Blown Head Gasket

[ThrlSkr]

I dropped my '06 on its right side a few weeks ago. Using Xtra long frame sliders, so there was no damage to the fairing. On the way home i stopped in traffic and smelled antifreeze. Coolant was overflowing and the temp needle was in the red. As long as i was moving, the needle stayed normal.

This bike has overheated 3 times on me since i had it. Twice in stop n go traffic in the dead of the summer. Once because of a bad radiator cap.

Long story short, i got it to the shop and they cant find anything wrong. checked the cap, water pump, replaced both the Tstat valve and radiator switch but it still leaks antifreeze.

They checked with Suzuki tech support and are now suspecting a bad head gasket.

Can anyone shed any light for me here? I am the second owner of this bike and it only has 13000 miles on it. Services regularly and ridden responsibly. So far im out $600+ and they dont even know what is wrong with it . . .

They are hoping that it is only a gasket because if anything is cracked i will need a new motor . . .

Thanks in advance

 

[Ezduzit]

aboard, some of the fellas and ladies will chime in with some help!

 

[Rayabusa0818]

Welcome aboard...I hope nothing is cracked, but I have never know a blown head gasket to turn out well...good luck.

 

[Mr Bogus]

when you say it still leaks antifreeze do you mean the level is dropping or you can see it on the ground?

I have not dealt with these specifically but so far I have seen 3 heads with cracks in the intake ports (Omar was one of them) and the only head gasket issues were turbo bikes..

A "dye" check on the cooling system will show cracked ports. A special dye goes in the coolant and the bike is run for a period of time (usually till the coolant level drops) and then the inspection begins with a UV light.. This is an automotive technique used for diagnosis and not sure if the bike community has adopted it yet however..

Sounds like they probably checked for the obvious already (hoses, radiator, waterpump)

Oh and welcome aboard!

 

[mike1180]

Welcome


Can you describe how you know it is leaking?
Is the level just going down or is there a visible leak somewhere?

 

[ThrlSkr]

Thanks all. Glad to be abord.

It is visibly dropping antifreeze. I can see it on the ground. They say the same at the shop. Not only is my bike NOT a turbo bike it has not been rode in a way that would even cause this. I was hit by a taxi in the summer and it took a harder whollop than being dropped by me and this didnt happen.

 

[Mr Bogus]

well not to state the obvious... wtf is it leaking from then?

here is a trick to find "elusive" leaks.. often coolant/oil etc will leak, follow a casting seam, mating surface or a gasket and hide the source of the real leak..

plain old white foot powder.. find what you think is the source of the leak, give the area a good shot of the drying white foot powder and run the motor.. you will see the stuff wet down and you should be able to determine the 'origin' of the leak..

take your time and start looking... surprised the shop did not find the leak if it is external.. any other shops around you can try?

 

[mike1180]

If there is a leak the system will not build up pressure and that could explain why it overheats, except when it is moving. (besides being low on coolant.)
The shop sounds like it wasn't looking for the leak but was just replacing common stuff.
I agree with Mr Bogus, find the leak.
Take off your 2 side fairings, hose it down, let it dry and start her up and watch.

 

[Spudley]

You can diagnose your headgasket issue. You need a coolant system pressure tester, and an adapter for small imports. Pressurize the coolant system until you've reached about 14psi, and stop there. Watch the needle. If the needle starts to move, you're leaching pressure off somewhere. This will also be a good time to look around the perimeter for signs of coolant. Check the hose unions, check the pump exterior, check the radiator fins, and check the seam of the head all the way around. There are interior, and exterior head gasket leaks. Not to mention, if you have a crack in the head somewhere.

The reason an engine overheats, basically, is that the pressure in the cooling system isn't stabilizing. That is caused by a leak in pressure somewhere. Pressure controls the boiling point of the coolant / water mix. Coolant raises the boiling point slightly, but is actually an anti-freeze element, not an anti-boil. Water, itself, is by-far a better cooling liquid than the mix we run. So you have a breach somewhere. I'd investigate the simple stuff before I go tearing a head off. The dye treatment is a great indicator for head cracks, and headgasket malfunctions. The rest you can do on your own.

Pressure up the system to no more than 15psi. Check the hoses, gasket seams, radiator fins and seams, I mean everywhere. Watch the needle on the gauge. Pull the spark plugs, look for rust on the last two, or three threads near the electrode. This is just a basic investigation. Extensive, expensive stuff can best be left to the last. Take a look and report back. Also, how long has your dealer tech been diagnosing, and turning wrenches ????............is he 19 with a year, 28 with ten, or longer ???....

A lot of guys will immediately go to the information-sending units, when the system simply isn't within parameters / limits in the first place.

