ZX12 is alive and kicking

Vegas, you can bet that if the 12 came out before the release of the Busa, there would have been the hype. The pre-reports are no different than those of the Busa's talking about claimed horspower, track times, or speed. The difference is that there is now a truly competitive bike being released, a very satisfied and loyal group of Busa owners, and Kawasaki owners who have waited over three years for this release.

As far as dimension, yes, the new 12 is both narrower and lighter. It also makes a significant amount of more power. In the end, it makes for a bike that has better performance numbers. There is a price to be paid, though.

Todd, I have never been one to come on here and spew a bunch of garbage about the new 12. I am confident that I received some good information (power, top speed, 1/4 times, price, weight, etc.), but only time will tell. I have said all along, let's wait until the goods are delivered! I also feel like I am very realistic with what to expect. It's funny, if someone had told me before the release of the Busa that it would run 195 mph and 9.90 quarters I would have dismissed it. I just sit and wait now and take the info I hear for what it's worth.

Kevin
 
Let's not forget four things:

1. The Bus struggled seriously to go over 200mph, needing tailwind, very long straight, etc. The (roumored) similar figure for the 12 is 215mph.

2. Kawasaki may be quoting 184 horses, however with their kick-ass ramair I wouldn't be surprised if it proved to be 200hp+

3. The 12 was designed from the ground up to cut down on width (there's no frame in the way). The Bus is certainly aerodynamic, but it's wide.

4. The 12 is 195kg dry (OK, this is not official, either). It's not a ballet dancer, but it helps.

On the Bus side, people are reporting gains of 10hp + with simple airbox modifications. It the 1300 motor proves to be de-tuned and understressed, then a stock ZX12 might have trouble keeping up with lightly modified Buses. It's got more cc's as well.
I see interesting times ahead!
 
Todd, to ask that the 12 will better the Busa by the same margin as the Busa bettered the XX is unrealistic. The Busa stepped up the game to a point where we can only possibly see moderate gains from here. The 14 to 17 mph you speak of is far harder to attain from 195 to 210 mph than it was for the Busa at 180 to 195. Physics will tell you that! You would need 190 horsepower plus to run over 210 mph. Let's be realistic... that won't happen. It will up the ante, the individual will have to decide for themselves whether it was enough.

Kevin
 
Same track, same day, same temperature, same everything. This is the only thing that will convince me that the Kwaka is faster, and lets forget taking off mirrors and using tailwinds. If the ZX12R is faster than the Busa than 5mph then I would consider this just as big as the gain that the Busa had over the ZX and XX. I have heard a few knowledgable people mention exponential power levels needed for linear speed increases but some people just don't get it. I ride a ZX11 but the Busa does interest me greatly. I would almost consider a trade but I have just a few problems that worry me about the Busa:
1. Reliability - go read the manufacturing problem segment. I dont want my cam chain snapping, my motor stalling, overheating, clutch jamming.
2. Being associated with morons who can't ride and mention how they can do 9 second quarters and how they get to 200mph. This crap will happen with the ZX12 as well.
3. Putting up with "No one can beat Suzuki" and claims that it is the first stock bike in the nines - I have seen good riders take 9Rs into the high 9's.

I will make my decision about what to buy next year, hopefully when Suzuki sorts out reliability and Kawasaki releases a comfortable reliable blaster.
 
I'm with you Coops, still just a bit on the fence. I'm letting the first-year bugs get worked out, getting the finances in order for the purchase, holding out to see what the competition really has in hand before making the move.

I am making myself put up with a few more months of flogging the ol' GS1100, although I was at the local Suzi dealership last Saturday, and they had a copper 'Busa on the floor (with a YZF-R1 next to it, in fact). I wanted to take them both home, but I damn near wrote the check for the hold on the Bus. It's tough to wait when you are in love.

I really doubt I will want the ZX over the Busa. It would have to have a shitload of performance over the Busa for me to want it, and I don't see that. It will be back to the GPZ1100 and the GS1100E. Every time I look at the Hayabusa, it just looks better and better. But I want to know what the ZX will really do first, since the one I get will be the one I stay with for quite awhile.

I want to get the best deal on the machine I really want. I couldn't give a rat's ass about being the first one on my block to own the latest fad/lemon. The most satisfying thing is to have ridden my GS1100 75,000 miles in 16 years (in storage for three of those actually), and still have guys come up to me and ask if I am interested in selling it. My answer, as I am sure it will be with the 'Busa, is 'Thanks...but no thanks!'
 
coops, i have no problem seeing the tach or speedo no matter what position. And for the other poster on reliability go to www.hayabusa.org and look at the poll on having problems. At my last look it show over 55% had no problems 14. something % only had minor problems with 28% having major problems. I dont think that this too bad for the first year. My Bike has had no problems what so ever and i currently have 2800 miles on my bike. the zx11 had problems for the first couple of years (second Gear problems) but it was still a great bike............

[This message has been edited by VegasDude (edited 19 August 1999).]

[This message has been edited by VegasDude (edited 19 August 1999).]
 
The Kawasaki will be an out and out sport bike. I have no problem with full bore sportbikes beating my Busa. Factory production, racer, custom or otherwise.

But this isn't just about the ZX12...we've also got Honda and Norton looking at us.

Not to worry.

We've got 170 hp at the wheel (with airbox cut out and slip-ons) AND long distance highway comfort, 1 or 2-up.

The Busa is a made man.
 
