Winter Project - E85 Conversion for a 1397

icemansid

icemansid

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Background:
Full drag only Gen1 1397 13.5:1 JE pistons, lightened/balanced APE crank, Carpenter ported head w/ heavy cams (going to give Bob a call and verify cams next week), Hays slider.

Currently running Sunoco 260 GTX (93 motor octane). Upon seasonal tear down, i find out that the throttle bodies (bottom side) are sticky with green residue from the fuel, the pistons and head/valves are rusty looking. It cleans up but not real happy with the outcome.

Currently the fuel system is 100% stock BUT its on the schedule to get a full upgrade. Pump, rail, regulator, injectors.....

I want to convert to E85 because of the high octane and cooler burning fuel (for the stupid hot days here in South Dakota!) Plus I have access to straight ethanol from the ethanol plant.

I'm sure its been done but if anybody has as guidance that would be great. Research is telling me ~ 30% more fuel over my current setup. Knowing i need bigger injectors, i am at the process of tackling new fuel at the same time as new injectors...

Does anybody have any specific injectors they would recommend? Also using the ECU Editor/WRT to tune the ECU. Also have a PC5 and a PC3 (no, not at the same time)
 
E85 is readily available here in Florida and I'm interested in doing the same thing to my new busa. I also have a 2013 Mustang GT that runs on E85 with the only change in the fuel system being bigger injectors. The factory fuel system in the mustang is capable of running on E85 without any changes--is that the same for a brand new busa? E10 has been at the pumps for years and years now and the auto manufacturers are setup to handle the corrosive alcohol out of the box.

What is needed to run E85 in an otherwise stock busa?
 
I haven't done a stock engine e85 bike, only turbo bikes. Stock gen 2 injectors are good for 350ish hp, so they should be fine for e85.

E85 requires more volume. That being said higher static fuel pressure should be used. To do that though, you would need to run an external regulator, and since you would have to go that route, it would be the easiest to run an external fuel pump too.

In my opinion, on an otherwise stock bike you really wouldn't see any gains other then picking up just a few hp from being able to run it leaner due to the alcohol keeping combustion temps low. Otherwise e85 just has too much octane to be of any real benefit on a stock motor-other then being a renewable fuel source. You would pick up far more hp from a good tune as the bikes come VERY rich from the factory.
 
Murderedout07 said:
I haven't done a stock engine e85 bike, only turbo bikes. Stock gen 2 injectors are good for 350ish hp, so they should be fine for e85.

E85 requires more volume. That being said higher static fuel pressure should be used. To do that though, you would need to run an external regulator, and since you would have to go that route, it would be the easiest to run an external fuel pump too.

In my opinion, on an otherwise stock bike you really wouldn't see any gains other then picking up just a few hp from being able to run it leaner due to the alcohol keeping combustion temps low. Otherwise e85 just has too much octane to be of any real benefit on a stock motor-other then being a renewable fuel source. You would pick up far more hp from a good tune as the bikes come VERY rich from the factory.
Click to expand...

Interesting-I would have thought the knock threshold was reached on 93 octane long before the max output of the engine since the gen2s have such high compression. As such, I would have thought appreciable gains could be had with the cooler burning, 105 octane ethanol. Is that not the case?

I come from the car world where I tune for ~.82-.85 lambda on all-motor cars and generally see very limited gains leaning them out past that point.
 
Ultimately combustion chamber design is what determins octane needed, and then compression is factored in. The hayabusa combustion chambers are pretty efficient, allowing compression to be so high on the gen 2 from factory.

On 8psi we've seen as much as 15hp with nothing else changing except going over on e85. But that's boosted, so in a na application, I figure maybe 5hp on a bike that's already had a good gasoline tune. Hard to say as no one that I've seen has done E on a bone stock bike.

If it's something you would like to do, I can get you special pricing on a bolt in fuel system, with external pump.
 
Murderedout07 said:
Ultimately combustion chamber design is what determins octane needed, and then compression is factored in. The hayabusa combustion chambers are pretty efficient, allowing compression to be so high on the gen 2 from factory.

On 8psi we've seen as much as 15hp with nothing else changing except going over on e85. But that's boosted, so in a na application, I figure maybe 5hp on a bike that's already had a good gasoline tune. Hard to say as no one that I've seen has done E on a bone stock bike.

If it's something you would like to do, I can get you special pricing on a bolt in fuel system, with external pump.
Click to expand...

Sure, shoot me a PM.

Again, I come from the car world so 5whp in car terms is immaterial(but it all adds up and its what separates the fastest from the slowest) but isn't 5whp on a bike a substantial amount? Especially if the only change is the type of fuel burned? E85 is readily available here in Florida and it's what my mustang runs on exclusively(daily driver with ~7k miles on E85 so far)

OP, sorry for the hijack. I was literally just thinking this stuff over and saw your thread. Hope you don't mind
 
5whp is a very noticeable difference on a bike. I'm just guessing though. Could be 15, could be 2. It's uncharted territory in regards to stock na busas.

Pm sent.
 
One of my friends decided to go the E-85 route on a N/A 1441 Gen II. Did the bigger TB's, larger injectors, fuel pump, regulator, ECU editor dyno tune. Played with the tuning all over the place. Despite all the money he dropped I believe he actually lost hp or at the best broke even compared to before with ERC fuel. On the dyno they were using his bike was in the 230 range.
IMHO E-85 works great where you can use forced induction or if you go N/A you have to build the motor around it like the old USAC cars did.
 
Eventually I want to go boosted so the whole fuel system changeover is a must anyways. Project is progressing slowly. Walbro 255 pump, AN6 all around, and MPS 62lb injectors. I wanted to go with ID1000's but a sweet deal came up on these and they came with a wire harness already terminated so I couldn't say no.
 
icemansid said:
Who got banned? I hope not me!
Click to expand...
Your name is in black that means banned I thought. I darn sure couldn't figure out what happened. Maybe you can explain my error or contact an admin to get the color changed. Welcome back :laugh:
 
hmmm nope... not sure.. maybe it means my email notifications are f*cked up..... i dont get emails anymore.
 
LOL I know I'm bad at pictures but soon I promise. Bike chassis will come out of storage and get stripped down and motor assembly will begin. Tranny is back from Robinson. First and second got a little tune up. Crank is back from APE with a set of Wossners strapped on.


At the end of the season it was having troubles hitting 2nd gear so I swapped engines to finish the year. Upon inspection one of the rods was a a bit loose. Sent off to Jay for a closer look and come to find out the big ends were out of round on all of the rods. They were new OEM's only a year old. Sooo 1k$ later and we are back in business with a fresh set of rods. Kind of a setback but now it's done right.
 
Its getting very close. Was making great progress until "life happened". Our first child (a girl) Bentley Aurora was born on Tuesday this week. I have also been working on some new product research that I will hopefully get to share with everybody real soon as well.
 
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