Beloved Busa vs. ZX 10

[beunes]

good point about the rider weight difference im a pretty small guy 5'9" 145 lbs. even though the busa is a beast as far as weight is concerned 550 lbs (wet) compared to 433 lbs. (wet) for the ZX 10. judging by bullet's weight just as a comparison he looks like he weighs in at least 250 lbs. thats 550 + 145= 695 lbs. total weight for me and the busa compared to 433 + 250= 683 lbs. Now as light as the 10 is we would only be seperated by 695 - 683= 12 lbs not too big of a difference... now the guy that i will be racing weighs close to maybe 200 lbs. so the differecne will be greater but how much of a difference is that going to make.

(bike weights according to Motorcyclist Magazine)



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[fasrnu]

Personally I love 'em both for different reasons. For me the 10 is the total package. Insane power, light weight, comfort, handlin', sweet styling... did I mention insane power?

The busa is, well... it's a busa. I don't think anyone here needs that one explained to 'em. It's just one of those things that if it has to be explained, you'll never understand. Even though I think it's dead wrong for zuk to allow the liters to get so close, and maybe even overtake the busa in some aspects (particularly top end out of the box and 1/4 mile ET's) the busa is an awesome bike regardless of it's status in the speed wars.

Anyway, just wanted to say that your analogy is more accurate than some might think.

My 04 Busa with a pipe will whup your wheel braking, frame cracking, knuckle draggin 10r with a pipe.

 

[btreaves]

good point about the rider weight difference im a pretty small guy 5'9" 145 lbs. even though the busa is a beast as far as weight is concerned 550 lbs (wet) compared to 433 lbs. (wet) for the ZX 10. judging by bullet's weight just as a comparison he looks like he weighs in at least 250 lbs. thats 550 + 145= 695 lbs. total weight for me and the busa compared to 433 + 250= 683 lbs. Now as light as the 10 is we would only be seperated by 695 - 683= 12 lbs not too big of a difference... now the guy that i will be racing weighs close to maybe 200 lbs. so the differecne will be greater but how much of a difference is that going to make.

(bike weights according to Motorcyclist Magazine)

With your size and weight...If you can get a good launch, you'll be handing out whoopins on the regular. You just got to get 100% on the gas fast.

Basically it goes like this

3500 rpms at launch
light turns green
quickly ease out the clutch, give more gas, more agressively release clutch, more gas, let go of clutch clutch pin the throttle until you get scared (it's going to wheelie) then shift to 2nd, give 100% throttle, shift to third, give 100% throttle, shift to fourth, give 100% throttle and it's over.

Good luck, you'll get good with a little practice. You should be able to run 10.2's in your sleep in no time. Getting lower times basically means you've got to get more agressive with the clutch off the line and shift at 10.5k.

 

[bacharles]

I think it's more the weight difference that makes the ZX10 so competitive with the Busa. Just think what the Busa would be like if it were about 50 to 60lbs lighter.

 

[beunes]

When you launch your bike make sure you slip the clutch nice and smooth and when you shift do not use the clutch just blip the throttle and shift

wouldnt that be a bad idea or is it helpful in squeezing out those few extra tenths of a sec. i love my bike and i would hate to have to replace my clutch right away.... i know that launching is where this is going to be won or lost so any tips would help out alot.

 

[1127 TO 1299]

man
i have raced alot (illegally)
in industrial park where there is nobody at night.
i got dozen of races but not on the busa and if you ask me at what rpm do I launch,
i would not be able to tell you BECAUSE I FELL THE BIKE AND JUST KNOW THAT IT'S GOING TO BE GOOD.
Some people are more technical and that's fine.
But I think that felling the bike is what you need to concentrate on.
Not staring at the rev-o-meter (new word) and miss your lunch cuz you didn't see the flag go down.

I've raced alot legally and illegally too and one thing I know you need to know to run consistent quarter mile times is your launch RPM.

3-4k is about all you need to get a good launch.

Oh and BTW, it's "FEEL" the bike, not "fell" the bike.

of course it's FEEL the bike
but when I am working, talking on the phone and posting at the same time, the last thing on my mind is proofreading myself.

As long as I didn't type FELL OFF the bike

ahhaha

 

[rob t]

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[Joshinthecity]

OK josh so what you are saying to me is NOS!!!! (wonder if i can hide it under the rear seat...lol) I NEED NOS!!!!

Possibly.
You'll need something !
First time for me getting passed by ANYTHING under any conditions. I didn't like it.

