A cure for cancer. Please pass this one on

[VaBusa]

Rollin20z, what you're saying is exactly what I'm trying to get through to those that either haven't been through it first hand OR haven't watched someone else live through this hell. I think it's easy for those that haven't to pass judgement. I too sat and listened to my Dad's doctor tell my Dad that chemo IS NOT the treatment of choice for his cancer, that it DOES NOT do very much for malignant melanoma. Guess what he had to undergo as his 2nd treatment for months on end? Yep, chemo...guess what it did for him? NOTHING...guess what grew while he was undergoing chemo treatment? His cancer...

Our stories are just two of so many, so until I see patients walking in to see their experienced doctors and able to undergo the very best option for their particular cancer without insurance BS, I'll go ahead and assume that $$ drives this train and always will, at the expense of patients' lives.

 

[S4L]

Actually, you're mistaken S4L. Docs and nurses WANT to help, it's the lawyers, insurance companies and pharmaceutical companies that make billions that keep America sick. You are the one that's quite in the dark if you think for one moment that patients aren't FORCED down a long path of treatments doctors and nurses KNOW don't work for their particular cancers, all because insurance companies won't cover the treatments that would be preferred by health care providers FIRST. Insurance companies work so closely with the puppetmasters at these huge pharmaceutical companies, their lawyers, the special interest groups on capital hill having more and more legislation passed to "protect" their ongoing right to make more money at the expense of patients.

I don't think for one moment anyone here blames the medical professionals. Most here seem to be blaming those that aren't actually WORKING in the system at all, just the ones that make sweeping decisions from behind a desk and earn the paycheck while patients are stuck spending months, years going through treatments that aren't ideal for their cancers.

As for my thinking on those that rush off hoping to have someone fix their *sniffles*? I think I said my peace on that topic as well a while back
https://www.hayabusa.org/forum/random-thoughts/151081-whats-up-overuse-urgent-care-er-nowadays.html

Insurance companies are definitely not friends with pharmaceutical companies. Your lucky if you can get an insurance company to cover a trade name drug (e.g. New). Most insurance companies want you to get a generic drug.

Pharmaceutical companies don't want you to buy generic meds. Generics are much cheaper and no longer very profitable. They want you to buy trade-name drugs.

These two branches of business are not friends. They are two businesses however, that are competing against each other.

Health insurance wants you to be healthy = more $$$ for them.

I know before in this thread I stated I was done with it, but as I keep reading and ALL you seem to be doing is defending no one but the pharmacological companies and the ones making money off these illness's. And then in no discreet way at all trying to justify it trying to stand in the medical healthcare field. So I guess the good question would be. What company has your vested interest? Or Which companies offer you the best perks for using their product?

Believe me, I wish I was in the pharmaceutical field as a drug rep. They make much more money than I do, PLUS bonuses.

And DO NOT say that doesn't happen and Health Care providers do not participate in unethical practices like that cause then I will straight out call you a liar. Seen it & witnessed it with my own eyes so yes I know it's a fact. And not just one peticular profession either, all the way across the board. Besides I do not remember reading anywhere in this thread of anyone directly blaming a doctor,nurse or anyone in direct contact with any patient's healthcare being the one's at fault here. But for some reason you still seem to be seeing that way thru those glasses your wearing.

I'll be the first to admit I hate that drug reps buy physician's offices Red Lobster for lunch every day of the week. I agree this is shady and unethical business. It does happen, every single day, choose your doctors wisely.

I hate this practice because the drugs that these reps are pushing are astronomically priced and this places a burden on patients. THIS DOES NOT MEAN HOWEVER, that these drugs are not great treatment options - later down the road when they actually become affordable.

I can also guarantee you that no nurse is getting any kickbacks from pharmaceutical companies for using any medicine. This wouldn't be cost-effective marketing because we cannot prescribe drugs.

It also doesn't matter that you haven't directly called out doctors and nurses - the implication is there. What you are saying is that researchers around the world, from all of the different labs, are hiding something from the ENTIRE medical field, which would make our lives that much easier. This proposition is absolutely absurd. You are saying that the expert physicians in each of their respective fields are TOO STUPID to see the wool being pulled over their eyes. You are implying that EXPERTS are TOO STUPID to clearly see what some lay-person has obviously discovered. .....

