Who knows stopping distance from 150 mph?

The braking distance (in feet) of a car going V mph is given by
d%28v%29=v%5E2%2F20%2Bv v is greater or equal to 0.
how fast would the car have been traveling for a braking distance of 150feet?
round to nearest mile per hour.
:
Write it:
v%5E2%2F20%2Bv = 150
multiply by 20, results
v^2 + 20v = 20(150)
:
v^2 + 20v = 3000
:
v^2 + 20v - 3000 = 0
Solve for v using the quadratic formula
x+=+%28-b+%2B-+sqrt%28+b%5E2-4%2Aa%2Ac+%29%29%2F%282%2Aa%29+

in this equation; x=v; a=1; b=20; c= -3000
v+=+%28-20+%2B-+sqrt%2820%5E2-4%2A1%2A-3000+%29%29%2F%282%2A1%29+
:
v+=+%28-20+%2B-+sqrt%28400-%28-12000%29+%29%29%2F2+
:
v+=+%28-20+%2B-+sqrt%2812400+%29%29%2F2+
Two solutions, we only want the positive solution
v+=+%28-20+%2B+111.355%29%2F2+
v = 91.355%2F2
v = 45.68 mph for a stopping distance of 150 ft
:
:
See if that flies in the original equation
d%28v%29=45.68%5E2%2F20%2B45.68
d%28v%29=2086.45%2F20%2B45.68
d%28v%29=104.32%2B45.68
d(v) = 150.00, confirms our solution

The 3rd line from the bottom devided by the second line from the top added to the 5th line from the bottom when read backwards is Tuf's "official" final answer! :rofl:

You didn't start the post with this aint bs so I'm guessing it is :rofl:
 
Some LSR guys could lend some experience. I remember Bill Warner running out of room. He was hauling it down from around 280.


 
Ain't no BS, just a little donky doo doo! :laugh:


Thing about LSR on a long track, (and I can not speak for Bill's speeds) from 200+ to 170 the wind resistance almost immediately slows your speed with even slight braking force. Below 170 the brakes are put to work much more.

At any rate, on a long track with plenty of room at a "normal" 200 mph speed it seems to slow extremely quick...but I have no idea the ft measurement. A few 200+ riders took the first pull off at Maxton and that was a tight squeeze from those speeds.

Anyone know the distance from the time traps to the first pull off at Maxton? Might give a good starting point, at least from around a 190-200mph speed.
 
Glazing has nothing to do with the ROTOR melting...

You gonna have to take it up with EBC tech department. I spent 40 min on the phone with EBC discussing in details as to what happened to my HH pads a while back. Everything I was told made a lot of sense, not to mention it was coming straight from EBC. I was doing exactly what this thread is discussing - which resulted in exactly what I described.

Sticking to the facts and logical analysis always beats the generalized and sometimes simplistic internet knowledge... or one-liners for that matter. I could elaborate more if anyone is interested.
 
How did I miss that?

I'd advise everyone to not try to stop from 150 to zero as quickly as possible in one braking attempt. There is a good chance the very top thin layer of the rotors will melt momentarily, and the melted metal will be deposited on your brake pads. This is called glazing of brake pads. As a result of that, next time you brake, it will be partial metal against your rotors instead of 100% brake pad material against your rotors. I can tell you firsthand that metal on metal does not brake well, and don't ask me how I know.

No one stops from 150 to zero as quickly as possible, however 150 to let's say 70 is a very real life scenario. It takes more distance than it seems because the kinetic energy the brakes need to burn is proportional to the square of the speed, however the actual burning off of kinetic energy is proportional to the speed and braking effort - not to the square of anything. In all the practicality knowing the distance in ft doesn't help, but looking pretty far ahead and applying the brakes as early as possible is paramount. The good thing about braking from such high speed is that a lot of braking effort could be applied to the lever without locking the front - it's when the bike slows down that the danger of locking the front is greater and therefore the braking effort should be gradually reduced.

Your opening sentence says everything about this post. By your own admission you have zero experience at stopping from a buck fifty but you present yourself as an authority on the subject. EBC did not give you a barnyard BS story like that.

Your ability to manage braking is no better than your ability to manage tires! Both are poor at best. Posting youropinions are fine but you should not be advising anyone on "How to" when it comes to motorcycle/rider performance!
 
You gonna have to take it up with EBC tech department. I spent 40 min on the phone with EBC discussing in details as to what happened to my HH pads a while back. Everything I was told made a lot of sense, not to mention it was coming straight from EBC. I was doing exactly what this thread is discussing - which resulted in exactly what I described.

Sticking to the facts and logical analysis always beats the generalized and sometimes simplistic internet knowledge... or one-liners for that matter. I could elaborate more if anyone is interested.