 

[Got-Busa?]

I've just done this, last weekend in fact.
stock for stock, same rider skills, you're gunna get beat.
I was runnin 10.8 and ZX10R running 10.6. The weird thing is, we were neck and neck till the last third of the track, then the 10 walked me. it was bone stock and the owner was a nice bloke, happy to chat and what not.
If the track was twice as long, you'd be fine.
1/4 mile's being what they are. You're gunna get beat.
Can't argue with the numbers man.
more HP and far less weight on the 10 makes for a quicker bike over a short distance.
Simple.

Josh

It is going to be a ridders race....REGARDLESS.....of what mods you or he has if you are both the same weight and experience level!?!?

But as far as stock for stock the BUSA can and should win!



Josh,

The fact that you are running 10.8 on a 9 second bike tells me you need more practice. That is what wins races....anyone can go out and buy more mods.....the guy out there learning to launch what he has will be the fastest and most consistent.

So it's the bikes fault you lost to a ZX10R? Give me a break, I have run a 10.8 on a STOCK GSXR-600!

Learning to ride properly goes a long way...

 

[BulletTrain]

Not bein' a bobo or anything but if you have to ask what you need to do to beat him you'd better hope he's havin' to ask someone how to beat you, too. The bikes are close enough in the real world that rider skill and sometimes luck decides which bike wins. I haven't ran a busa (or technically raced anyone side by side yet) but I've left every bike that has tried to hang with me so far. I hope to get a chance to do some roll ons with a local busa eventually. I think it would have been interesing before the 16t cs sprocket. Should be even more interesting now.

Seriously man, it sounds like you need to forget about racin' and just get some more seat time on the busa. When you're experienced enough on it and ready to race you won't have to ask what you need to do. Tryin' to do it before that is just askin' for trouble. At the very least you could get yer ass handed to ya and give us 10 guys another busa kill story and notch on our swingarm.

Hey Bullet Train...How much do you weigh? Cuz if that's you in that picture sitting on that ZX-10R, I'll give you 10 and the hit from a dead stop...Hell I'll give you the same race in a roll on.

You can't be winning many races if you weigh 250+lbs unless everyone you race weighs the same or more.

Let the flaming began!

No flames from me. No doubt my fat ass will slow the 10 down. You also obviously have more racin' experience than I do on bikes, so like I said in my original post here, rider skill would likely give you the win since you claim to have done so much racin'.

Hell I haven't even attempted a single drag style launch on the 10 because that's not what I bought it for. Don't care to smoke the clutch tryin' to learn to launch it. That's why I'm not runnin' my mouth about wantin' to race any busas. My only mention of runnin' a busa was that I plan to have a few friendly go's at one that's owned by a dude local to me. No shame if he beats me, no braggin' rights if I beat him (because I don't know how well he can ride it. Could be that his bike could take mine but he can't ride it well enough to do it. Very well could be the other way around, too.

Anyway, no thanks on the race. I'd be doin' exactly what I suggested beunes NOT do... I'd be racin' the 10 before I'm ready.

 

[BulletTrain]

When you launch your bike make sure you slip the clutch nice and smooth and when you shift do not use the clutch just blip the throttle and shift

wouldnt that be a bad idea or is it helpful in squeezing out those few extra tenths of a sec. i love my bike and i would hate to have to replace my clutch right away.... i know that launching is where this is going to be won or lost so any tips would help out alot.

Drag style launches smoke clutches, man. If yer gonna play you gotta be willin' to pay... That's why I ain't doin' any launches on the 10. I don't plan to drag race it so why waste my clutch tryin' to learn how to drag launch the thing?

Not what I bought it for. I'd have gotten another busa for sure if drag racin' was still what I loved most.

Train would eventually have made it to the drag strip. If Diablo sees track time you can bet it will be a road race course on a track day or somethin'. I have no interest whatsoever in draggin' it. The closest I'll come is doin' roll ons on nice, long straights out in the country. Not in a hurry to do that and won't do it on a regular basis. Can't afford to get caught.

 

[Joshinthecity]

I've just done this, last weekend in fact.
stock for stock, same rider skills, you're gunna get beat.
I was runnin 10.8 and ZX10R running 10.6. The weird thing is, we were neck and neck till the last third of the track, then the 10 walked me. it was bone stock and the owner was a nice bloke, happy to chat and what not.
If the track was twice as long, you'd be fine.
1/4 mile's being what they are. You're gunna get beat.
Can't argue with the numbers man.
more HP and far less weight on the 10 makes for a quicker bike over a short distance.
Simple.