And yes VAB that is so true. As my wife and I were straight out told by our first oncologist that he and a few other consulting Dr's that the best thing for us would be go straight to Avastin treatments because they had showed very positive results in shrinking and treating GBM tumors but due to insurance,politics and whatever else bull could not be done until chemo/rad was done first. Grant it yes, a GBM is not curable per say(at least with medicines allowed now and are profitable) but is put in the class as controllable to a point. Which with what is available the outcome would still be inevitably the same. But who know's? Maybe if we could've went the way the Dr's would have like to have gone if allowed maybe she could have been around for more than just 9 months from diagnosis at least just got to have that one more christmas she wanted. That was her most favorite time of the year just like her mom, I can guarantee you it was gonna be the biggest best one she would have ever had or could have hoped for, because if she wanted it she would have gotten it someway somehow I would have found a way.

And now we see - your misdirected anger really isn't at the pharmaceutical companies. It is really at the insurance companies who seem to have a great reputation for being very austere in what they will and won't cover in the field of cancer treatment.

But as far as there being no cure yet but they are trying. That is total F****** B******* (I added the asterisks so the page wouldn't have to)


As far as that statement, well I guess most of us on this board aren't the only ignorant(I guess since we aren't in the "medical" field) people that see it the way it really is.

I'll be anxiously awaiting your cure for cancer, since it is that easy.

Sorry, healthcare and pharmaceutical company/big buisness profits should be in two different categories and not combined together the way it is being discussed here. Because there are many many healthcare professionals(doctors,nurses etc.) that see it the same way by trying to help the patient and not just looking at the year end or quarterly bonus's.

Besides Burzynski here's DCA

- ‪DCA - Cancer Cure Discovered - But YOU can't have it....‬‏[/url]


Even the good ole hemp debate:

- ‪CANCER - The Forbidden Cures - TRAILER‬‏[/url]

- ‪RUN FROM THE CURE - Full Version‬‏[/url]

This guy/gal seems to hit the nail pretty good to: (oh sorry it's another bike forum, must be another ignorant person also)

CANCER TOO PROFITABLE TO CURE

This one has some interesting points also:

PRESS Core - Evidentiary News » The cancer cure research scam. The pharmaceutical industry survives and thrives by perpetually searching for The Cure but intentionally never finding it.

And you can go on and on finding different articles/video's of lot's more besides these.

Pretty much all same the same thing no matter who you listen to "A Cure Is Not Profitable" bottom line, unless their high up in the money making scam.

And if that isn't enough than why don't we put some redneck hillbillies in the labs since the smartest brightest people the world supposedly has haven't been able to do it for a 100 years with billions and billions of dollars to do it with. Hell,give them some corn,water and a pot and they can whip up some good moonshine that'll cure a lot of stuff in no time.

I'm sorry, but your kidding right? Hemp oil can cure everything from arthritis to cancer huh? Man, I need some of that magic potion. Hey, where is the fountain of youth? Oh wait, lemme youtube it.

Stanislaw Burzynski and "Antineoplastons"



Look, I'm not saying insurances don't play a role in what can be done with patients, but that is another can of worms in itself. The insurance industry is looking after itself - THEY WANT A CURE ALL TREATMENT. THIS MEANS MONEY FOR THEM. Cancer is a massive hemorrhage of money coming out of their profits.

The reason certain treatments aren't covered has nothing to do with pharmaceutical companies. If you don't like the way insurance companies handle business then why have insurance? Just pay out of pocket? I mean, where do you think the money comes from to pay for all of this stuff?

There is no magic cure, treatments for cancer that we have show limited efficacy, there will ALWAYS be a fight with insurances to allow expensive procedures that show limited, or no efficacy. This is a bureaucratic monster that you are trying to move and change. Most of these denials have to do with cost and standards of care - which fall back to lawyers and litigation.

What I'm saying is it's the nature of the beast, there isn't any secret vindictive, treacherous underground conspiracy to keep people ill. That is just ridiculous. If there was, I assure you, the medical field would catch on.

 

[S4L]

Rollin20z, what you're saying is exactly what I'm trying to get through to those that either haven't been through it first hand OR haven't watched someone else live through this hell. I think it's easy for those that haven't to pass judgement. I too sat and listened to my Dad's doctor tell my Dad that chemo IS NOT the treatment of choice for his cancer, that it DOES NOT do very much for malignant melanoma. Guess what he had to undergo as his 2nd treatment for months on end? Yep, chemo...guess what it did for him? NOTHING...guess what grew while he was undergoing chemo treatment? His cancer...

