Beloved Busa vs. ZX 10

[BulletTrain]

If you're quiet you can hear the foundation cracking, and oh what a fall it will be...

Ultimately you can mod yourself into the poor house but it will all come down to the bikes ability to hook up. The power has to be transferred to the pavement or all else fails.

The bottom line is, the 10r is far lighter than the Busa and, when the limit of tire adhesion is reached on both bikes, the 10r will still be far lighter than the Busa. Advantage, ZX-10r.

Steve

BAH! I still think that the Busa's size and weight is an advantage from a dead stop. Your simply able to twist that throttle harder faster and earlier than you will on a ZX10. IT's a theory anyway.

Modern tires being what they are, I do not think they are going to be the limiting factor. I think the limit is going to be the ability to keep the front end below the horizon...

But It hasn't come up yet... The 10's I have ran into on the street all THREE OF EM' have all been ridden by REAL PEOPLE... With some Fuggin Brains in their heads... No running for broke, no BS Stoplight drag racing... GO Figure huh???

So all this fuggin Which bike is faster talk is not only just about fuggin old, it's also about pointless... It's not the bike... It's the rider...

We have folks with Turbo's and 300 HP that still cannot break into the 9 second range... All kinds of posing and bullshit out there... Take it too the 1/4 and work it out, or STFU...

Just my .02

I agree 100% on all points Rev... Well said.

COme on BT... please don't 'egg' Rev on.

Yeah, I know... He'll be havin' to get a bigger Arai if I ain't careful.

 

[Got-Busa?]

Torque is a fantastic thing, my favourite thing about the busa, and a good reason for me to stick with it no matter what. I love my Busa.
Not that torque has much to do with things at the drags though, where you spend ALL your time in the very top end of the tacho. I'd say if you were relying on torque at all at the drags, you're shifting too low.
Totally different on the street though.
J,

Josh,

You are contradicting yourself and don't even realize it.

Weight and TORQUE is what keeps the BUSA at the head of the pack off the line and then it's superior AERODYNAMICS keep it pulling away!

Let me just quote a real world test between the BUSA and GSXR-1000 from the Summer 2004 Super Streetbike magazine.


The GSXR-1000 dynoed 169 RWHP and the BUSA only 174RWHP! On to the quote from the article!

"While both the GSX-R and the Hayabusa made close to the same horsepower, the two bikes' TORQUE outputs were miles apart. The GSX-R clocked in at 84.5 foot-pounds, which, as much as it is, pales in comparison to the 300cc-bigger Hayabusa's trucklike 105.2 foot-pounds of TORQUE. The 'Busa's bigger motor makes more power throughout its powerband- it has more "area under the power curve," so to speak. Peak power occurs at just one place in the rev band-but what's important is the total power delivered during a run. Here the 'Busa romps, with enough extra midrange grunt to overcome its 100-pound weight handicap and provide an extra 0.193 seconds and 2.077 mph at the far end of the quarter-mile."

Just for the record, they did the basic power upgrades to a Hayabusa and GSXR-1000 and the Busa won with a 8.953 @ 151.757 mph to the GSXR-1000 with a 9.146 @ 149.680 mph in the 1/4-mile! This was with the same professional rider (Larry Laye) riding both bikes.

With same weight, similar skill rider on both bikes the BUSA has the ability to still come out in front!

How many times must we continue to discuss this? Any questions?

 

[Aughtsix]

Let's not confuse an ability to launch with an ability to accelerate.

Yes, the Busa has more area under the curve so, all else being equal, it will pull - accelerate - harder. This says nothing about the ability to launch, but rather, what happens after the launch.

Steve

 

[Revlis]

Let's not confuse an ability to launch with an ability to accelerate.

Yes, the Busa has more area under the curve so, all else being equal, it will pull - accelerate - harder.  This says nothing about the ability to launch, but rather, what happens after the launch.

Steve

Agreed, so it's back to the rider...