Josh

It is going to be a ridders race....REGARDLESS.....of what mods you or he has if you are both the same weight and experience level!?!?

But as far as stock for stock the BUSA can and should win!



Josh,

The fact that you are running 10.8 on a 9 second bike tells me you need more practice. That is what wins races....anyone can go out and buy more mods.....the guy out there learning to launch what he has will be the fastest and most consistent.

So it's the bikes fault you lost to a ZX10R? Give me a break, I have run a 10.8 on a STOCK GSXR-600!

Learning to ride properly goes a long way...

Make no mistake. I am under no illusions that I am anything but an amature at drag racing. Far from my intention to give any other impression.
That said though,
if the 10 is more powerful AND much lighter, stock for stock, with similar rider skill, why do you think a Busa would win ?
I don't literally think it's "the bikes fault", but when you're tucked-in flat out and a 10 rides slowly past you, what do you suggest one should think ?
BTW, I am a fat bastard at 120kg too. In my case, the other rider was a little smaller than me also.
But now we are talking stock for stock, same rider, no mods.
My money is obviously on the lighter more powerful bike.


Josh.

 

[willgetbusa]

i still say these bikes are pretty even stock vs. stock imo. however, if you're going to spend tons of money on performance mods just for bragging rights, go for it and do what makes you feel good because it's your money. if mods is the game then the race becomes who ever has the most money on mods wins. i doubt anyone is going to earn many props from the other riders with stock or less modded bikes because it's not a skill thing anymore, it's all about the money. even though it's heavier, some people seem to forget the torque advantage that the busa has over the new liters. that's why it's still a 9 second bike in the 1/4 mile just like all the new liters minus the 1000rr stock vs. stock.

 

[Joshinthecity]

i still say these bikes are pretty even stock vs. stock imo. however, if you're going to spend tons of money on performance mods just for bragging rights, go for it and do what makes you feel good because it's your money. if mods is the game then the race becomes who ever has the most money on mods wins. i doubt anyone is going to earn many props from the other riders with stock or less modded bikes because it's not a skill thing anymore, it's all about the money. even though it's heavier, some people seem to forget the torque advantage that the busa has over the new liters. that's why it's still a 9 second bike in the 1/4 mile just like all the new liters minus the 1000rr stock vs. stock.

Torque is a fantastic thing, my favourite thing about the busa, and a good reason for me to stick with it no matter what. I love my Busa.
Not that torque has much to do with things at the drags though, where you spend ALL your time in the very top end of the tacho. I'd say if you were relying on torque at all at the drags, you're shifting too low.
Totally different on the street though.
J,

 

[Blue Streak]

i still say these bikes are pretty even stock vs. stock imo.  however, if you're going to spend tons of money on performance mods just for bragging rights, go for it and do what makes you feel good because it's your money.  if mods is the game then the race becomes who ever has the most money on mods wins. i doubt anyone is going to earn many props from the other riders with stock or less modded bikes because it's not a skill thing anymore, it's all about the money.  even though it's heavier, some people seem to forget the torque advantage that the busa has over the new liters.  that's why it's still a 9 second bike in the 1/4 mile just like all the new liters minus the 1000rr stock vs. stock.  

Torque is a fantastic thing, my favourite thing about the busa, and a good reason for me to stick with it no matter what. I love my Busa.
Not that torque has much to do with things at the drags though, where you spend ALL your time in the very top end of the tacho. I'd say if you were relying on torque at all at the drags, you're shifting too low.
Totally different on the street though.
J,

You really don't know anything about racing do you? You say torque has nothing to do with drag racing then explain to me why the busa launches so good if its not using its torque advantage at the strip.

One reason you got pulled on by the 10 is that you weigh more then the zx10 owner. I am also sure that you was clutching your shifts and not shifting fast (just so you know that eats up alot more time than you would think). Just like Got-busa said your running 10.80's on a busa you really need to learn to ride it.

 

[Aughtsix]

If you're quiet you can hear the foundation cracking, and oh what a fall it will be...

Ultimately you can mod yourself into the poor house but it will all come down to the bikes ability to hook up. The power has to be transferred to the pavement or all else fails.

The bottom line is, the 10r is far lighter than the Busa and, when the limit of tire adhesion is reached on both bikes, the 10r will still be far lighter than the Busa. Advantage, ZX-10r.