Our stories are just two of so many, so until I see patients walking in to see their experienced doctors and able to undergo the very best option for their particular cancer without insurance BS, I'll go ahead and assume that $$ drives this train and always will, at the expense of patients' lives.

I thought this was about pharmaceutical companies, not insurance companies.

BTW, I don't think you two are trying to say the same thing.

He is saying that "The man" who is involved in multiple corporations, is keeping people sick.

You seem to be consistently voicing your discourse with medical insurance directed health care. Which is another topic entirely.

 

[VaBusa]

I thought this was about pharmaceutical companies, not insurance companies.

BTW, I don't think you two are trying to say the same thing.

He is saying that "The man" who is involved in multiple corporations, is keeping people sick.

You seem to be consistently voicing your discourse with medical insurance directed health care. Which is another topic entirely.

All I want is for doctors to be able to push treatments that work, and to allow treatments that are out there working in experiemental trials to be utilized, not as a last ditch effort, but as the first plan of attack. Most doctors want the same, but they are not allowed to follow that plan of attack, plain and simple.

I think many here are saying the same thing; we know options exist that work and we know money drives the business of cancer, that it's far more profitable to keep people sick than to get them healthy. I've seen it with my own eyes watching loved ones being denied the treatments that work for the ones that they are forced to go through first...it's a racket, all to line the pockets of greedy companies. I don't think anyone here blames the doctors and nurses; if anything, they want the same thing we want, and that is to help patients get the best care. It's not always happening, don't kid yourself in to thinking it does. As for pharmaceutical companies and insurance companies, I'm saying BOTH sit to earn off of YOUR ILLNESS, so they don't work real hard to get you the best care the first time around. Keeping you sick and on every kind of medicine is common practice. Take A - Y before Z is tried, even though Z is exactly what you needed anyway...the whole system is a joke.

 

[S4L]

All I want is for doctors to be able to push treatments that work, and to allow treatments that are out there working in experiemental trials to be utilized, not as a last ditch effort, but as the first plan of attack. Most doctors want the same, but they are not allowed to follow that plan of attack, plain and simple.

I think many here are saying the same thing; we know options exist that work and we know money drives the business of cancer, that it's far more profitable to keep people sick than to get them healthy. I've seen it with my own eyes watching loved ones being denied the treatments that work for the ones that they are forced to go through first...it's a racket, all to line the pockets of greedy companies. I don't think anyone here blames the doctors and nurses; if anything, they want the same thing we want, and that is to help patients get the best care. It's not always happening, don't kid yourself in to thinking it does. As for pharmaceutical companies and insurance companies, I'm saying BOTH sit to earn off of YOUR ILLNESS, so they don't work real hard to get you the best care the first time around. Keeping you sick and on every kind of medicine is common practice. Take A - Y before Z is tried, even though Z is exactly what you needed anyway...the whole system is a joke.

How does an insurance company make more money from you by you being sick? This is not the way insurance works. If I wrecked my car three times in a row, insurance would drop me, not pad me on the back.

Think about it, what you are saying is not logical.

 

[Rollin20z]

Believe me, I wish I was in the pharmaceutical field as a drug rep. They make much more money than I do, PLUS bonuses.

Just seemed from as hard as you seem to be defending pharmaceutical comp's saying that if there was a cure they would have put it out by now looked as if you were protecting your vested interests. Just looked to be as if you were coming off from a Dr or Pharm employee/investor.

I can also guarantee you that no nurse is getting any kickbacks from pharmaceutical companies for using any medicine.

I do know that, and now seeing you are a nurse I didn't mean to include you in that group.

And now we see - your misdirected anger really isn't at the pharmaceutical companies. It is really at the insurance companies who seem to have a great reputation for being very austere in what they will and won't cover in the field of cancer treatment.

As far as that. No, I still hold both pharmaceutical companies & insurance responsible for the ruthless actions they take against humanity for the dollar. insurance for making people go A-C when they know D is what the crisis calls for because the former are the cheaper way out for them. And yes if the patient dies in treatment A-B then at least their costs stop also, so at least they never had to pay out for the more expensive treatments. And also the pharmaceutical companies for holding back/burying cures because of the long term profit they lack. And if you honestly do not believe that is going on, then evidentally you are more naive then you seem.