 

[Aughtsix]

BAH!  I still think that the Busa's size and weight is an advantage from a dead stop.  Your simply able to twist that throttle harder faster and earlier than you will on a ZX10.   IT's a theory anyway.

Provided the weight is properly distributed, I would think.  Otherwise, extra weight is just sapping power by its resistance to motion.

It's going to require more energy to get the Busa rolling from a dead stop than for a 10r - simple physics.  That's why I would suppose it all boils down to the ability of either machine to hook up.

But I would agree completely that at this level of performance, it's ALL rider.  Of course, when the small guys beat us big guys we can always kick sand in their faces and steal their girlfriends...  

Steve



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[Aughtsix]

Any questions?

Yes...

What do you suppose would have happened if they'd tuned 5hp out of the Busa and stretched the Gixxer out to an equal wheelbase??

Geez you guys take this all soooo seriously...

Steve

 

[Blue Streak]

Ultimately you can mod yourself into the poor house but it will all come down to the bikes ability to hook up.  The power has to be transferred to the pavement or all else fails.  



Steve

With the tires avaliable today that is not an issue, There are streetbikes running in the 7.20's at over 200mph in the 1/4. You are also wrong about the torque, the busa's torque is what gets it off the line quicker than the liter bikes and helps it pull away. In your theory if the busa had less torque it would launch better.........haha good one.....the busa would be a dog out of the hole without its torque.

 

[Aughtsix]

With the tires avaliable today that is not an issue, There are streetbikes running in the 7.20's at over 200mph in the 1/4.

So you're saying that traction is never a concern? Really...

You are also wrong about the torque, the busa's torque is what gets it off the line quicker than the liter bikes and helps it pull away. In your theory if the busa had less torque it would launch better.........haha good one.....the busa would be a dog out of the hole without its torque. [/QUOTE]

You're not reading what I'm writing -- or one of us has had one beer too many.

The launch comes first - this is the initial process of bringing into motion a stationary object - acceleration comes second. I don't know if I can express this any other way.

And yes, I'm suggesting that less torque makes an easier launch - otherwise slipping the clutch wouldn't be a necessity.

Steve

 

[Blue Streak]

Yes less torque would make launching easier but not faster. You have to have torque in order for the bike to launch quick. Thats what the busa excells in, because of the torque it leaves so quick and allows for good 60' and 330' times (which are a big part of any drag race).

Yes traction is a concern but not as much as you make it out to be. I have a hard time believing that you could mod a zx10 enough to start having a traction problem with the right tire. Now a 500+hp turbo busa you might start having some traction problems at the track, but good luck building a zx10 enough to have traction problems with a Mickey MCR2.



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[willgetbusa]

Torque is a fantastic thing, my favourite thing about the busa, and a good reason for me to stick with it no matter what. I love my Busa.
Not that torque has much to do with things at the drags though, where you spend ALL your time in the very top end of the tacho. I'd say if you were relying on torque at all at the drags, you're shifting too low.
Totally different on the street though.
J,

Josh,

You are contradicting yourself and don't even realize it.  

Weight and TORQUE is what keeps the BUSA at the head of the pack off the line and then it's superior AERODYNAMICS keep it pulling away!

Let me just quote a real world test between the BUSA and GSXR-1000 from the Summer 2004 Super Streetbike magazine.


The GSXR-1000 dynoed 169 RWHP and the BUSA only 174RWHP!  On to the quote from the article!

"While both the GSX-R and the Hayabusa made close to the same horsepower, the two bikes' TORQUE outputs were miles apart.  The GSX-R clocked in at 84.5 foot-pounds, which, as much as it is, pales in comparison to the 300cc-bigger Hayabusa's trucklike 105.2 foot-pounds of TORQUE.  The 'Busa's bigger motor makes more power throughout its powerband- it has more "area under the power curve," so to speak.  Peak power occurs at just one place in the rev band-but what's important is the total power delivered during a run.  Here the 'Busa romps, with enough extra midrange grunt to overcome its 100-pound weight handicap and provide an extra 0.193 seconds and 2.077 mph at the far end of the quarter-mile."

