Air Density Effect on Power

Check out the NHRA tour when they head to the Mile High Nationals in Colorado. Compare that to the rest of the seasons performances and you will definately see drastic changes in performances. In the fuel (nitro) classes, you see less of a percentage of loss. The forced air engines are affected less. These guys are also fighting down pressure losses on the cars and bikes at speed when high altitude racing is conducted promoting tire spin easier, so there is definatley an air density affect regardless of F.I., blown, or NA. Fuel will need to be optimized to the available air...or lack thereof. Humidity plays a major role as well. Water DISPLACES
oxygen in the air...key highlight on the word DISPLACES. For every molecule of water introduced into the air...away goes a molecule of oxygen creating a rich condition...however it is possible to create a "detonation environment" in severly humid conditions. Anyway, look to the performance differences at the NHRA venues and you will learn a lot about this subject. I have a fuel
catalyst device that you simply drop into the fuel tank and makes some of these conditions not so noticeable. This product is called the Fitch Fuel Catalyst and I have easily over 100 documented "A" vs."B" comparisons proving that this product works.I mean not to use this website for business gain as much as recreation, so if anyone is interested in knowing more about this product, please feel free to e-mail me and I could provide more information to you. Good posts by everyone. I am new here and look forward to enjoying the good posts by all you folks.
 
Oh yea..and dragstrips DO NOT compensate for
altitude, air density or anything else! What you run that day is directly proportionate to you being able to tune for that given days conditions.
 
Another consideration is that as air density lessens it takes less hp to power through it. Obviously it's not an even trade. I'm at 5500 ft. and miss my HP! Hello turbo kit!
 
Dana,
One last time, did I say the power would stay the same?

No I didn't. You said I did and then told me I was wrong.

What you are saying about air temps and boost pressure is correct. I don't dispute that.

Do me a favor, both you and Vortech. Stop telling me what I said when I didn't. If you inferred something else from what I said than that is an err on your part. Please read what I wrote and not what you think I meant. For crying out loud it's like talking to a woman over here!

Jamie
 
Wow Supertuner,

Have you ever run at Bandimere Speedway? You seem to know lots about high altitude racing. So how much will the fuel catalyst help at high altitude?

All I am trying to do is break into the 9s. I have a ways to go but with a little more chassis and a little more power I think I am there.

So that everyone can compare apples to apples, typically the Busa at Bandemere (same track as the Mile High Nationals that super tuner was talking about) post very high 10s or low 11s. The busas consitently run 130mph quarters. Zx11s are typcially in the 11.2-11.5 range. Most 750s are 11.7-12.3 range. 600s are running mid 12s to low 13s.

There is a ZX6r that runs there that is out running the busas in a quarter. Running 10.90s atg 130. HE says it only has minor head work and Dymag wheels. I am thinkin a 750 or 900 engine. He is a good rider though and weighs in aboput 130bs. Either way it is embarrasing to get beat on a busa by a 600.


Note these aren't corrected times. These are tims that people put down.

-Dana
 
Dana T...no I do not participate too much in dragracing at high altitudes personally, but I have lots of customers that have given me the opportunity to speak somewhat fluently about the topic. I also build some very powerful snowmobile racing engines and sometimes these racers find themselves at some decent altitudes. As for the motorcycle
racers at Bandimere...suffice it to say that I have some NHRA Pro Stock Motorcycle background that has given me some data as well. There are some correction factors available through SAE that will give you some idea of what your bike would run in the event that you were to run at sea level for example. I think you would stand to gain a great deal if there is someone who could go through a very detailed and strategic tuning session with you on a Dynojet or other suitable rear wheel dynamometer at the altitude you are racing at. I have helped some racers with their tuning and racebike preparation in the AMA/PROSTAR 600 Supersport
class and this guy running high 10's with a 600 is probably for real. I suspect that our 600 Supersport that ran some low 10's would probably fall off about a second or perhaps a little less at high altitude. Lets not forget too that there are good and bad weather days at ALL altitudes, so not only could you be trying to go fast at high altitude, you might be trying to do it on a bad weather day to boot! So keep this in mind when speaking of performances and consistency. I AM NOT speaking from experience here, but I would tend to think that you would probably need to be at all minus settings for L-M-H if you are using the stock ECM. Perhaps maybe like -10L,
-10M and -5H. But please...and I beg you to not take this as "carved in stone" specs. I have not tried this! I am in Connecticut and close to sea level here, so I am merely speaking from a "suspect" standpoint in that I suspect something like thses settings might be good...testing is the only way to know. The Fitch Fuel Catalyst is available from me.
My e-mail is... Klies ECP@aol.com
Website is...www.easterncycleperf.com
I tune lots and lots of motorcycles and love the Hayabusa. If I could be of any assistance
please contact me.
 
