Biden sends you money to the Palestiniase

[JeffSyh]

I don't think I'd be referencing the plight of a beleaguered people at the hands of a fanatical regime such as the nazi party who murdered millions of people to the Israeli nation.

The war in the middle east has been waged ever since mankind has been around-long before organized religion and WW2.

Israel is a nation, not a religion, they have been plagued by the Hamas terrorist group for many decades. The biggest difference between them and other nations is the Hamas occupy a region close to their borders within Palestine...the PLO (Palestine Liberation Organization) were and still are a well documented terror group.

What is going on in that region is more contained than what went on in Iraq, Syria, Libya and Afghanistan all of which had NATO support and funding along with proxy support and funding by Iran, Russia and China...

Who do you think funds the Hamas and PLO?

It's quick for a nation to turn brutal through brainwashing if any country right now is close to becoming nazi Germany it would isreal in my opinion, they have the power, resources and backing of their people to become a brutal fascist state. I would say the funding of most groups comes from varying countries for reasons we don't understand. But the main one would be Iran, but who supplies Iran? Russia? China?

 

[Bumblebee]

It's quick for a nation to turn brutal through brainwashing if any country right now is close to becoming nazi Germany it would isreal in my opinion, they have the power, resources and backing of their people to become a brutal fascist state. I would say the funding of most groups comes from varying countries for reasons we don't understand. But the main one would be Iran, but who supplies Iran? Russia? China?

This conflict has almost become a throw-back to the ancient "Holy Wars" between the Christians and Moors...the Gaza Strip area has been a contested piece of rock and sand for decades and more blood has been spilt over that than what ever should have been.

Israel is a pretty laid back country in many aspects but years of being embedded in a war zone have made them very vigilant and capable. Imagine if Mexico were a warring faction against the US how vigilant and defensive the US would become.

The Hamas are funded through Iran which is a staunch opposition to the US. This is why the Israeli military is equipped with so much American equipment.

I only did exercises with Israeli forces but I will tell you this-if I was in combat and needed a unit to cover my 6 or to assist in an assault and I heard an Israeli unit was going to be doing it, I'd rest happy knowing so.

The world is a crazy place when you are out in it and seeing all the things going on first hand...I'm certainly glad to not be there now.

 

[Mythos]

I think you may be looking at this through the "those terrorists are crazed maniacs" paradigm. That is a Hollywood version of reality. Desperate people do act in desperation. But no group or state would benefit from exploding a nuclear weapon in a major western city. Osama Bin Laden found out a major terror strike has the opposite effect to what you might think. It just gives the people in power an excuse to issue "terminate with extreme prejudice" orders.

You're half right, I do believe terrorist are desperate, at least the ones that do the grunt work. Terrorists aren't crazy though, they are fanatics. Being desperate fanatics is what makes them so dangerous. I'm not willing to brush aside the danger of any terrorist organizations acquiring nuclear weapons even if they don't have the ability to maintain them longterm. Bin Laden was eventually killed at a huge cost to this country. I'm not willing to brush aside the possibility that some other terrorist leader might do something similar or worse and cost our country dearly again. Any person, country, group whatever that launches a nuclear weapon will set off a counterattack and that could set off a chain reaction of counterattacks from other countries. That's what we fear from the countries that already have nuclear arsenals but hopefully those countries have common sense enough to respect mutual destruction. I'm not confident a terrorist leader will have the same common sense we do. I'm sure Bin Laden knew he was going to be a target after commanding the destruction of the twin towers and the other airline skyjackings but that didn't stop him. It just goes to show that even the top leaders of terrorist organizations will take incredible risks with their own lives to achieve their goals.

 

[fallenarch]

You're half right, I do believe terrorist are desperate, at least the ones that do the grunt work. Terrorists aren't crazy though, they are fanatics. Being desperate fanatics is what makes them so dangerous. I'm not willing to brush aside the danger of any terrorist organizations acquiring nuclear weapons even if they don't have the ability to maintain them longterm. Bin Laden was eventually killed at a huge cost to this country. I'm not willing to brush aside the possibility that some other terrorist leader might do something similar or worse and cost our country dearly again. Any person, country, group whatever that launches a nuclear weapon will set off a counterattack and that could set off a chain reaction of counterattacks from other countries. That's what we fear from the countries that already have nuclear arsenals but hopefully those countries have common sense enough to respect mutual destruction. I'm not confident a terrorist leader will have the same common sense we do. I'm sure Bin Laden knew he was going to be a target after commanding the destruction of the twin towers and the other airline skyjackings but that didn't stop him. It just goes to show that even the top leaders of terrorist organizations will take incredible risks with their own lives to achieve their goals.