I'll be anxiously awaiting your cure for cancer, since it is that easy.

Wish I had one, cause if I did I would be out at dinner with my wife right now. But how is it that the smartest people in the world with all that money for research and let's just say 50 years which we know they have been supposedly trying longer than that somehow cannot seem to come up with cures for diseases which are making certain people/companies/organizations billions upon billions of dollars in profit. But yet you see where certain people claim and try to prove they can do it and what do you know, those same money making places bury them in litigation and make it where their discoveries will never get the chance to be used. Why? Because it doesn't make them any profit and if it does get approved and is proven to work. Well guess what? There goes their profits.
I mean come on, you cannot honestly believe that this country with all it's crooked ass ways is gonna put human life in front of political revenue do you? Which we all know who the government is run by. Of course that's probably just a myth too.

I'm sorry, but your kidding right? Hemp oil can cure everything from arthritis to cancer huh?

No, I didn't claim it was a cure all. Just showing another random clip where someone was claiming to have a find that may help but of course it's natural which means no patents for big companies = no profit so it will never be produced even if it was proved to cure cancer. Even if it could only cure / relieve arthritis it still isn't as profitable as ben-gay or any other cremes/pill that just relieve the pain because someone does have a patent and is making profits from it.


Bottom line really is both Insurance and Pharmaceutical are both out for profit and not the best interest/health of the patient. Yes, two different entities.

Insurance makes their money from all the insured that never really need it, and the ones that do which is no where near the ones that don't they start with the cheapest possible treatments figuring something cheaper may work or if it is something more severe such as cancer,aids,heart disease the patient will expire before the more expensive treatments are worked up to.

Pharmaceutical because treating diseases for years is far more profitable than curing one. Even if the patient dies yes the treatment profit stops from that one, but look at how many millions more each year will need treatment over and over again. Sure even with curing a disease you may need maintenance follow ups meaning some profit but if the disease is cured then face it the pharm co isn't needed no where near as much. Sure even though there still will be millions each year needing the cure from them, just look at the billions of dollars they would be losing from research funds/grants/donations for looking for what has been found.

 

[RACER_X]

my wife is a cancer nurse, too bad she doesn't read this board, lol

i'm sure the ins. co's make out like a bandit, when my $400/mos policy can't cover the $100's of thousands of $ that fighting cancer can cost.....

hell i just had an MRI done last week to check for cancer, tht cost more then my yearly ins. and the $400 deduc i had to pay.......so $400x12= $4800 + $400 deduc = $5200, vs a $10,000 (if it cost that little) mri..........hmmm.

thats it, i;m sure socialized medicine is the cure!!!! what a joke.

 

[Blanca BusaLess]

Oof it took me an hour just to read the thread

I saw a two hour documentary on history channel or one of those channels and it showed our govt experimenting on troops and convicts with all kinds of stuff. They were giving troops bacterias newly discovered and to the convicts they were giving large amounts of LSD and brain washing them. In the second hour it dealt with flus and other sicknesses and it disclosed how drug companies and the military paid individuals to smash lightbulbs filled with toxins in places like subways and other confined places. They would do this and then record the numbers of people who went into hospitals with the symptoms and where. They would map this and make calculations relating to war. This was in the late 50s early 60s. It was very alarming to see this disclosed info of our govt and certain branches of it experimenting on it's own people. Personally I don't believe our elected leaders or those in power give two craps about you or me. It is big business to treat the flu. I do believe there are doctors out there desperately seeking cures and as ones mentioned there have been victories but I do think there are those unamed who want to keep people sick and treat them rather than cure.

Think about it simply.
You have 100 people and they get sick.
First option: cure them and they go home, you have zero clients.
Second option: treat them send them home wait for them to get sick again so they come back, you still have 100 clients.
Greed takes over common goodwill thought.

 

[VaBusa]

S4L - Wait, do you think insurance companies are not rich?!

