Blown Head Gasket

[DEMMYM]

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[Delgado]

With all the mechanics on board here I'm surprised no one has mentioned the leak is likely coming from the overflow tube attached to the water bottle.

Could a faulty fan cause this to happen as well? or not really

 

[peanutrobber]

I was just going to ask if the fan is cycling on and off. This would cause it to overheat when not moving or in stop and go traffic and in turn would leak coolant from the overflow. While you are riding at speed it is automatically forcing air through the radiator. I would start there.

 

[Mr Bogus]

one sort of needs to assume a guy can see coolant leaking out of the overflow tube and the catch can would be full..

He has coolant hitting the ground, the first thing you do is find the source.. then you can find the cause.. if the thing is leaking combustion gas into the cooling system, a simple "whiff" of the coolant reservoir with a simple 2 gas analyzer will show HC counts in the triple digits.. This however is where you need a competent shop with an IQ over 20..

Diagnosis is where your choice of shops pays off... the shotgun approach to repair is the system used by beginners... Oh just tear it apart and replace everything.. only to have it still broken..

Find source of coolant leak
determine reason for leak (it aint rocket science)

 

[ThrlSkr]

I was just going to ask if the fan is cycling on and off. This would cause it to overheat when not moving or in stop and go traffic and in turn would leak coolant from the overflow. While you are riding at speed it is automatically forcing air through the radiator. I would start there.

So far it seems to overheat at start-up before the fan has had a chance to cycle. Will have the other shop take a look at this too.

Thus far they say that it drops antifreeze because it is overheating and the only reason left they can determine would be a fault in the head gasket.

I moved the bike a couple of hours ago, will know more when i talk to the head mechanic at the other shop. I explained to the mechanic this morning that this was not a regular occurence with Busas and discussed pressure testing and using dye.

They dont have the pressure equipment and he didnt seem to know much about using the dye. I am confident i made the right choice in moving it. Will know more on monday.

 

[Mr Bogus]

does it every physically boil? or the gauge is just reading high? (gauges can be off by a lot)
the fan does cycle and bring the temp down?

and yes, sounds like the shop you had it at was a bit lacking on equipment..

 

[Spudley]

does it every physically boil? or the gauge is just reading high? (gauges can be off by a lot)
the fan does cycle and bring the temp down?

and yes, sounds like the shop you had it at was a bit lacking on equipment..

Now, we're getting down to brass tacks...... overheating, or what looks like overheating could be as simple as pinching all the hose clamps, and replacing the cap. A pegged needle could be just a faulty coolant temp sensor.

 

[Mr Bogus]

Now, we're getting down to brass tacks...... overheating, or what looks like overheating could be as simple as pinching all the hose clamps, and replacing the cap. A pegged needle could be just a faulty coolant temp sensor.

yep, troubleshooting over the net is harder than over a phone.. go through a lot of this that and the other to find out that, Oh yea, we had to block off a dozen tubes in the radiator... (btdt)

 

[kjcili]

i'm gonna say you're not out the $600, cuz if they charged you that and the problem still isn't fixed, then you need to either get your money back or MAKE them resolve the problem. I know for a fact, being an automotive technician myself, if I tell a customer they have a certain problem and my recommendation doesn't fix it, it's my azz.

on to your initial problem, is your oil starting to look "milky" at all?

 

[ThrlSkr]

does it every physically boil? or the gauge is just reading high? (gauges can be off by a lot)
the fan does cycle and bring the temp down?

and yes, sounds like the shop you had it at was a bit lacking on equipment..

Yes, it physically boils over and spills out of the overflow. according to the shop, if the radiator cap is off, it will quickly boil over and out the radiator before the fan has time to cycle or bike even warms up.

The gauge will read high unless I am moving constantly. Goes all the way to the redline.

 

[ThrlSkr]

i'm gonna say you're not out the $600, cuz if they charged you that and the problem still isn't fixed, then you need to either get your money back or MAKE them resolve the problem. I know for a fact, being an automotive technician myself, if I tell a customer they have a certain problem and my recommendation doesn't fix it, it's my azz.

on to your initial problem, is your oil starting to look "milky" at all?

So far, no issues with oil color, which is something I brought up to the shop, not the other way around . . .

 

[Mr Bogus]

So far, no issues with oil color, which is something I brought up to the shop, not the other way around . . .

the oil cooler was not the point.. it is not unusual at all for leaking head gasket issues or cracked heads to leak coolant into the crankcase.. makes a nice frothy mess of the lubrication oil..

