Hot bike doesn't start

kevin567

kevin567

Registered
I ran into this problem yesterday after a 30 minute commute through the city (slow crawl 99% of the way), so the bike was quite hot (temp gauge was normal, but my legs were being cooked!). I went to park the bike on the street, so I normally turn it off first then back it in behind a car. I saw a better spot half a block down so I was going to move the bike. Well, I pressed the starter and ... crank (silence) crank (silence) crank (silence)... no firing of the cylinders. I figured it was too hot so I just left it. By the time I came back to the bike a few hours later it started no problem.

FYI my bike is very new... less than 200km's on the clock, an I did a spring oil change a few weeks ago, so fluid levels are good.

Anyone else have this hot start (re-start) issue? I remember this happening to me on my Gen 1 when I was stuck in traffic -- I thought it would be smart to shut off my bike to save me from being roasted, but then I had to wait about 10 minutes before she would start up again.
 
Spudley said:
I see a pattern starting to reveal itself. I hope this can be cleared up with some diagnostic work when we can edit. :popcorn:
Click to expand...

Fans on 10-15 degrees sooner will definately help, and I'll bet that'll be a gen3 flash capability(like gen1 and 2) as it is for basically any flashable ecu.
Engine Ice goes in All my machines too, and they do run cooler from it.
 
From Marty's post:

"Fans on 10-15 degrees sooner will definately help, and I'll bet that'll be a gen3 flash capability(like gen1 and 2) as it is for basically any flashable ecu.
Engine Ice goes in All my machines too, and they do run cooler from it."



I'm reckoning a guess that the coolant temp sensor is heat soaking, and sending inaccurate temp (resistance) signal to ecu. Possibly a run/no-run limit.

Anyone ?. Let's try and get this hashed out. My Gen I doesn't do this. Gen II's do. What else do we know to be true ?.

Someone want to put in a call to Brea ?.
 
Last edited:
Spudley said:
From Marty's post:

"Fans on 10-15 degrees sooner will definately help, and I'll bet that'll be a gen3 flash capability(like gen1 and 2) as it is for basically any flashable ecu.
Engine Ice goes in All my machines too, and they do run cooler from it."



I'm reckoning a guess that the coolant temp sensor is heat soaking, and sending inaccurate temp (resistance) signal to ecu. Possibly a run/no-run limit.

Anyone ?. Let's try and get this hashed out. My Gen I doesn't do this. Gen II's do. What else do we know to be true ?.

Someone want to put in a call to Brea ?.
Click to expand...

You and several others have mentioned this also being a gen2 problem.
I never experienced this on my gen2, or any of the dozen or so of them I rode, and on 100°f, 100% humidity days too.
FWIW, all those gen2s were non abs models. Not that abs is related to the problem; but perhaps another part changed as well that could be.
I noticed a few non abs related plugs had changed on the abs bikes(even though their function was the same).
Maybe later gen2 temp sensors(or something related) are from a different supplier?
I don't know, I'm just throwing it out there in case there is a pattern to be found.
I wonder if, and if so, how many, temperature related parts are carried over from gen2 to 3.
It does seem than the gen3 may have an overheat safety, that is only reset with a key cycle.
To my limited knowledge, the gen2 does not have that.
You've already been into the gen3 electrical Adam...sounds like a great project for you, lol
 
Spudley said:
Anyone ?. Let's try and get this hashed out. My Gen I doesn't do this. Gen II's do. What else do we know to be true ?.
Click to expand...
My '99 Gen 1 does the same thing when it's hot, on a hot day that is.
I switch it off, then if I go to restart it within say 10 seconds, it cranks slowly about 2 or 3 revolutions, then stops cranking even though I still have the start button pressed. If I leave it say 5 mins then try again, it cranks normal speed (fast) and starts immediately.
My thoughts on this are . . . that the starter armature is tight in the bush/bearing of the housing due to thermal expansion, and it needs a few thou' more clearance to allow for this. Anyway, it's somewhere to start with, in trying to resolve this issue.

But I firmly believe it is the starter that is the problem, I have ruled out...
the battery(new)
the cables and terminals (all OK)
the ground cable and connection to the engine,
the starter relay (replaced)
The starter motor itself, brushes all in good condion, armature windings and commutater all ok and tested ok.
So it comes down to the starter armature to bushes clearance reducing and binding when hot. I haven't actually proven my theory yet, I want to strip my starter and ream that bush a little to see if that fixes the problem.
That's my conclusion . . any thoughts or can you see anything I may have missed?
 
Kiwi Rider said:
My '99 Gen 1 does the same thing when it's hot, on a hot day that is.
I switch it off, then if I go to restart it within say 10 seconds, it cranks slowly about 2 or 3 revolutions, then stops cranking even though I still have the start button pressed. If I leave it say 5 mins then try again, it cranks normal speed (fast) and starts immediately.
My thoughts on this are . . . that the starter armature is tight in the bush/bearing of the housing due to thermal expansion, and it needs a few thou' more clearance to allow for this. Anyway, it's somewhere to start with, in trying to resolve this issue.

But I firmly believe it is the starter that is the problem, I have ruled out...
the battery(new)
the cables and terminals (all OK)
the ground cable and connection to the engine,
the starter relay (replaced)
The starter motor itself, brushes all in good condion, armature windings and commutater all ok and tested ok.
So it comes down to the starter armature to bushes clearance reducing and binding when hot. I haven't actually proven my theory yet, I want to strip my starter and ream that bush a little to see if that fixes the problem.
That's my conclusion . . any thoughts or can you see anything I may have missed?
Click to expand...
I like it, let's get one apart. :beerchug: Could it be that simple ?.
 