Via DROID X

 

[S4L]

my wife is a cancer nurse, too bad she doesn't read this board, lol

i'm sure the ins. co's make out like a bandit, when my $400/mos policy can't cover the $100's of thousands of $ that fighting cancer can cost.....

hell i just had an MRI done last week to check for cancer, tht cost more then my yearly ins. and the $400 deduc i had to pay.......so $400x12= $4800 + $400 deduc = $5200, vs a $10,000 (if it cost that little) mri..........hmmm.

thats it, i;m sure socialized medicine is the cure!!!! what a joke.

??? Your right it is a joke... So is me paying for your healthcare with my tax money while you file bankruptcy after your first heart attack while uninsured. Whoops, looks like the joke is on me.

 

[S4L]

S4L - Wait, do you think insurance companies are not rich?!

Via DROID X

Where did you get that idea? Of course they are rich, and they got that way by being greedy and ruthless businesses. Hence, saying that they aren't the make-a-wish foundation. If they payed for every single experimental treatment, cosmetic surgery, whatever, then heck - they might not get their bonuses.

 

[RACER_X]

??? Your right it is a joke... So is me paying for your healthcare with my tax money while you file bankruptcy after your first heart attack while uninsured. Whoops, looks like the joke is on me.

so you have 2 systems, ours and socialized, which do you prefer?

some eutopian health plan, where everybody gets treated for free and no extra taxes or fee's...., then there's the real world

 

[VaBusa]

How does an insurance company make more money from you by you being sick? This is not the way insurance works. If I wrecked my car three times in a row, insurance would drop me, not pad me on the back.

Think about it, what you are saying is not logical.

Well, if you are dead, you won't be paying in, that is for sure. I'm fortunate and have affordable insurance, as do you I would suspect. Not all patients are so fortunate and they pay dearly into the system. It's not like car insurance; you don't get dropped for using it too much LOL

Via DROID X

 

[Rollin20z]

my wife is a cancer nurse, too bad she doesn't read this board, lol

i'm sure the ins. co's make out like a bandit, when my $400/mos policy can't cover the $100's of thousands of $ that fighting cancer can cost.....

hell i just had an MRI done last week to check for cancer, tht cost more then my yearly ins. and the $400 deduc i had to pay.......so $400x12= $4800 + $400 deduc = $5200, vs a $10,000 (if it cost that little) mri..........hmmm.

thats it, i;m sure socialized medicine is the cure!!!! what a joke.

If you don't think Insurance Companies make out like a bandit then do a little research and you'll be surprised. Yes, treating a cancer patient(or any catastrophic illness) is indeed expensive for the insurance and may lose money on that one plan. But you have to take into acct the tens of thousands plans they get paid for each month that don't get any claims against them. Just like car insurance if it wasn't profitable there would be no such thing. I know I have paid for car insurance on multiple vehicles and medical insurance for over 20 years and have used the car insurance once in that whole time, so let's figure up how much profit they have made off just me on that. And as far as the medical insurance maybe a handful of times from just me and never anything anymore serious than broken bones or stitches, so lets just say they made some off that one too. So let's just say they are doing fine.

And FWIW an average MRI is no where near $10K, I'm no medical expert but just from my experience they average $1-3k depending on extense of the test(again just from my exp). And then of course that is what hospitals bill to insurance(normally seen on your Explanation of Medical Benefits) but you will also see is let's say Cigna Adj which is what the insurance company will deduct from the hospital's fee for service. From what I have seen from previous billing they tend to be 60-85% of actual charge is what hospital agrees to accept. Sometimes I have seen where they try and charge the patient for the additional but from what I understand when a hospital agrees to accept that certain insurance they also agree to their payment terms.

 

[Rollin20z]

Well, if you are dead, you won't be paying in, that is for sure. I'm fortunate and have affordable insurance, as do you I would suspect. Not all patients are so fortunate and they pay dearly into the system. It's not like car insurance; you don't get dropped for using it too much LOL

