Volkswagen and Porsche

[Bumblebee]

Hitler was a protagonist in the advancement of rocketry and weaponry, an advocate of conservation and even the practice of child support started during the Hitler years. Should we link those to evil as well? It's the whole of a man that is judged, and that is why we don't have statues or monuments celebrating him. What bothers me about the point you tried to make is I feel it makes light of people not wanting racists celebrated by those same statues and monuments.

Edit: I'm not implying that was your intent

The Volkswagen Beetle is basically a rolling monument to the nazi movement...the actual vehicle itself was designed and promoted by them and the almost exact same vehicle lived on for decades....

Nope, not promoting racism, just pointing out that what is to be celebrated and convicted is very open to interpretation of those who are judging and they seem to have blinders on when it suits them and often times are uneducated in their plight to establish what they are protesting and why.

As for rocketry and weaponry, the nazis that worked on the U2 programmed were captured and brought to the US to continue their work and were revered, so much so that buildings and streets were named after them....one could only hope they denounced their nazi roots.

 

[Red05]

The Volkswagen Beetle is basically a rolling monument to the nazi movement...the actual vehicle itself was designed and promoted by them and the almost exact same vehicle lived on for decades....

Now you're the one missing the point. The bug is not a monument to the nazi movement. It's a monument to the fact that Hitler wanted a dependable, affordable car for German people. You can't simply attach evil to all of Hitler's achievements. It doesn't work that way.

 

[Bumblebee]

Now you're the one missing the point. The bug is not a monument to the nazi movement. It's a monument to the fact that Hitler wanted a dependable, affordable car for German people. You can't simply attach evil to all of Hitler's achievements. It doesn't work that way.

I disagree.....

Your view of what the point is and mine obviously differ and I believe it is you that is missing the point and the whole purpose of what I'm saying....

....and I guess we will leave it at that.....

 

[jellyrug]

The Volkswagen Beetle is basically a rolling monument to the nazi movement...the actual vehicle itself was designed and promoted by them and the almost exact same vehicle lived on for decades....

Nope, not promoting racism, just pointing out that what is to be celebrated and convicted is very open to interpretation of those who are judging and they seem to have blinders on when it suits them and often times are uneducated in their plight to establish what they are protesting and why.

As for rocketry and weaponry, the nazis that worked on the U2 programmed were captured and brought to the US to continue their work and were revered, so much so that buildings and streets were named after them....one could only hope they denounced their nazi roots.

Copy and Paste:

The Quandt family are the heirs of the BMW fortune, which has made them the richest family in Germany. Together, siblings Stefan Quandt and Susanne Klatten own more than 40% of BMW and are worth about $38 billion.

Their grandfather, Günther Quandt, was close to Hitler and used labor from concentration camps in his factories. Their father, Herbert Quandt, was a member of the Nazi Party and has been accused of committing war crimes.

A spokesman for the Quandt family told NPR the family had been transparent about its Nazi past as well as its past involvement with forced labor, and had donated millions to commemorate the fate of forced laborers from World War II.

 

[jellyrug]

I disagree.....

Your view of what the point is and mine obviously differ and I believe it is you that is missing the point and the whole purpose of what I'm saying....

....and I guess we will leave it at that.....

The bug was still alive until 2019.

Does that mean you will never ride in a VW?

 

[jellyrug]

^^^^
Another copy and paste

Daimler-Benz also used forced labourers. These prisoners of war, abducted civilians and detainees from concentration camps were housed close to the plants. Forced labourers from western Europe lived in guest houses, private accommodation or schools.

Workers from eastern Europe and prisoners of war were interned in barrack camps with poor, prison-like conditions. Concentration camp detainees were monitored by the SS under inhumane conditions. They were “loaned out” to companies in exchange for money. In 1944, almost half of Daimler Benz’s 63,610 Daimler Benz employees were civilian forced labourers, prisoners of war or concentration camp detainees.

 

[Bumblebee]

Copy and Paste:

The Quandt family are the heirs of the BMW fortune, which has made them the richest family in Germany. Together, siblings Stefan Quandt and Susanne Klatten own more than 40% of BMW and are worth about $38 billion.

Their grandfather, Günther Quandt, was close to Hitler and used labor from concentration camps in his factories. Their father, Herbert Quandt, was a member of the Nazi Party and has been accused of committing war crimes.

A spokesman for the Quandt family told NPR the family had been transparent about its Nazi past as well as its past involvement with forced labor, and had donated millions to commemorate the fate of forced laborers from World War II.

What Volkswagen has become is not the point I'm making.....

The point I'm making is the Volkswagen Beetle or Type 1 which was specifically designed and made to the specifications outlined by Hitler and the nazi party....a vehicle that survived all persecution and even embraced by the masses....it went into production as a civilian car in 1945 and other than some chrome was the same car Hitler drove around in.....kind of ironic.

All that is fine, the point I'm making is people have short memories, protesters will destroy works of art, statues and other monuments in the quest to cancel out anything they deem to be offensive yet a car designed and promoted by arguably the most evil organization to come to power is loved....

Luxury Lineage: A Brief History of the Volkswagen Beetle

Tracing the long and winding road of the beloved Volkswagen Beetle, which is being discontinued in 2019 after 80 years.

www.forbes.com

 

[Bumblebee]

The bug was still alive until 2019.

Does that mean you will never ride in a VW?

See above.

 

[Bumblebee]

^^^^
Another copy and paste

Daimler-Benz also used forced labourers. These prisoners of war, abducted civilians and detainees from concentration camps were housed close to the plants. Forced labourers from western Europe lived in guest houses, private accommodation or schools.