 

[ThrlSkr]

Thanks everyone for the thorough, fast feedback. I am going to pick up the bike tomorrow, try some of this stuff and if I cant figure it out, try a more experienced mechanic.

These guys claim that they they cannot locate the leak and the only other possibility is the head gasket. I just cannot believe that I have blown a head gasket at this stage of the game, so I am glad that I posted here and got such good responses.

Will let you all know what happens in a day or so.

 

[Delgado]

I'm not a technician but wouldn't the coolant mix with the oil if the gasket was shot? If thats the case, just look at the oil and see if its changed to a milky type substance.

 

[Wag]

Kai, you took the words right out of my mouth.

--Wag--

 

[GMbusa]

If your near Virginia, I can help you do the head gasket. It's not that difficult.

 

[mike1180]

I'm not a technician but wouldn't the coolant mix with the oil if the gasket was shot? If thats the case, just look at the oil and see if its changed to a milky type substance.

The gasket leak could be such that the coolant simply leaks to the outside.
It could also mix with the oil, but doesn't have to be.

 

[Spudley]

The gasket leak could be such that the coolant simply leaks to the outside.
It could also mix with the oil, but doesn't have to be.

Exactly. If you're only losing coolant to the combustion chamber then you'll get very little smoke as a result unless there is a large amount of water / coolant leaking into the chamber. Also, if that small amount is making it's way to the oil it will vaporize when the engine heats up getting sucked out of the crankcase by the positive crankcase ventilation. If a significant amount gets into the oil, it would appear milky, but that is also an indication that the rings (at least one cylinder) is on the way out, or overwhelmed by the large amount of water getting in.

You can also test the water for combustion residue as this would indicate the presence of a chamber / cooling system connection.

We're currently just looking for a leak of pressure in the cooling system. One thing at a time.

 

[Mr Bogus]

kind of scanning the other replies...

you have an external leak.. Yea!!! that means you can find it..

Oil mix... yes or no, depends what the leak is and where it comes from.. most likely No..

Pressurize the system : absolutely the best method IF you have access to a decent pressure tester (you can go to double the cap pressure rating but be aware that if any hoses are weak, they are toast..) I try to stay at rated pressure and no more than 1.5 times rated.. (you can cause a blowout) the leak is happening at operating pressure, so why cause more issues..

Best thing is a bit of patience and good eyes at this point.. you are way ahead when the coolant is hitting the ground and not going out the tailpipe.. (but not out of the woods)..

FIND THE LEAK FIRST.. fix and run, hope that is the only issue..

 

[ThrlSkr]

GMBusa,
I am in NY, but would gladly make the trip for your assistance . . . will keep you posted.

Thanks again to everyone else . . .

 

[Tufbusa]

With all the mechanics on board here I'm surprised no one has mentioned the leak is likely coming from the overflow tube attached to the water bottle. I have an 06 busa in my garage now that has the same symptoms. Most likely a head gasket problem since a cracked head on a busa is almost unheard of unless you have really overheated that puppy when it was low on water. And from what you have told us, you may have began with a leaking head gasket and by overheating the engine without enough water in the system to keep the head wet, now you may have a cracked head to go along with a leaking gasket?

My guess is you have an internal leak in the gasket allowing exhaust gasses to enter the cooling system. My suggestion would be to take the side panel off so you can visually watch the water bottle. If you have an enternal leak in the gasket allowing the gasses to enter the cooling system, as the engine begins to overheat the pressure builds in the radiator and as soon as the pressure exceeds the 1.1 bar pressure the cap will open allowing the gasses to escape through the water bottle. You can actually watch the bubbles escaping through the water.

Personally, I won't change a head gasket unless I deck the head and the block. Without decking, chances are good you'll develope another leak in the same place.

Good Luck on your repairs. The bike I have in the garage went to the dealer before I got it. After spending a few hundred bucks the mechanic told him he was probably just leaning it over to far on left hand corners causing the water to excape through the overflow tube.

 

[Tufbusa]

I dropped my '06 on its right side a few weeks ago. Using Xtra long frame sliders, so there was no damage to the fairing.

Thanks in advance

One other pointer I can give you! The 06 I have in the garage went through a lowside crash with the standard length frame slider and ended up with a broken motor mount. When the bike hit the dirt, it flipped and tumbled to a stop breaking every piece of plastic on the bike.

With the extra long sliders if you have a crash, it can actually break the motormount right off the frame. During an otherwise easy crash, if the bike slides off the pavement into the dirt, the long slider will dig in usually causing the bike to flip and tumble.

After the headgasket is replaced in the 06 busa I have, it will have vortex stubby sliders that only poke out about a half inch past the plastic.

 

[mike04busa]

If you have a problem finding the leak I'am in ct if you wanted to take a ride some sat. to look at it.Sound's like you got some good info to go by here.Pm me if interested.Mike.