I'd really like to hear what EBC has to say about that...so please do elaborate.
 
Your opening sentence says everything about this post. By your own admission you have zero experience at stopping from a buck fifty but you present yourself as an authority on the subject. EBC did not give you a barnyard BS story like that.

Your ability to manage braking is no better than your ability to manage tires! Both are poor at best. Posting youropinions are fine but you should not be advising anyone on "How to" when it comes to motorcycle/rider performance!

I haven't heard anything of substance from you Tuff on how to stop for 150 to zero, nor did I hear from you anything of substance on how to manage tires. I am coming to a simple conclusion that your knowledge in this are is absent. You may have a good hands-on experience, but are unable to offer anything of substance. BTW, I know a number of track coaches and the length they go to when someone asks a question online - they would elaborate and explain until a person who asks is satisfied. BTW, they never claim to be experts, but simply explain and answer questions no matter how "stupid" they may seem.

I will explain below what you call such a BS, and I challenge anyone to provide a coherent explanation of their own.
 
I'd really like to hear what EBC has to say about that...so please do elaborate.

When you brake aggressively from really high speed to really low speed, as in 150 to zero, a significant amount of heat is being generated. As was pointed out, the kinetic energy you are trying to convert into heat is proportional to the square of the speed. The heat is generated at the point of contact - where the brake pad meets the rotor. Most of the generated heat is absorbed by the rotors, and they in turn transfer the heat to the air. Some of the heat gets transferred to the pads, then to the calipers, and then to the air. The rotor's ability to absorb a certain amount of heat greatly depends on its thickness. IIRC, a new rotor has thickness of 5.00 mm, but over time it gets thinner as it is being worn off by the pads. I think the official limit is 4.50 mm. Even being slightly thinner, let's say 4.85 mm, such rotor will perform just fine in terms of slowing the bike down. However, its ability to immediately absorb heat from really aggressive and prolonged braking is noticeably reduced. While the new rotor with 5.00 mm thickness could probably handle 150 to 0 quick stop, but barely - the thinner rotor is not able to quickly absorb the same amount of heat, thus causing the contact area temperature to rise momentarily to above the melting point. It may last 0.01 sec, but this is enough to melt a tiny layer of the rotor and only in one spot. Because the rotor is moving, such melting creates a streak which can be observed with a naked eye as a barely noticeable grove.

Go to your bike and carefully look at your rotors, guys and girls, and see whether your rotors are smooth and uniformed or have light streaks - like someone carved a channel with a diamond when the wheel was rotating. Most likely there are some streaks present. You may think that it could be the result of debris getting between the pad and the rotors, but it's not. Those are the signs of a melted rotor. You probably didn't pay attention, didn't inspect your pads, and simply were lucky to get away with it. Maybe because the extent of the melting was very little.

And while you are at it, why don't you measure the thickness of your rotors with a micrometer and report back. I'd be curious to know the thickness of your rotors and how many miles and track days it has.

I also would be curious to know how often MotoGP guys or other racers change their rotors.

Here is a shot of how the melted rotor material deposited itself on my pads. Notice that those are not just polished looking spots on the pads - they have silverfish looking color.

100_2377.jpg


As you can see, substantial area of every pad was damaged in this way, thus greatly reducing the stopping power of the pads.

More commonly known glazing of brake pads occurs when only the brake pad material is affected. The consequence of that is not as severe because it's still a brake pad material against steel rotors, and not partially steel and partially brake pad material against steel rotors.

I know exactly what to do if your pads are glazed - if anyone cares to know.

BTW, for all my troubles, EBC sent me a set of HH pads (4) and a set of HH PRO pads (4) for free. Both sets have been used up, and I was not impressed with the PRO set - it was incrementally better stopping power than regular HH pads, and incrementally better feel than HH pads - and almost double the price of HH pads.

And speaking about pads, one of the coaches recommended to use Vesrah JL pads (JL is analogous with HH, and RJL is analogous to HH PRO), and I can tell you that even JL pads provide better stopping power then HH pads, and provide better feel than HH PRO pads. I could consistently make the rear wiggle under extreme braking - which never happened with EBC pads. The only issue I noticed with Vesrah pads was that they perform poorly when cold - and I mean completely cold, not even warm.
 
Please proceed.

Yes, Sir...

Get 200-400 grit sandpaper, put it on a really flat and smooth surface. Take one pad at a time from the calipers, and rub it against the sandpaper in a variable motion (i.e. alternating circular and back-and-forth ) until you get rid of the spots and get a uniformed surface. Put the pad back in the caliper, and do the same for every pad. Go ride and break-in the pads as if they are new, i.e. following the break-in procedure. After the break-in process, pull the pads one at a time, and inspect. When the entire surface of the pads mated to the rotors, brake as hard as you want.