Steve

 

[Aughtsix]

[clip]... then explain to me why the busa launches so good if its not using its torque advantage at the strip.

Chassis geometry.

High torque actually makes a smooth launch a more difficult, not an easier, proposition. The reason is that torque is wanting to make the machine bend and twist and move around, as well as wanting to break the tire loose.

The Busa launches well despite its torque, not because of it.

Steve

 

[Revlis]

If you're quiet you can hear the foundation cracking, and oh what a fall it will be...

Ultimately you can mod yourself into the poor house but it will all come down to the bikes ability to hook up.  The power has to be transferred to the pavement or all else fails.  

The bottom line is, the 10r is far lighter than the Busa and, when the limit of tire adhesion is reached on both bikes, the 10r will still be far lighter than the Busa.  Advantage, ZX-10r.  

Steve

BAH! I still think that the Busa's size and weight is an advantage from a dead stop. Your simply able to twist that throttle harder faster and earlier than you will on a ZX10. IT's a theory anyway.

Modern tires being what they are, I do not think they are going to be the limiting factor. I think the limit is going to be the ability to keep the front end below the horizon...

But It hasn't come up yet... The 10's I have ran into on the street all THREE OF EM' have all been ridden by REAL PEOPLE... With some Fuggin Brains in their heads... No running for broke, no BS Stoplight drag racing... GO Figure huh???

So all this fuggin Which bike is faster talk is not only just about fuggin old, it's also about pointless... It's not the bike... It's the rider...

We have folks with Turbo's and 300 HP that still cannot break into the 9 second range... All kinds of posing and bullshit out there... Take it too the 1/4 and work it out, or STFU...

Just my .02

 

[BulletTrain]

If you're quiet you can hear the foundation cracking, and oh what a fall it will be...

Ultimately you can mod yourself into the poor house but it will all come down to the bikes ability to hook up. The power has to be transferred to the pavement or all else fails.

The bottom line is, the 10r is far lighter than the Busa and, when the limit of tire adhesion is reached on both bikes, the 10r will still be far lighter than the Busa. Advantage, ZX-10r.

Steve

BAH! I still think that the Busa's size and weight is an advantage from a dead stop. Your simply able to twist that throttle harder faster and earlier than you will on a ZX10. IT's a theory anyway.

Modern tires being what they are, I do not think they are going to be the limiting factor. I think the limit is going to be the ability to keep the front end below the horizon...

But It hasn't come up yet... The 10's I have ran into on the street all THREE OF EM' have all been ridden by REAL PEOPLE... With some Fuggin Brains in their heads... No running for broke, no BS Stoplight drag racing... GO Figure huh???

So all this fuggin Which bike is faster talk is not only just about fuggin old, it's also about pointless... It's not the bike... It's the rider...

We have folks with Turbo's and 300 HP that still cannot break into the 9 second range... All kinds of posing and bullshit out there... Take it too the 1/4 and work it out, or STFU...

Just my .02

I agree 100% on all points Rev... Well said.

 

[Cecil_Stringer]

If you're quiet you can hear the foundation cracking, and oh what a fall it will be...

Ultimately you can mod yourself into the poor house but it will all come down to the bikes ability to hook up.  The power has to be transferred to the pavement or all else fails.  

The bottom line is, the 10r is far lighter than the Busa and, when the limit of tire adhesion is reached on both bikes, the 10r will still be far lighter than the Busa.  Advantage, ZX-10r.  

Steve

BAH!  I still think that the Busa's size and weight is an advantage from a dead stop.  Your simply able to twist that throttle harder faster and earlier than you will on a ZX10.   IT's a theory anyway.

Modern tires being what they are, I do not think they are going to be the limiting factor.  I think the limit is going to be the ability to keep the front end below the horizon...

But It hasn't come up yet...  The 10's I have ran into on the street all THREE OF EM' have all been ridden by REAL PEOPLE...  With some Fuggin Brains in their heads...  No running for broke, no BS Stoplight drag racing...  GO Figure huh???

So all this fuggin Which bike is faster talk is not only just about fuggin old,   it's also about pointless...   It's not the bike...  It's the rider...

We have folks with Turbo's and 300 HP that still cannot break into the 9 second range...  All kinds of posing and bullshit out there...  Take it too the 1/4 and work it out, or STFU...  

Just my .02

I agree 100% on all points Rev... Well said.

COme on BT... please don't 'egg' Rev on.