Dana T...no I do not participate too much in dragracing at high altitudes personally, but I have lots of customers that have given me the opportunity to speak somewhat fluently about the topic. I also build some very powerful snowmobile racing engines and sometimes these racers find themselves at some decent altitudes. As for the motorcycle
racers at Bandimere...suffice it to say that I have some NHRA Pro Stock Motorcycle background that has given me some data as well. There are some correction factors available through SAE that will give you some idea of what your bike would run in the event that you were to run at sea level for example. I think you would stand to gain a great deal if there is someone who could go through a very detailed and strategic tuning session with you on a Dynojet or other suitable rear wheel dynamometer at the altitude you are racing at. I have helped some racers with their tuning and racebike preparation in the AMA/PROSTAR 600 Supersport
class and this guy running high 10's with a 600 is probably for real. I suspect that our 600 Supersport that ran some low 10's would probably fall off about a second or perhaps a little less at high altitude. Lets not forget too that there are good and bad weather days at ALL altitudes, so not only could you be trying to go fast at high altitude, you might be trying to do it on a bad weather day to boot! So keep this in mind when speaking of performances and consistency. I AM NOT speaking from experience here, but I would tend to think that you would probably need to be at all minus settings for L-M-H if you are using the stock ECM. Perhaps maybe like -10L,
-10M and -5H. But please...and I beg you to not take this as "carved in stone" specs. I have not tried this! I am in Connecticut and close to sea level here, so I am merely speaking from a "suspect" standpoint in that I suspect something like thses settings might be good...testing is the only way to know. The Fitch Fuel Catalyst is available from me.
My e-mail is... Klies ECP@aol.com
Website is...www.easterncycleperf.com
I tune lots and lots of motorcycles and love the Hayabusa. If I could be of any assistance
please contact me.
 
Dana T...no I do not participate too much in dragracing at high altitudes personally, but I have lots of customers that have given me the opportunity to speak somewhat fluently about the topic. I also build some very powerful snowmobile racing engines and sometimes these racers find themselves at some decent altitudes. As for the motorcycle
racers at Bandimere...suffice it to say that I have some NHRA Pro Stock Motorcycle background that has given me some data as well. There are some correction factors available through SAE that will give you some idea of what your bike would run in the event that you were to run at sea level for example. I think you would stand to gain a great deal if there is someone who could go through a very detailed and strategic tuning session with you on a Dynojet or other suitable rear wheel dynamometer at the altitude you are racing at. I have helped some racers with their tuning and racebike preparation in the AMA/PROSTAR 600 Supersport
class and this guy running high 10's with a 600 is probably for real. I suspect that our 600 Supersport that ran some low 10's would probably fall off about a second or perhaps a little less at high altitude. Lets not forget too that there are good and bad weather days at ALL altitudes, so not only could you be trying to go fast at high altitude, you might be trying to do it on a bad weather day to boot! So keep this in mind when speaking of performances and consistency. I AM NOT speaking from experience here, but I would tend to think that you would probably need to be at all minus settings for L-M-H if you are using the stock ECM. Perhaps maybe like -10L,
-10M and -5H. But please...and I beg you to not take this as "carved in stone" specs. I have not tried this! I am in Connecticut and close to sea level here, so I am merely speaking from a "suspect" standpoint in that I suspect something like thses settings might be good...testing is the only way to know. The Fitch Fuel Catalyst is available from me.
My e-mail is... Klies ECP@aol.com
Website is...www.easterncycleperf.com
I tune lots and lots of motorcycles and love the Hayabusa. If I could be of any assistance
please contact me.
 
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