Periodically, pull the pads and inspect them for glazing, and uneven wear. I would also inspect the pads after every track day, and after every long ride with lots of braking involved. Repeat the entire process above any time you discover any type of pad glazing - no need to buy new pads unless they are worn out.

The reason to do one pad at a time is to make sure every pad goes back in the same place where it came from.
 
I share your experience with Vesrah pads over EBC (extreme pros); I found I like the Vesrah pad better on my track bike (exclusively track).
 
I haven't heard anything of substance from you Tuff on how to stop for 150 to zero, nor did I hear from you anything of substance on how to manage tires. I am coming to a simple conclusion that your knowledge in this are is absent. You may have a good hands-on experience, but are unable to offer anything of substance. BTW, I know a number of track coaches and the length they go to when someone asks a question online - they would elaborate and explain until a person who asks is satisfied. BTW, they never claim to be experts, but simply explain and answer questions no matter how "stupid" they may seem.

I will explain below what you call such a BS, and I challenge anyone to provide a coherent explanation of their own.

I'm not sure what EBC told you but my guess is what you heard and what they told you may be two different things. I have never heard of the rotor material melting into the pads. Not saying it's impossible, just sounds odd to me. I have always been of the idea that pad material imbeds itself into the rotors which makes it necessary to bead blast the rotors on a regular basis. As I understand how glazing works is when a pad is heated beyond its temperature range the pad material actually crystalizes a thin layer of pad material on the surface.

However, I wanted to give you the benefit of the doubt so I searched Galfer & EBC website and found nothing to substantiate your claim. Galfer did mention that pad material would embed itself into the rotors and needed to be cleaned before installing new pads. I googled "Brake Glazing" and found info on the following websites "tirerack.com - raceshopper.com - topbrakes.com". This is what "tirerack.com" had to say about glazing which mirrors what the other two had to say as well:

When brake pad compounds are overheated, the components crystallize on the surface as the resins and binders begin to melt and break down. This crystallized surface has a lower friction coefficient that simply means it cannot grab the surface of the rotor with the same amount of force as the undamaged pad. The term glazed is used because the pad surface will look smooth, shiny, and metallic like a glazed ceramic tile. Once a pad has been glazed, it cannot be repaired and it needs to be replaced. Glazing is caused by overheating the brakes beyond the operating temperature designed for the pad and/or failure to follow the bed-in procedure for the pads. This type of damage is not a defect in the pad and is not covered under the manufacturer warranty

I can't say if these sources are correct or incorrect or how they arrived at their conclusion. I could find nothing about the rotor material having anything to do with pad glazing. You may be more successful. If so please share your source.

And I might remind you that it was you who took this thread off on a wild tangent about kinetic energy and proportional square of speed blah, blah, blah which ended up being a whole lot of nothing. The question was Stopping distance from 150 mph. If you have an answer that don't include a warning, please share.
 
Tuf, I applaud you to finally expand on something, and articulating it really well! No sarcasm. Your quick Internet search proves one point - that sometimes the fine points of know-how simply aren't there. Most brake pad glazing occurs exactly as you copied/pasted from the Internet. However, take it up a notch - like trying to stop from 150 to zero as quickly as possible - and even more heat is being produced - enough to momentarily melt a small point on a rotor. I was unfortunate enough to sometimes execute such aggressive stopping, which resulted in the meltdown, which I neglected to check and notice, which in turn resulted in brake failure on one sunny day. I can assure you there was no miscommunication with EBC. They saw many pictures of my pads including the ones I posted, and that's what their conclusion was. it's a sudden and prolonged braking. My rotors were 4.65 mm thick. It probably wouldn't have happened with new rotors at 5.00 mm thick.

You can't really say blah-blah about the kinetic energy proportional to the square of the speed because that's what is responsible for producing so much heat. My warning for everyone to not try such a braking maneuver is very well intentioned - this is to avoid the problem I described. Failure of the brakes is no fun - I can attest to that. I am guessing that most riders don't have brand new rotors, and therefore their thickness is less than 5.00 mm.

Your original question is right on point in spirit, but really is less important in terms of exact numbers. As was mentioned by someone, there are so many variables. Since you are so insistent on the number, I will make an estimate based on my own experience. I'd say 130 yards to drop from 150 to 80, and maybe another 100 yards to a full stop. So, my rough estimate would be 230 yards - probably a little less. I also want to point out that turbo bikes slow down noticeably quicker at first because of more significant engine braking. Engine braking is stronger than the rear brake right after closing the throttle.