Via DROID X

That is true. In our case we were both under her insurance plan and yes there was med,vision,dental,AD&D,STD,LTD,life for like $240 month. She got sick couldn't work in kicks ShortTermDisabilty which is good for 6 months still covers ins and all. After that well you know you can't work and no returning in sight well cost too much to keep you so in ever so politely ways termination from co is there and since all those benefits go thru the company at extensive discounts because of volume base which you are no longer entitled to, in our case we had 1 option. Cobra, which ran a tad over $800 a month for just her for just medical from $240 for both of us with everything included, to add me would almost double it. Of course we couldn't afford to not get it for her but I just opted out for myself. Now of course since she was the employed being terminated even though because of illness they said we had availability to it for 18months only. But I did some checking I think I could've fought it and extended maybe to 36 if needed. And you have to imagine what the estimates were looking like trying to get insurance for someone with that type of cancer knowing it was gonna be an expensive cost for them from the get go if/when you could find someone to offer coverage.
To this day I am still with no insurance, pretty much because I don't work mainly because I haven't decided where I want to go and resettle down yet and do not feel like starting anything around here, so that way I do not feel tied down in any way once I do decide where I am headed. So for me since I do not go to doctors very much at all it is just easier/cheaper for me to self pay as needed than to put out $4-6k a year for a decent plan, then meet deductibles before most will kick anyway.

So yes indeed Insurance Companies also turn a good profit. And as long as the main policy holder doesn't get ill and unable to work, insurance will pay off for you(the covered), but if it's the other way around forget it your screwed.

 

[S4L]

That is true. In our case we were both under her insurance plan and yes there was med,vision,dental,AD&D,STD,LTD,life for like $240 month. She got sick couldn't work in kicks ShortTermDisabilty which is good for 6 months still covers ins and all. After that well you know you can't work and no returning in sight well cost too much to keep you so in ever so politely ways termination from co is there and since all those benefits go thru the company at extensive discounts because of volume base which you are no longer entitled to, in our case we had 1 option. Cobra, which ran a tad over $800 a month for just her for just medical from $240 for both of us with everything included, to add me would almost double it. Of course we couldn't afford to not get it for her but I just opted out for myself. Now of course since she was the employed being terminated even though because of illness they said we had availability to it for 18months only. But I did some checking I think I could've fought it and extended maybe to 36 if needed. And you have to imagine what the estimates were looking like trying to get insurance for someone with that type of cancer knowing it was gonna be an expensive cost for them from the get go if/when you could find someone to offer coverage.
To this day I am still with no insurance, pretty much because I don't work mainly because I haven't decided where I want to go and resettle down yet and do not feel like starting anything around here, so that way I do not feel tied down in any way once I do decide where I am headed. So for me since I do not go to doctors very much at all it is just easier/cheaper for me to self pay as needed than to put out $4-6k a year for a decent plan, then meet deductibles before most will kick anyway.

So yes indeed Insurance Companies also turn a good profit. And as long as the main policy holder doesn't get ill and unable to work, insurance will pay off for you(the covered), but if it's the other way around forget it your screwed.

And bam, that is how insurance companies make their money, and the argument for socialized medicine - where crap like that doesn't happen.

Sorry you had to go threw such stuff Rollin. I agree with everything you have said so far in regards to insurance.

BTW VABusa, our insurance is actually pretty lousy. The doctors are screwed even worse. The best insurance programs I personally have heard come from the government (government jobs etc.). I found it surprising to work in the healthcare field and get screwed on health insurance.

 

[islandboi3]

Right next to RACISM AND SEGREGATION, this is one of the most disturbing things I've EVER witnessed in my life!!!! I call it "CORPORATE ENSLAVING".... It's ashame I've never seen or heard of Dr. Burzynski and his discoveries! Shame on us as Americans, and more so human beings.. For some ignorant reason, I still have hope in us as a human race to do the right thing. Thank you very much for this posting!

 

[Busa1166]

I lost someone very close to me from cancer yesterday so I decided to bump this thread.


The FDA killing men, women and children since 1977 to 2013 at the behest of multi billion dollar pharmaceutical companies. Then spending millions trying to incarcerate the Dr. so the drug companies can steal his idea while he rots in prison.

When you read up on the Tucker story 1948 Tucker Sedan - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia you see the death of the "American Dream". Seems like this is a similar scenario but there are thousands of people, many of them children dying all over the country while these people figure out how to get the big bucks from this treatment for themselves and cut Dr. Burzynski out of it.

 

[VaBusa]

I'm so sorry to hear Busa1166 :down:

Cancer has taken too many from us all, and I still maintain what I said all along in this thread - humans are worth way more alive and sick that alive and well...

 

[kml]

The OTHER Burzynski Patient Group | 35 years is long enough.

cheers
ken