 

[Delgado]

the oil cooler was not the point.. it is not unusual at all for leaking head gasket issues or cracked heads to leak coolant into the crankcase.. makes a nice frothy mess of the lubrication oil..

Think you read his post wrong

 

[GMbusa]

Is this situation possible? Here's a scenario. The bike falls on the left side, the top comes off the overflow and empties. Bike gets righted and restarted hot. Engine sucks big pocket of air in and cause the cooling system to effectivly shutdown due to no coolant movement.

Maybe all the bike needs is a burping of the system. Check ALL you hoses and connections. Look for any signs of seepage. If wet areas are present already, wipe clean and recheck with the bike running. Could be something simple.

 

[mike1180]

Is this situation possible? Here's a scenario. The bike falls on the left side, the top comes off the overflow and empties. Bike gets righted and restarted hot. Engine sucks big pocket of air in and cause the cooling system to effectivly shutdown due to no coolant movement.

Maybe all the bike needs is a burping of the system. Check ALL you hoses and connections. Look for any signs of seepage. If wet areas are present already, wipe clean and recheck with the bike running. Could be something simple.

I think you are right.
Strange it happened right after he dropped it.


I would try and replace all of the old coolant.
Drain it out and put in new, and get the air out according to the manual ( slowly swing the bike left then right to bleed the air.
Top up the coolant. Start the engine and then repeat, adding fluid each time, until all the air is gone.)
It may just have air in the cooling system and that could cause the symptoms you have stated.

 

[ThrlSkr]

Is this situation possible? Here's a scenario. The bike falls on the left side, the top comes off the overflow and empties. Bike gets righted and restarted hot. Engine sucks big pocket of air in and cause the cooling system to effectivly shutdown due to no coolant movement.

Maybe all the bike needs is a burping of the system. Check ALL you hoses and connections. Look for any signs of seepage. If wet areas are present already, wipe clean and recheck with the bike running. Could be something simple.

Ok, I will start there, because this did only start after I dropped it. Not sure if it would make a difference, but I dropped it on the right side . . . Cant remember how long it was parked, so I cant say for sure if it was hot or not. Hoping to get this righted fast enough to head to FL after the 1st . . .

 

[memorex]

You guys missed it.. The fluid is getting hot before the fan cycles on.. What does that tell you? A bad temp sensor? The fan should kick on way before the fluid gets to boiling temp. Plain water is 220 f. If I remember right. With anti-freeze it should be more like 250 or so.

I just read GMBusa's post.. Could be that too. maybe.. But still the fan should kick on way before the boiling point.

 

[Spudley]

Ahhh...the mysterious pocket of air trick......have we over looked a very important piece of the equation ????.......the bike was on it's side. Refilling it won't restart the system circulation until most of the air is gone. It takes just about 3.5 qts.

Empty the system, take both side fairings off, pull the lower hose on the left side and let sit for five minutes, pull right hose for what's left. Reinstall both hoses, and tighten clamps. Fill system with distilled water (while you're chasing issues here), and then put cap on, and roll bike to left, then right, then left, then right again. I can usually get it over about 45 degrees. Remove cap, and refill to top. Roll bike back and forth like before, pull cap and refill. I actually do this procedure at least three times, pumping bubbles. Refill what little is left, then start bike and bring to running temperature while rolling bike back and forth......don't forget to put some fluid in reservoir.

Could it be this stupidly simple ???.......As I recall, the last time I did a system flush, it took one good trip down the freeway, and then I noticed an inch of liquid had disappeared from the reservoir that evening after cooling. I topped, and have lost none since.....interesting.

It's a simple procedure you can do yourself. You may just have a big bubble in the head galley's, and the system hasn't pumped it out, because it can't work up circulation..... wouldn't that be cool ???......Why Zuke never incorporated a bleed valve somewhere is beyond me. The manual does state that rocking is necessary. If a newb tech hasn't read the procedure, he hasn't a clue.....

GM, you're a genius man.....my apologies for overlooking the obvious, I'll bet that's it. I was assuming the system had been properly refilled and burped. The dude working on it probably missed it too !!!! The pump can't build the vacuum necessary, and it can't get the bubble moving either........

 

[ThrlSkr]

Thanks so much for all your input. I cannot tell you all how much I appreciate your time and energy on this, nor how great it feels to be part of this group . . .

 

[omslaw]

I agree with GM, burp the cooling system first. Rule out all the simple things. Cracked heads on a Busa are not common. And if you're not running boost, head gaskets are usually not a problem, either. I had a cracked head (Pics here). Took 3 yrs to find it.

Good luck! Hopfully it's something simple. If you're seeing coolant on the ground, you should be able to find where it's coming from...