You are still working from the premise we're smart & stable and they aren't, lol! It is extremely hard for Joe average terrorist to get a deployable nuclear weapon. The western world has managed to keep them in the proper hands for many years now. The most likely terrorist strike with a nuclear weapon is a renegade Russian/Chinese/Pakistani/Indian/Saudi military group gone rogue. Even a Trumper in the military going postal.

Nukes are difficult to get and make a terrorist group target number one. Hacking is cheap and can be just as impactful in making a point. This last hack just went after gas. What if they went into a major bank and emptied everyone's account?

 

[michael parris heuberger]

There are several nuclear states in the middle east. Saudi Arabia probably has them through oil agreements with Pakistan. Iran may or may not have them. Interestingly, nukes are a pain in the arse to have. The maintenance costs are crazy, and the risk of a mistake is grave. No one can actually explode one without severe consequences (like N. Korea). So the drain on a smaller country's resources to possess a nuclear weapon that is strategically un-usable is a bit silly.

I don't know what you mean by "stable". Trump was as reckless as it gets (i.e. pulling out of SALT and the Iran agreements, and the world watched the leader of the "arsenal of democracy" lead an insurrection) and Netanyahu is in all kinds of hot water from looming indictments and he is unable to establish a governing coalition.

I think we have to support Israel, but we need to reel them in so they stop oppressing their neighbors while claiming the world wants to do away with them. The Palestinians deserve a homeland just like the Jews do. This is why no thinking president has acknowledged Jerusalem as the capital. In moving our embassy to Jerusalem, Trump basically said to Israel you are free to do what you want.

Remember, this is not the first time we had the rocket problem. Previous Presidents told Israel to not escalate the situation and then we paid Hammas to knock it off or we let Israel off its leash. A very cheap solution in the grand scheme of things.

Hi Have you read about what happened back in 1948? And way before that?

 

[fallenarch]

Hi Have you read about what happened back in 1948? And way before that?

Yes extensively. I studied the Middle East in school and as a history buff. I would not call myself an expert by any means, but our collective knowledge of this area is lacking. While the ME has never been exactly peaceful, the epic wars we see today were mainly started when the western powers began dividing up the world after victory in WWII. We drew boundaries that were essentially ignorant of tribal divisions. It turned a low-grade tension into an all-out blood-fest.

 

[Bumblebee]

Yes extensively. I studied the Middle East in school and as a history buff. I would not call myself an expert by any means, but our collective knowledge of this area is lacking. While the ME has never been exactly peaceful, the epic wars we see today were mainly started when the western powers began dividing up the world after victory in WWII. We drew boundaries that were essentially ignorant of tribal divisions. It turned a low-grade tension into an all-out blood-fest.

This has been going on ever since man started sailing ships to foreign lands...it happened in North America and all over the world.

The trend to impose western culture on the rest of the world has had very destructive results.

 

[mark3evo]

everyone watches and comments on these 2 small countries slugging it out
but Elephant in the room....
China colonizing South Pacific islands and then claiming the sea around it... no one stops them.
China and US are intertwined with trade no one wants to upset this status quo
At some point China will take Formosa / Taiwan

 

[michael parris heuberger]

everyone watches and comments on these 2 small countries slugging it out
but Elephant in the room....
China colonizing South Pacific islands and then claiming the sea around it... no one stops them.
China and US are intertwined with trade no one wants to upset this status quo
At some point China will take Formosa / Taiwan Hi

Hi. I know, I think he has Hunter and Joe Biden in there back pocket

 

[Bumblebee]

everyone watches and comments on these 2 small countries slugging it out
but Elephant in the room....
China colonizing South Pacific islands and then claiming the sea around it... no one stops them.
China and US are intertwined with trade no one wants to upset this status quo
At some point China will take Formosa / Taiwan

China and most of the world is intertwined with trade....it would be hard to stop their progress and expansion without declaring war on them...I'll bet the list is pretty short of the people who would want to sign that declaration...

 

[mark3evo]

China and most of the world is intertwined with trade....it would be hard to stop their progress and expansion without declaring war on them...I'll bet the list is pretty short of the people who would want to sign that declaration...

2 differences
China policy is on the long haul they planned decades in advance
US / EU policy are as long as the incumbent is in charge Trump/Biden policy shifts 180 degrees

 

[Bumblebee]

2 differences
China policy is on the long haul they planned decades in advance
US / EU policy are as long as the incumbent is in charge Trump/Biden policy shifts 180 degrees

I guess another thing to add is the leader of China can be there for life and they are a communist regime so whatever he says basically goes whereas:

The US and EU leaders still have to work with their respective parties, they as individuals can't do whatever they want.