Just for the record, they did the basic power upgrades to a Hayabusa and GSXR-1000 and the Busa won with a 8.953 @ 151.757 mph to the GSXR-1000 with a 9.146 @ 149.680 mph in the 1/4-mile!  This was with the same professional rider (Larry Laye) riding both bikes.

With same weight, similar skill rider on both bikes the BUSA has the ability to still come out in front!

How many times must we continue to discuss this?  Any questions?

good post!

the gix1k weighs 5 pounds less (dry weight) than the zx10, has about 10 less hp than the zx10 and both bikes have the same torque output. if it was the 10 that went against the busa in that comparison, it would've been dead even imo.

btw, sport rider also did a 1/4 mile comparison of the liters on the same day with the same temp., same track, etc. and the results are:

zx10= 9.92 sec
r1= 9.93
gsx1k= 9.96
1000rr= didn't break 9 sec.

therefore, with results that close, proper tuning, rider skill, launching, traction and a little bit of luck all play a role in a race.

okay, i'm done beating down on this dead horse, time to spend some quality riding on the bus. you fellas have fun debating about this 'old' topic.

 

[bs72069]

Torque is a fantastic thing, my favourite thing about the busa, and a good reason for me to stick with it no matter what. I love my Busa.
Not that torque has much to do with things at the drags though, where you spend ALL your time in the very top end of the tacho. I'd say if you were relying on torque at all at the drags, you're shifting too low.
Totally different on the street though.
J,

Josh,

You are contradicting yourself and don't even realize it.  

Weight and TORQUE is what keeps the BUSA at the head of the pack off the line and then it's superior AERODYNAMICS keep it pulling away!

Let me just quote a real world test between the BUSA and GSXR-1000 from the Summer 2004 Super Streetbike magazine.


The GSXR-1000 dynoed 169 RWHP and the BUSA only 174RWHP!  On to the quote from the article!

"While both the GSX-R and the Hayabusa made close to the same horsepower, the two bikes' TORQUE outputs were miles apart.  The GSX-R clocked in at 84.5 foot-pounds, which, as much as it is, pales in comparison to the 300cc-bigger Hayabusa's trucklike 105.2 foot-pounds of TORQUE.  The 'Busa's bigger motor makes more power throughout its powerband- it has more "area under the power curve," so to speak.  Peak power occurs at just one place in the rev band-but what's important is the total power delivered during a run.  Here the 'Busa romps, with enough extra midrange grunt to overcome its 100-pound weight handicap and provide an extra 0.193 seconds and 2.077 mph at the far end of the quarter-mile."

Just for the record, they did the basic power upgrades to a Hayabusa and GSXR-1000 and the Busa won with a 8.953 @ 151.757 mph to the GSXR-1000 with a 9.146 @ 149.680 mph in the 1/4-mile!  This was with the same professional rider (Larry Laye) riding both bikes.

With same weight, similar skill rider on both bikes the BUSA has the ability to still come out in front!

How many times must we continue to discuss this?  Any questions?

good post!

the gix1k weighs 5 pounds less (dry weight) than the zx10, has about 10 less hp than the zx10 and both bikes have the same torque output.  if it was the 10 that went against the busa in that comparison, it would've been dead even imo.  

btw, sport rider also did a 1/4 mile comparison of the liters on the same day with the same temp., same track, etc. and the results are:

zx10= 9.92 sec
r1= 9.93
gsx1k= 9.96
1000rr= didn't break 9 sec.

therefore, with results that close, proper tuning, rider skill, launching, traction and a little bit of luck all play a role in a race.  

okay, i'm done beating down on this dead horse, time to spend some quality riding on the bus.  you fellas have fun debating about this 'old' topic.  

Here comes the magazine qouteing. This subject just been settled by Sport Rider magazine and Super Streetbike and let just throw in Motorcyclist to, when Kieth Dennis did a 9.88 sec run on the Busa. So no need to continue about it.