And again, kinetic energy being proportional to the square of the speed, blah-blah, is the main reason a bike just wouldn't slow down as quickly at high speed. Just can't ignore that. If we consider the same bike/rider at 50, 100, and 150 - at 100 the bike carries 4 times more kinetic energy than at 50, which needs to be converted into heat. At 150, the bike carries 9 times more kinetic energy than at 50. This explains why so much more heat is being generated, contributing to the possibility of momentarily melting a small portion of the rotors.
 
I have a feeling that the original purpose of this thread has been lost in a math lesson; we are not seeing the sun because of the trees...

I think the real point trying to be made is this: There is a lot of talk given to going 150, but ZERO talk about getting OUT of 150. It takes a lot more skill to SLOW DOWN than it does to speed up; so how many riders who are bragging about going 150 (except maybe track riders, racers or drag guys) ever stopped to consider that they might want to practice the much more valuable, life-saving skill of a emergency braking proceedure from ANY speed UP to and including 150? In other words, make sure you can SLOW DOWN from 80 before you go to 90, slow down from 90 before you go 100, etc., etc.

I personally know I gave LITTLE thought to how I was going to SLOW DOWN from a high speed, until I did my first trackday and ran off the track because I didn't now how to BRAKE...Might save a rider's life one day....

And Jay and Charlie can STILL consistently outbrake me... :banghead:
 
I have a feeling that the original purpose of this thread has been lost in a math lesson; we are not seeing the sun because of the trees...

I think the real point trying to be made is this: There is a lot of talk given to going 150, but ZERO talk about getting OUT of 150. It takes a lot more skill to SLOW DOWN than it does to speed up; so how many riders who are bragging about going 150 (except maybe track riders, racers or drag guys) ever stopped to consider that they might want to practice the much more valuable, life-saving skill of a emergency braking proceedure from ANY speed UP to and including 150? In other words, make sure you can SLOW DOWN from 80 before you go to 90, slow down from 90 before you go 100, etc., etc.

I personally know I gave LITTLE thought to how I was going to SLOW DOWN from a high speed, until I did my first trackday and ran off the track because I didn't now how to BRAKE...Might save a rider's life one day....

And Jay and Charlie can STILL consistently outbrake me... :banghead:

Why could that have not been explained better in the first couple posts, at least somewhere on the first page?

vvvv SIG vvvv
 
IG:

I wasn't questioning your ability to crunch numbers. I was totally shocked that anyone would make such a statement suggesting no one should ever brake from high speed to a complete stop. That's what instigated me to respond. I could have cared less about your mathematical equations on generating heat which had absolutely nothing to do with the question at hand. I could not believe you were serious thus my funny one liner. Everyone (Including you) should practice emergency stops from whatever speed they choose.

Just for sh*tz I called EBC this morning and ask for their technical department. I was transferred to Brendan who without hesitation, had all the answers to the questions I ask. He explained glazing almost to the letter as did the websites in my previous post. I ask if transferred metal from the rotors would play any part in the glazing process and his answer was simple, "NO"! I followed up with "Are you sure" and his response was "Absolutely"!

Skydivr is correct. This thread was intended to see how many folks actually had some idea of the distance it takes to burn off speed. There seems to be lots of members who are 150+ guys but thus far not one of them have had an answer to the question "Distance to burn that speed off". Even you with some track experience seems to be baffled and it's not about heat transfer, kinetic energy, glazed pads & rotor thickness.

Don't take what I have to say personally.
 
Why could that have not been explained better in the first couple posts, at least somewhere on the first page?

vvvv SIG vvvv

Let me answer that question:

You will never see me post up a question and give the answer. I post the question to get you to engage. Only when the thread begins to loose interest will I discuss "MY VIEW". The best way to learn is to have a discussion with your friends and most of the time someone other than the OP will have an answer, some good-some not. The only reason I engaged with IG was due to his opening line that was so incredibly wrong.
 
I have at tested out my 1k's speed. In places that i "knew" were safe. If anything got in my way I woulda been screwed. Most of the sudden braking I've had to do is in traffic, about 40-65mph. Anything other than that wasn't emergency to a stop, more like down to 65.

To me it seems to be to much to generalize. I agree everyone for their own safety should know what it takes to get out of trouble for themselves if the need arises. Seems rider size, weight, posture, tires, upgrades, and weather/temp would change everyone's answer to this question. But if for nothing else I agree this thread should at least make you think about the unexpected.

For me it feels like a mile when you have no choice but to grab a handful and that back tire starts to slide here and there. Never measured, or hit the brakes at 150.
 
I'm not 100% Sure the OP expected an answer, but wanted to evoke thought. If and when I go there I typically make sure I'm alone and that dangers are as low as possible. I hope we all do the risk analysis, but in the end we ride an amazing bike. I rarely if ever go there today. Basically been there enough and done it and don't need to again :laugh:
 
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