recommended at speed or in close proximity to the police. If you
have been running for any length of time, there are probably more of them than there
are of you, making their part of the whole deal quite easy. Also, if you are the least out
of shape, you can bet at least one of them runs marathons.

But wait!

Bail off, and report the thing STOLEN!- If you are in the clear, park the bike
somewhere, go in a mall, go in a bookstore, whatever. Call a cab, go somewhere near
the beginning of the pursuit, stash your riding gear (if any) and report your bike stolen.
It may work. If the cops get your plate and beat you to your own house, you're
screwed. If you are not able to change your description at all (as you wouldn't be able
to if you weren't wearing any gear), you're screwed.

Whatever you do, don't bail off and go home. Lay low. You'll probably get your bike
back if you succeed.

Part Ten: DISCLAIMER

Look, folks, I gave run from cops before. I have gotten on it on the highway and
disappeared. I have run in the boonies. I have run in residential areas. I have never
gotten caught. As a matter of fact, I have no tickets and no accidents on my record. I
even have a safe driver discount. Just because I have done it in the past and gotten
away with it means diddly-squat. You WILL NOT be so lucky forever. If you run from
the law, you are an IDIOT. You are taking a risk of ruining your life and I will have no
part of it. I was just sitting here with a laptop drinking coffee and being bored when I
wrote this; it means nothing. I accept absolutely NO responsibility for anything,
anywhere, at any time. Don't be stupid.


THIS GUIDE REALLY TEACHES YOU NOTHING.

Coming Soon! The Guide to Proper Emergency Room Etiquette and Guide to Picking up
E.R. Nurses

 

[OB_crazy bill]

ok , thanks dad !!

geeze....

 

[OB_Velociraptor]

Kawabuser-Nice post despite the disclaimer. On any sportbike the temptation is great, and on the Busa it is almost unbearable. I have never ridden a motorcycle that does such speed in so little time that it truly feels like the dream of riding a race bike on the street(except the Busa is a lot easier to ride). The answer to the problem for me was going to the track. Great pavement, controlled conditions, no cars, no cops, and tons of fun. And no BS about heroic exploits doing this or that stupid thing on the street. I have toyed with minor engine mods for my bike but ended up rejecting that. I don't care about drag racing so no reason because of that-and for fun days on the track the stock motor is plenty potent. Trying to go fast on streets is so SLOW and so DANGEROUS compared to the track that IT IS NOT WORTH IT. As for street racing to show who is fastest on Friday night...WHO CARES???

A question....were the Busa related deaths higher than deaths on other sport bikes???

 

[OB_Dirty Pete]

Road kill always go way up on holiday weekends for all kinds of obvious reasons. I try to keep myself and my family off the roads then...especially during the "idiot hours."

KawAbuser were'd you get that figure of 18 Hayabusa road kills? Not that I doubt it but it would be interesting and possibly quite useful to be able to get road kill numbers by make, model and year.

For instance, if 1997 Toyota Corollas killed 2,200 people last year then you could buy one for your ex wife

[This message has been edited by Dirty Pete (edited 30 November 1999).]

 

[OB_KawAbuser]

The figures were told to me by a prominent industry figure who heard the information at the Milan Show and could not *remember* who told him, but this information was tossed in to a conversation we were having about the liscensing practices used in the UK vs US.

In the UK you have to progress up in displacement with your time spent on the road as compared to the US where if you have enough money you can buy anything you like.

 

[OB_rdalmau]

KawAbuser,

A death rate of 18 per 2800 vehicles in the USA is astronomically above the total traffic average. I believe a recent figure in the USA for all traffic (including motorcycles) was 1.58 deaths per 100 million miles. If you do some quick calculations: lets say the average Busa is riden 10,000 (that is being optimistic) miles per year - that would 40.7 times higher than the national average. More realistically, the average Busa miles is probable closer to 5,000 - that would be over 80 times higher !!!

RD

 

[OB_KawAbuser]

I explained how I recieved the info, I also wish I could just ask for myself the source for the figures on paper. At least nobody got pissed at each other on this thread.

The Hayabusa is a large caliber bullet, that we will all agree on I am sure. I just hope nobody takes themselves out trying to prove it to a cop over a traffic violation and ends up a total loser.

I also this info a few hours before FalconCops post and it made me think of what I just heard. I guess there are no insurance agents on this site, to dig up the numbers.

 

[OB_Dirty Pete]

I also truly truly hope nobody who "knows" each other through this site kaks* on their bike or in their cage in the next little while.

But I know that if the group hangs for a year more, it IS going to happen.

I just hope it happens to...let's see...

HAHAHAHAHA!!!!!!!!!!!

*How do you spell "kak" anyway?

 

[Guest]

Kaw & FC161 you certainly did give us food for thought. I read recently that bikes in general have an accident rate that is 10 times worse than cars (NTSB '97 data). That makes sense intuitively. Busa's 80 times cars doesn't feel right (assuming 5k miles/year).

Who knows of other fatal busa crashes?

I will call the NTSB and report.
FC161 can you do a lookup using NJ data?

[This message has been edited by Lyle (edited 01 December 1999).]

 

[OB_Konrad]

Good God [aka James Brown] DP
I hope I don't injure my kak on my
bike though I almost froze it off riding
yesterday.
I have read that if you factor out
booze, riding at night, under 25, that the
accident rate is five times that of cars.
[

[This message has been edited by Konrad (edited 01 December 1999).]

 

[OB_Cisco San Jose]

Number of death for Hayabusa are just numbers.How the riders died would be another story,lost control,bike break down,bad tires,bad judgement by rider,cars/truck turning in front of rider,and so on.My dad always told me figures can lie and liars can figure,I'm not saying that the 15 who died is false but to get the real story on how they died would be a better gadge on death verses motorcycle accidents.The insurance company or political person can twist any figure and distort the truth.We will all die one day and hopefully not on our bike by some stupid cage driver or another stupid motorcycle rider or even worse yet by our own stupid judgement.