China will continue to do whatever they like and they know war is the only deterrent. Something which nobody wants.

 

[mark3evo]

with near 8 billion peole on earth maybe we need another bigger pandemic - get back to 4 billion when i was a lad

 

[Zerks]

I think you may be looking at this through the "those terrorists are crazed maniacs" paradigm. That is a Hollywood version of reality. Desperate people do act in desperation. But no group or state would benefit from exploding a nuclear weapon in a major western city. Osama Bin Laden found out a major terror strike has the opposite effect to what you might think. It just gives the people in power an excuse to issue "terminate with extreme prejudice" orders.

The real weapon now is hacking. That's what we should be worried about.

Osama didn't find out anything... in 2006 it came out that our agencies were informed by foreign intelligence agencies that the USA was going to be attacked. What did the CIA, FBI and others do about it? Nothing... they let it happen... 9-11 was a crime... a crime that has a lasting impact in terms of how our rights and freedoms are either preserved, or not... The truth has become meaningless.

Speaking of hacking... enough dots here to set the record straight.

Complete 911 Timeline: Foreign Intelligence Agency Attack ...
historycommons.org/timeline.jsp?timeline=complete_911_timeline&warning_signs:_specific_cases=foreignIntelligence
The 9/11 Commission later will note that at this time, an unnamed foreign intelligence"service report that [al-Qaeda deputy leader] Abu Zubaida [is] considering mounting terrorist attacks in the United States, after postponing possible operations in Europe. No targets, timing or method of attack [are] provided."

What the CIA knew before 9/11: New details - POLITICO
What the CIA knew before 9/11: New details
Tenet and his post-9/11 successors—Porter Goss, Michael Hayden and acting director Michael Morell (sometimes called the "wartime directors")—say the techniques were a necessary evil, justified by the context of the times. It was an article of faith at the CIA that the United States was about to be struck again in a "second wave" attack.​

September 11 intelligence before the attacks - Wikipedia

September 11 intelligence before the attacks - Wikipedia
September 11 intelligence before the attacks. In the aftermath of the September 11 attacks on New York City and Washington, D.C., by the al-Qaeda terrorist group, a number of investigations were conducted to determine what intelligence may have existed before the attacks and whether this information was ignored by authorities.​

How U.S. Intelligence Misjudged the Growing Threat Behind 9/11
How U.S. Intelligence Misjudged the Growing Threat Behind 9/11
How U.S. Intelligence Misjudged the Growing Threat Behind 9/11 Among the missteps: lack of intel-sharing between agencies, tepid responses to earlier attacks and a failure to grasp the magnitude ...​

Government Terrorist Trackers Before 9/11: Higher Ups ...
Government Terrorist Trackers Before 9/11: Higher Ups Wouldn’t Listen
The road to 9/11 was littered with opportunities that the United States missed to cripple al Qaeda and to avert the attacks of September 11, 2001.Throughout the 1990s, small dedicated teams of ...​

Why Did U.s. Intelligence Fail September 11th? | Looking ...

Why Did U.s. Intelligence Fail September 11th? | Looking For Answers | FRONTLINE | PBS
He warns that the regulations were put in place for good reasons and should not "be thrown out just because of this one terrible intelligence failure." This interview was conducted mid-September 2001.​

The USA PATRIOT Act Was Planned Before 9/11 — Global Issues
The USA PATRIOT Act Was Planned Before 9/11
The USA PATRIOT Act - the so-called "Uniting and Strengthening America by Providing Appropriate Tools Required to Intercept and Obstruct Terrorism Act of 2001," a.k.a. the USAPA -- was enacted in the immediate wake of 9/11, riding a wave of fear that spread over the nation. This Act has caused much concern amongst civil rights advocates.​

 

[Zerks]

I guess another thing to add is the leader of China can be there for life and they are a communist regime so whatever he says basically goes whereas:

The US and EU leaders still have to work with their respective parties, they as individuals can't do whatever they want.

China will continue to do whatever they like and they know war is the only deterrent. Something which nobody wants.

We have also understood the power of arms for decades.
China doesn't want a war with us or any other super power... the old blackmail, bribes, infiltration and spies has exceeded all the CCP could hope for in terms of getting control of countries they want to dominate.

Why would China want to mess with us? One US sub with how many nuclear warheads could devastate how many CCP targets? Is it 32 rockets with multiple warheads on our most powerful subs? Whatever it is... I believe it is still the stealthiest source of deterrence we have that China can't do much about. Even our own Pentagon leaders don't know exactly where our subs are at any particular time. Just like real estate... the right location, location, location... has value... and all the players know it.