I have to say that the Busa is a gorgeous bike. It and the R1 have to be the sexxiest bikes made right now and I hope the ZX-12 fits in that category when it arrives. But my loyalty lies under the horsepower and performance category. If the ZX-12 beats the Busa (by a decent margin) then I'll buy it, but if its like 3 mph and isn't as beautiful and charismatic as the Busa then a Suzuki I am. As for the Honda and Nemesis, you'll never see one because know one can afford them. Thats why you don't see piles of Blackbirds. Sure its a hell of a bike but its also overpriced. I'm a ZX-11 owner who's sunken more money into my bike than my retirement funds and I'm ready for another toy thats bigger and better. And I'm not going to have the "my bike is faster than your bike" arguement because its not a decent comparison. I've invested $23,000 into my bike but its a dinosaur soon to be extinct. I just hope Suzuki doesn't continue to have these rod knocking noises anymore otherwises I might be headed for Kawasaki again. I was hoping to become a Suzuki owner though. I've never had a Suzuki but had everything else.
 
Mr Bear : What are you looking for in a new motorcycle ie(twisties / touring / blasting etc)? Im after a bike that can cover long distances with good wind protection, smooth etc. All things being equal in both bikes, I think I would take the Kwaka, its just a loyalty thing. If the Zuke has the better ergonomics I would take the Zuke. I must admit the Busa's appearance is sort of growing on me but I did have a couple of bitches about certain things like the cheap looking exhaust outlets when viewed from the rear and the annoying problem of not being able to view the tach and speedo due to the windshield being too low. The general finish of the bike does look a lot better than I have seen on other Zukes. But as I mentionned before, I will wait and see.
 
Mr Bear: I echo your sentiments exactly.

One of the greatest rewards of owning a big bore bike with so much stock, warranteed power is that it will inevitably reward you with longevity.

That's because not even the most aggressive street drivers, and I consider myself to be one of those, uses full power for more than a small fraction of the time.

With 600s and other smaller displacement bikes, an aggressive rider stresses the engine for a much higher percentage of his riding hours. So smaller high performance motors just don't last as long on the street.

An excellent example: the GSXR1100 is an engine with lots of engineering headroom (love that phrase!), and yet produces gobs of power stock. And no litre engine has the bulletproof rep of that one.

I'm hoping, with some reasoning behind me, that the 1300 will earn the same rep.

By the way and for the record. I've pushed the crap out of my engine for 6,000 miles on the street and on the track and I've not had one problem of any kind, big or small.

Judging from all the posts about mechanical problems, my engine was made on a Tuesday.



[This message has been edited by Dirty Pete (edited 20 August 1999).]
 
Coops, I want the fastest, meanest bike made, that I will also be happy to be married to. That means riding it to work, taking a month to go on a 7,000 mile trip on it, spending a Saturday afternoon strafing some twisties, or tearing the lungs out of some sad-ass Porsche owner who doesn't know that he just bit off way more than he could chew.

That is the kind of riding I have done with my GS, the ancestor of the Busa. I am in So. Cal., so I can ride year-round (as if weather ever stopped me from riding when I lived in Seattle!), but I want a sport bike I can live on. My old Suzi has been like that and still is, but the Busa has 50 mph on it in the top end, not to mention all the other improvements. But I do it all on my sportbike...I even rode a thousand miles of dirt highways on a 6,500 mile trip to Alaska on my GS1100E in 1990...awesome trip.

You never know how a bike will be until you actually spend time on it on the road. Sitting on it in the showroom, even a test ride, won't show you the habits you will develop on it once the two of you live together. For example, I never had any use for a gear position indicator until I owned a bike with one, and realized I did things differently because of it.

Dirty Pete, you are absolutely right, the Busa is not only a made man, but has what can be called engineering headroom; a mildly-tuned 1300cc motor which responds very well to even modest hop-ups. My concern about bikes like sport 600's, ZX-11's or 12's, etc., is how highly-strung are they from the factory? Can you do any mods without sacrificing reliability or basically throwing money away? By all accounts, the Hayabusa seems pretty buildable (for anyone who wants to do so).

Finally Superman, I never have had any knocking noises in my GS1100 motor at all...bulletproof mill, as strong as the legendary Z-1. Any bugs found in the first-year production run, we can avoid by picking up a second-year unit. Suzuki makes good motors, as does Kawasaki. '99 or 2000 model, I'll be happy with the one I ride home.
 
I think the evidence shows that the Hayabusa is NOT a buggy bike for a first-year model. Dirty Pete, your experience is probably the rule, not the exception. The 'Busa is under the microscope for any mechanical glitches right now because it is new, and is a breakthrough performer.
 
Vegasdude : In reply to your previous post about the % of problems with Busas. 28% of Busa's having "Major problems" :( is not a small figure. 14% for small problems sounds nicer. This means that a Busa owner is more likely to have major problems rather than minor. All up a 42% of Busas have problems small or big. I think I'll wait until the quality control boys and girls and development people do some work before considering pushing a Busa.
 
Facing reality is not a strong point at this site Coops. why dont we just leave and return latter after the Kawaski does its thing then we can have loads of fun and get cursed and probably banned but who cares.
 
Also Ive learned that some of these guys like people to come here and post things that they talk trash about, they act like their pissed but they really like it and inreality would really be pissed if someone didnt feed it to them so they could rag on someones ass. They love it! Dont lie now.
 
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