Kiwi Rider said:
My '99 Gen 1 does the same thing when it's hot, on a hot day that is.
I switch it off, then if I go to restart it within say 10 seconds, it cranks slowly about 2 or 3 revolutions, then stops cranking even though I still have the start button pressed. If I leave it say 5 mins then try again, it cranks normal speed (fast) and starts immediately.
My thoughts on this are . . . that the starter armature is tight in the bush/bearing of the housing due to thermal expansion, and it needs a few thou' more clearance to allow for this. Anyway, it's somewhere to start with, in trying to resolve this issue.

But I firmly believe it is the starter that is the problem, I have ruled out...
the battery(new)
the cables and terminals (all OK)
the ground cable and connection to the engine,
the starter relay (replaced)
The starter motor itself, brushes all in good condion, armature windings and commutater all ok and tested ok.
So it comes down to the starter armature to bushes clearance reducing and binding when hot. I haven't actually proven my theory yet, I want to strip my starter and ream that bush a little to see if that fixes the problem.
That's my conclusion . . any thoughts or can you see anything I may have missed?
Click to expand...
I think your theory on the armature clearance sounds right on the money. The sound of the starter trying to crank the motor over made me cringe a little. Sounded like metal on metal. Plus, the ability to bump start the bike right away tells me the engine is just fine, and that it's probably a starter motor problem.

I just know not to turn off the motor when it's hot if I intend to restart it quickly!
 
sixpack577 said:
Fans on 10-15 degrees sooner will definately help, and I'll bet that'll be a gen3 flash capability(like gen1 and 2) as it is for basically any flashable ecu.
Engine Ice goes in All my machines too, and they do run cooler from it.
Click to expand...
Actually on my Gen 1 I replaced the thermostat/fan switch with one from a Honda Accord (I think??) which seemed to help. Also there was the 2nd fan mod which I never got around to doing. However if it's the starter motor cooking and expanding then there's little a new sensor will do.
 
Is this truly a temperature problem? There are a couple of questions I would ask, like did you turn the motorcycle off with the kill switch or the key? If you used the kill switch did you cycle the key before trying to start again?

It's already been demonstrated and talked about on a few other threads that stalling or using the kill switch can cause this to happen. The solution was cycling the key resets the signal for the auto starter allowing for restart
 
kevin567 said:
Actually on my Gen 1 I replaced the thermostat/fan switch with one from a Honda Accord (I think??) which seemed to help. Also there was the 2nd fan mod which I never got around to doing. However if it's the starter motor cooking and expanding then there's little a new sensor will do.
Click to expand...

Turning the fans on sooner in the ecu definately helps keep temperatures lower.
They come on so high for emissions and a one size fits all for all markets/climates.
 
QFry said:
Is this truly a temperature problem? There are a couple of questions I would ask, like did you turn the motorcycle off with the kill switch or the key? If you used the kill switch did you cycle the key before trying to start again?

It's already been demonstrated and talked about on a few other threads that stalling or using the kill switch can cause this to happen. The solution was cycling the key resets the signal for the auto starter allowing for restart
Click to expand...
I used the kill switch to turn off the bike. I then turned the kill switch back to the on position and got the "low battery" starter response. I then turned the key off and on again, and tried starting again with the same result. I turned the key off to on again and tried starting a 3rd time with no success. I left the bike for 2.5h after which it started on the first crank.
 
I'm very interested in what Kiwi is proposing. If it's a manufacturer flaw, then we should be able to engineer a solution.

If something is cooling off just "that" much then we should be able to adjust for it.
 
One idea I had was to fit the armature into the bush (starter disassembled) and check the clearance by rotating the armature by hand a few revs just to see how it felt, if there’s any binding or if it’s smooth or even sloppy in the bush… then heat it and watch the temp using a infrared thermometer gun, when the shaft gets to 80degC ( oil temp and crankcase temp) recheck the ‘feel’ of the clearance, keep heating and checking the rotational clearance… a bit of a scientific approach to it.
And also check the ease of rotation with the starter fully assembled, using a heat gun on the housing at the bush area… checking temp and manually rotating the shaft to see if it starts getting stiffer to turn over.
What’d y’all think?
 
Personally (and I could be wrong) but I don’t think it’s mechanical. It’s either a battery/voltage issue or programming in the electronics via a temp sensor, etc. A sensor or something is telling the computer not to start via the Suzuki Easy Start System.

Still waiting for it to happen to mine so I can better diagnose.
 
Kiwi Rider said:
So it comes down to the starter armature to bushes clearance reducing and binding when hot. I haven't actually proven my theory yet, I want to strip my starter and ream that bush a little to see if that fixes the problem.
That's my conclusion . . any thoughts or can you see anything I may have missed?
Click to expand...

What about the starter clutch? Does it present similar concerns or no?

If a ceramic bearing can handle the wheels in high-power applications, can it be used effectively in the starter?
 
i was informed that the 22 models had a software update to solve this , earlier bikes could be updated at the dealers if they were experiencing this issue, that came from the dealer were i purchased my 22 bike , on the pdi they tried to install the update but it was showing it was already installed .
 
You must log in or register to reply here.

Similar threads

B
Hot start solution
2
Replies
31
Views
3,813
dk8047
dk8047
Gadget112
Starting issues on gen3
2
Replies
24
Views
2,491
Dogface
Dogface
pcs
hard start
2 3
Replies
51
Views
4,217
Oz22
O
GSXR1300RR-Gen3
Anyone w/ aftermarket battery still experiencing 'hot start' issue?
Replies
10
Views
770
stangman327
stangman327
RJB
bike runs hot
Replies
11
Views
781
RJB
RJB
Back
Top