Busa's rear brakes not as good as other bikes?

[The Big Red One]

wow my buddy and i last year myrtle beach he was on a 07 1400 and i was on a 06 limited pulled out of a parking lot at night, a car cut us off we both hit a crack in the road he is a front brake person he flipped over on his bike, is bike just stood there, he slide about 30 ft road rash ... i always break simultaneously, just seems that if you tap the back breaks thats all you need to slow it down a little. the rear is where the torque is and the rear is the least weight,anyway good topic  

The 14's front brakes border on overly sensitive if your not good with brake modulation. They really shoulda worried more about newbies flipping the bike forward like your friend did...than putting in those ridiculous flies and killing the low end for fear of newbies flipping over backwards

 

[gtrpimp76]

CharlesBusa is a very wise and well schooled busa fan. You can learn much if you pay attention to his posts.

+1!!

And he's a very good friend and my ALL TIME FAVORITE TRACKDAY RIVAL!!

 

[gtrpimp76]

Rear brake??  What the heck is that

This is like tires, oil, etc...  there are many opinions that differ and the debate can rage on forever.

My opinion.  I don't use it.  It provides very very little of your total braking power(on a Busa or sportbike) and the risk of using it improperly is high.  If you lock up the rear(easy to do), it fishtails behind you, if you let go of the rear brake and its not directly behind you, highside time, up up up in the air you go.  If you lock up the rear, better to keep it locked until you stop.

If you use the rear brake, then PRACTICE emergency/panic stopping often, very often.  Otherwise, someday, you might be flying instead of riding  

Words of a wise man!  

I can tell you from past experience that even a light touch on the rear brake at the wrong time can cause you to haul your beloved busa home in boxes. It happened to me in 2003 on a new busa, only three months old. Now, I use the rear brake so little, the rotor gets rusty.

CharlesBusa is a very wise and well schooled busa fan. You can learn much if you pay attention to his posts.

And to add to that. When under braking, so much of the load is placed on the front end/front tire of the motorcycle, making the rear very light and with an unloaded rear suspension. There's hardly any grip with the rear when using your front brake, thus making it very easy to lock up the rear with little to no effort. I'd rather have weak, sucky, rear brakes as opposed to strong rear brakes if I were to use the rear often. But as a trackday and future club racer, I don't touch it except to control any unwanted wheelies under hard acceleration.

But when i do ride on the streets, I, too, use the front/rear combo only when coming up to a stop light/stop sign or in a parking lot.

 

[Wag]

On the street, I want as much braking power as possible. Even if the rear only adds a little, I still want it, so I use it and practice with it always. The added 15 to 20% is worth it. If you constantly practice proper usage, it can help you in an emergency. You never know when it will make just that little bit of difference between pulling over to settle your nerves before riding on or picking up your bike in pieces. In every case I've heard about when someone's rear brakes were faulted for an accident, it was because the rider didn't use them correctly in an emergency situation. The brakes will be blamed, regardless of whether the rider knew how to use them or not. It's not effective to just stomp on it!!

Also, if you think you need more powerful brakes on the rear, remember, it locks up easily enough already so having more powerful braking power at the rotors will help you not at all. It's tough enough to control it already.

When I brake, I gently dab the rear and that settles the chassis, as mentioned by Churchkey above, then instantly begin to squeeze the front brakes. All of this action has to be done smoothly and requires practice, both front and rear. If anything, the Busa is one of the better bikes to learn this on because it IS rather forgiving. If you're in a parking lot and grab a fistful of front brake, you REALLY have to pound it to get it to cause you a problem. Also, the rear will give you feedback immediately if you hit it too hard and you learn right away where the tolerance points are. As with all such things, smoothly and gently is the way to practice. That way, when you have to do it fast, it will still be smooth and much more effective.

I always recommend that people learn to use the rear brake and the front brake together and get in the habit of using them on the street.

On the track, though, it seems to be an added element that tends to complicate things like turns. At least, it did for me on my first track day! People like Charlesbusa and Gutter Pimp were telling me to abandon the rear. As soon as I did, I had better track sessions overall. Again, however, practice makes perfect and there are plenty of racers out there who recommend learning to use the rear on the track.

On the street? I use 'em.

Cheers!

--Wag--

 

[reiny]

This has been an interesting thread.Last July 07 i wiped out on my bike.I have gone over the accident a billion times in my mind.
The road was 50% wet.I had 6hrs of rider's fatigue.I was 10 km's from home.
As i was approaching a corner,(very very slowly) i was gearing down into 1st gear and i think a little rear braking,my ass end did a very very quick little wiggle and threw me right off the bike!!!!!!
I broke 3 toes and cracked my shoulder blade.Off work for 6 weeks.
Although many will prolly NOT agree, the tire that i was riding at the time is a Avon Azaro 46.That tire is coming off and i will never ever use that tire on a Hayabusa.I've since then bought some Metzler M3's and getting them mounted as soon as it gets warm enough to rid eto the dealer.
The Avon's only have about 4k on them and they still have a lotta meat left.BUT they are a sport touring tire, not a sport bike tire, in my opinion and others that i have spoken to.

 

[Tufbusa]

Here is an example of what can happen by applying the rear brake at the wrong time.

Last year about 15 miles south of my home, a 52 year old California man and his wife (Each riding their own bike) was north bound on Interstate 5. Both husband & wife were cruising at 70 mph or so in the fast lane with the wife in front. Traffic had slowed to a crawl ahead and apparently the husband had not noticed the brake lights in the distance. According to a witness following the bike who happen to be a biker himself, watched as the husband did the emergency braking business on his HD Road King. The rear brake locked the rear tire causing it to step out, the tire caught traction (Most likely from releasing the brake) and the man was instantly tossed off the right side and directly underneath a tractor/trailer between the rear wheels of the tractor and the wheels of the trailer. The trailer wheels ran directly over the mans head leaving his helmet as flat as a dinner plate. The truck driver had no idea his truck had gished the biker. The State Patrol stopped the truck later and gave him the bad news.