Workers from eastern Europe and prisoners of war were interned in barrack camps with poor, prison-like conditions. Concentration camp detainees were monitored by the SS under inhumane conditions. They were “loaned out” to companies in exchange for money. In 1944, almost half of Daimler Benz’s 63,610 Daimler Benz employees were civilian forced labourers, prisoners of war or concentration camp detainees.

I'm referring to a specific vehicle, not a company, we can dredge up lots of German/Japanese companies that built war materials and arms-I'm talking about one specific car-the Beetle itself.

It's ironic that this particular vehicle survived almost completely intact after the war considering how it came to be in the first place.....

This was the entire premise to my thread...

I personally like German made vehicles and the Bug is a great little car.....it's just ironic is all.

 

[Red05]

I disagree.....

Your view of what the point is and mine obviously differ and I believe it is you that is missing the point and the whole purpose of what I'm saying....

....and I guess we will leave it at that.....

Your point is simple; that since Hitler was behind the innovation of the Bug why doesn't society cancel it out like other brands? First of all, it's not brands, it's people and ideologies. Mainly racist people and ideals. Secondly, because it's not an evil thing, designing an affordable car that is dependable. The idea did start with an evil man, but let's not forget how many good things were brought into this world by evil men.
I'll bet you're ready to leave it at that as you say, because otherwise you'd have to actually admit maybe you're wrong.
You're so stubborn, I'd like to add the 8th wonder of the world, that your wife hasn't killed you yet

 

[Bumblebee]

Your point is simple; that since Hitler was behind the innovation of the Bug why doesn't society cancel it out like other brands? First of all, it's not brands, it's people and ideologies. Mainly racist people and ideals. Secondly, because it's not an evil thing, designing an affordable car that is dependable. The idea did start with an evil man, but let's not forget how many good things were brought into this world by evil men.
I'll bet you're ready to leave it at that as you say, because otherwise you'd have to actually admit maybe you're wrong.
You're so stubborn, I'd like to add the 8th wonder of the world, that your wife hasn't killed you yet

I'll guarantee that if the western people saw a picture of Hitler smiling and giggling while driving around his convertible Bug, they'd probably not be so fast to adopt it....

If this were done in today's clime, I would wager nobody would buy one.

I'm not saying Volkswagen should be cancelled , I'm just surprised a vehicle like the Bug wasn't.

Am I wrong? Just because you and I differ on our opinion doesn't automatically make my opinion wrong.

 

[jellyrug]

I'll guarantee that if the western people saw a picture of Hitler smiling and giggling while driving around his convertible Bug, they'd probably not be so fast to adopt it....

If this were done in today's clime, I would wager nobody would buy one.

I'm not saying Volkswagen should be cancelled , I'm just surprised a vehicle like the Bug wasn't.

Am I wrong? Just because you and I differ on our opinion doesn't automatically make my opinion wrong.

Time for the weather to improve, so that folks can debate stuff that matters, like how to get the Busa ready for it’s first ride after winter.

BTW, we have a bunch of Canadians every year this time in NC where I ride to train on their bicycles. They tend to disappear end March. They stick together, not to keen to have others join their rides. I use to have fun dropping them off my back wheel, but getting a bit too old for that.

 

[jellyrug]

Now you're the one missing the point. The bug is not a monument to the nazi movement. It's a monument to the fact that Hitler wanted a dependable, affordable car for German people. You can't simply attach evil to all of Hitler's achievements. It doesn't work that way.

Just confirming, with a direct translation:

“Volks” = All the citizens of a specific country, referenced from within the country.

“Wagen” = Wagon, something which provides transport on four wheels.

 

[Red05]

Am I wrong? Just because you and I differ on our opinion doesn't automatically make my opinion wrong.

Uhh, yeah it does

 

[WuzzaCBXRider]

Time for the weather to improve, so that folks can debate stuff that matters, like how to get the Busa ready for it’s first ride after winter.

BTW, we have a bunch of Canadians every year this time in NC where I ride to train on their bicycles. They tend to disappear end March. They stick together, not to keen to have others join their rides. I use to have fun dropping them off my back wheel, but getting a bit too old for that.

What does ‘dropping them off my back wheel’ mean?

 

[michael parris heuberger]

Just confirming, with a direct translation:

“Volks” = All the citizens of a specific country, referenced from within the country.

“Wagen” = Wagon, something which provides transport on four wheels.

Hi. I am for canceling everthing. So there. And all for no reason!

 

[Red05]

What does ‘dropping them off my back wheel’ mean?

Leaving them behind. Cyclist talk lol.

 

[Bumblebee]

Uhh, yeah it does

Now you sound like my wife.....

 

[jellyrug]

What does ‘dropping them off my back wheel’ mean?

In cycling, an average pro level rider can put out around 350 watts for an hour.

So if a pro is doing 350 watts, and I ride right behind him, my front wheel about 3” off his back tire, I can stay there with only putting out around 250 watts.

It follows that he his going as hard as he can, while I am resting a little, as I am not using all my energy.

If I time it right, wait for him to get tired, I will go past him, he will try and catch my slip stream, because I am recovered, I will be able to do around 450 watts for a few minutes, he will lose my slip stream and I will leave him behind. Means I rode him off my back wheel.

 

[Bumblebee]

Time for the weather to improve, so that folks can debate stuff that matters, like how to get the Busa ready for it’s first ride after winter.

Well, this thread made a few of us think for a few minutes so it wasn't a total waste of time.....

But yes, we are in the middle of winter here and I don't figure to be out riding for at least 2 or so months yet....