Why not email a magazine to see if they do a side by side run with the same professional rider. Like a sibling rivary free for all. and the contenders can be the Busa, 05 GSXR1000, ZX12R, and the ZX10R. And the competion could include 1/8, 1/4, and top speed runs. Plus the bike be left completely stock except for the top speed run where it could be derestricted.

 

[Got-Busa?]

Torque is a fantastic thing, my favourite thing about the busa, and a good reason for me to stick with it no matter what. I love my Busa.
Not that torque has much to do with things at the drags though, where you spend ALL your time in the very top end of the tacho. I'd say if you were relying on torque at all at the drags, you're shifting too low.
Totally different on the street though.
J,

Josh,

You are contradicting yourself and don't even realize it.  

Weight and TORQUE is what keeps the BUSA at the head of the pack off the line and then it's superior AERODYNAMICS keep it pulling away!

Let me just quote a real world test between the BUSA and GSXR-1000 from the Summer 2004 Super Streetbike magazine.


The GSXR-1000 dynoed 169 RWHP and the BUSA only 174RWHP!  On to the quote from the article!

"While both the GSX-R and the Hayabusa made close to the same horsepower, the two bikes' TORQUE outputs were miles apart.  The GSX-R clocked in at 84.5 foot-pounds, which, as much as it is, pales in comparison to the 300cc-bigger Hayabusa's trucklike 105.2 foot-pounds of TORQUE.  The 'Busa's bigger motor makes more power throughout its powerband- it has more "area under the power curve," so to speak.  Peak power occurs at just one place in the rev band-but what's important is the total power delivered during a run.  Here the 'Busa romps, with enough extra midrange grunt to overcome its 100-pound weight handicap and provide an extra 0.193 seconds and 2.077 mph at the far end of the quarter-mile."

Just for the record, they did the basic power upgrades to a Hayabusa and GSXR-1000 and the Busa won with a 8.953 @ 151.757 mph to the GSXR-1000 with a 9.146 @ 149.680 mph in the 1/4-mile!  This was with the same professional rider (Larry Laye) riding both bikes.

With same weight, similar skill rider on both bikes the BUSA has the ability to still come out in front!

How many times must we continue to discuss this?  Any questions?

good post!

the gix1k weighs 5 pounds less (dry weight) than the zx10, has about 10 less hp than the zx10 and both bikes have the same torque output.  if it was the 10 that went against the busa in that comparison, it would've been dead even imo.  

btw, sport rider also did a 1/4 mile comparison of the liters on the same day with the same temp., same track, etc. and the results are:

zx10= 9.92 sec
r1= 9.93
gsx1k= 9.96
1000rr= didn't break 9 sec.

therefore, with results that close, proper tuning, rider skill, launching, traction and a little bit of luck all play a role in a race.  

okay, i'm done beating down on this dead horse, time to spend some quality riding on the bus.  you fellas have fun debating about this 'old' topic.  

It's funny you say that since we continue to beat the magazine racing to death they have that scenario.

Before they tuned the Busa/GSXR-1000 at the track the Busa only put out 169RWHP and ran a 9.011 @ 151.075 still faster than the GSXR-1000 posted up.

Then the GSXR-1000 was tuned to 169RWHP for the runs previously posted. Show me a ZX-10 that is posting 179RWHP with just the basic mods because I am yet to see it.

If you are talking SS1000 moddified bikes, they are FAR FROM STOCK! They put down well into the 170's maybe even 180RWHP.

 

[Aughtsix]

Yes less torque would make launching easier but not faster.

Exactly what I've been saying all along - less torque would make a good launch an easier proposition.

You have to have torque in order for the bike to launch quick. [/QUOTE]

I believe you're still confusing launching with acceleration. The mountainous torque of the Busa is what allows it to accelerate so quickly - to pull so hard AFTER it's launched.

Blue - Let me ask you a simple question: Do you slip your clutch, even just a little, when you launch? If so, why??

Steve