I'm sure this old harley rider had always used the rear brake, becoming a welcomed habit. But in certain situations the rear brake can become deadly. In this situation a nice ride on a sunny afternoon, turned into one minute admiring the scenery and due to a bad choice and totally unaware of the danger, was grave yard dead two seconds after applying the rear brake.

I am curious if this unfortunate soul had ever argued the point of using the rear brake?

 

[JINKSTER]

if it wasn't for the occassional stoplight on an incline?....

i'd take my damn rear brake off my busa.

 

[reiny]

I shud also say that i was at the Toronto bike show a few weeks ago and i was talking to a riding instructor.He said"I never use my rear brake !" tThis is coming from a guy who teaches track riding skills on a closed track.
I won't do exactly as he says BUT will certainly always, always keep that in mind!
Aso Tufbusa's story has really got me thinking,

 

[kml]

if it wasn't for the occassional stoplight on an incline?....

i'd take my damn rear brake off my busa.

+1

cheers
ken

 

[Wag]

A great many riders of Harley's and other cruisers refuse to use the front brakes and give many of the same arguments against it as presented here against use of the rear brakes.

The rear brake is a useful and usable piece of equipment. Like anything else on a motorcycle, it must be used correctly and to do that, you need to practice proper technique. Cars do everything automatically, all of the things we do manually on the bikes.

Use the brake or don't, but certainly don't dismiss it out of hand.

--Wag--

 

[thepushercg]

i have seen what power using of the rear brake will do,watching a fellow rider die from using it,showed me all i needed to know.

 

[Loomis]

I had one occassion, Car in front of Me, and A lady was making a left turn, The car in front of me BLOCKED her view of me. The car in front of me passed her as soon at it passed her, She was on the gas making a left. I was like Holy Sh*t. I applied to much rear brake bike started fishtailing all over the place appx speed was at 65. SHE stopped in the Middle of my lane I got off the rear brake got control of the bike and just made it around her front end. But I do use both Brake 90% of the time on the street. I also on occassion just use rear brake when coming to a stop just to see how little the rear brake does stop you on a Busa. But in the back of my mind in a panic stop NOW I just use Front Brake. Sorry for the long thread.

Jon(Loomis).

 

[Charlesbusa]

One other note for the discussion,
What little braking power I lose from using the rear brake, I gain some back(all I want) in engine braking. So as I use maximum braking I modulate the front brake as necessary to keep it from locking up and I use the CLUTCH to keep the rear from stepping out too far as I downshift through the gears. When I brake like this, the rear is lightly chattering behind me telling me it is at its traction limit. If I were to add rear brake to this, the rear would lose all traction instantly.


And the argument about the flipping over from using the front brakes... That is because the rider "grabbed" the brake lever instead of squeezing it. Every time I squeeze the brake lever in maximum braking, the front tire locks up before the rear ever lifts off the ground. Especially on a busa.

Biggest point about emeregency/panic/maximum braking;
PRACTICE, PRACTICE, PRACTICE

 

[Loomis]

One other note for the discussion,
What little braking power I lose from using the rear brake, I gain some back(all I want) in engine braking.  So as I use maximum braking I modulate the front brake as necessary to keep it from locking up and I use the CLUTCH to keep the rear from stepping out too far as I downshift through the gears.  When I brake like this, the rear is lightly chattering behind me telling me it is at its traction limit.  If I were to add rear brake to this, the rear would lose all traction instantly.


And the argument about the flipping over from using the front brakes...  That is because the rider "grabbed" the brake lever instead of squeezing it.  Every time I squeeze the brake lever in maximum braking, the front tire locks up before the rear ever lifts off the ground.   Especially on a busa.

+1 I do use quite a bit of Clutch and down shifting to slow also.

 

[UncleSteve]

Interesting ...

 

[CrashBomb]

I had one occassion, Car in front of Me, and A lady was making a left turn, The car in front of me BLOCKED her view of me. The car in front of me passed her as soon at it passed her, She was on the gas making a left. I was like Holy Sh*t. I applied to much rear brake bike started fishtailing all over the place appx speed was at 65. SHE stopped in the Middle of my lane I got off the rear brake got control of the bike and just made it around her front end. But I do use both Brake 90% of the time on the street. I also on occassion just use rear brake when coming to a stop just to see how little the rear brake does stop you on a Busa. But in the back of my mind in a panic stop NOW I just use Front Brake. Sorry for the long thread.

Jon(Loomis).

It never ceases to amaze me how they just STOP, even if they're sitting in the middle of your lane. They see you coming and some neural pathway in the frontal cortex shorts out and yells "DO SOMETHING...ANYTHING...JUST...STOP! That'll solve the problem!"

If you're going to cut me off at least have the decency and common sense to do it quickly and get out of the way.

 

[Copperone]

I an a front brake only guy. At high speed when you have to stop fast, and you apply both brakes hard, (as has already been said serveral times), you are going to get a serious fishtail. And, as Charles said, if your bike isn't straight when you get off the rear brake you could definately go flying. I am definately not an advocate of rear brake use. If you want increased braking in the front, switch to a Brembo master cylinder. That will stop you on a dime right now. I know we all have different opnions, but I'm sticking with the way I brake. Anyhow, just my opnion.

 

[99'busa]

I only use the rear brake w/ frt. brake IF it's a hard stopping situation.ie. sudden red light ect...

besides the less i use the rear the easier it is to keep the rear wheel clean