Cams-Intake on Exhaust or New grinds??

[APE Dustin]

No your set up would work very well and the way you have it planed out will work out good in the long run. For some reason I was thinking you bought a new intake cam for the exhaust side when you did your swap, instead of just using your stock intake cam. Doing it that way would save you money and would be easier, except having to re-index the cam sprocket, but I haven't seen too many people do that set up though. Most either buy the drop ins or the intake cam. The difference between billet and hardweld is the billet cam is a brand new cam and the hardwelded cam is taking your cam and hardwelding it to a different spec. Hardwelding your cams make a stronger cam because it tempers the cam and gives it a hard surface to open the valves with. If you are building a big hp motor you should go with the hardwelded cam, but most people don't want to have to wait for their cams to be welded.

 

[johnnycrash]

VERY good info, Dustin! Thanks!!!

 

[APE Dustin]

No problem, I tried to find some more info on webcams website, but they didn't really talk about it. But that is the main difference between the two.

 

[Professor]

Billet versions are cut from one piece of steel, ground and hardened. The hard welds are OEM cams that have been welded up and then ground to the correct specs. What you want to avoid is an OEM camshaft that has only been reground. This is done by reducing the material on the backside to increase lift. In other words if you want .050 more lift you cut .050 off the bottom. (it is actually more complicated, as you have to look at the whole profile) It can really mess with the geometry and valve shims. A proper ground camshaft is not going to need much in changes to the valve shims as the base height from the centerline of the cam is going to remain pretty close.

Which is better Hard-Weld or Billet? I honestly do not know in this application and could see advantages of the welded cams as having a harder surface.

 

[Professor]

Looks like Dustin beat me to it as I got distracted!


Btw... the lift specs on the 08 cams show how much the 99-07 might have been behind on the exhaust side

In .355
Ex .339

 

[APE Dustin]

Good info professor. That is a pretty big jump on the exhaust. I wonder if anybody has tried to put in a set of stock cams from an 08 into an older model?

 

[Professor]

I'm not sure. I read somewhere the sensor pin on the intake is indexed differently. I don't remember the number but 5 degrees seems to come to mind. Something is also different with the bearings, again I don't remember the details.


Based on lift alone, The 08 intake is not far off from the custom web the Brock uses in his drop in. .360 vs .355. The 08 exhaust falls in between the little web and the oem intake .330 .339 .346 (the Brock drop-in grind is similar). Of course lift is only 1 of 3 or 4 parts of the picture. I'm not sure if anyone is running different opening and closing ramps on the profiles in these applications. I have seen asymmetrical lobes in race car camshafts that were hard on valvetrains. This would cause issues with swapping intake to exhaust with some cams.

 

[APE Dustin]

I do remember hearing that there was something different on the intake cam than the previous years. And you are correct on the lift only being one aspect of the cam design. If you change one thing you can change the power output dramaticaly.

 

[IllusionalTA]

I guess rather than start a new thread. it kinda ties into this one.. Dropped off my 02 and my buddies shop to have the Brock 031 exh. cam installed.. Baseline dyno w/ no changes it made 157 w/ a full muzzy, PCIIIR (unknown map).. Gonna dyno it after everything's lined up and degreed and put back together. no changes... im curious myself to see what it'll do as i haven't seen anyone post any result's of "just the cam"... Then i'll install my alien head and the rest of the crap and dyno again..

BTW 8SecBusa, i met you at Cecil on the 24th or 25th of Nov.

Nice runnin' bike ya got...

 

[8secBusa]

Highjacked!!!!

Na, just kidding. I do apreciate all the info. Typically I get into something then find out as much as I can. I ran a small block nova 383, got it down to 10.2"s, then upgrade to a big block and got down to 9.1"s. The car got to be too much maintenance, so sent it down the road.

I have a local shop that wants to sell me the whole set up, 1397, 13 to 1, 378 cams, ported head. My goal is to break in the 8"s, I didn't think I need that much, I figured a set of wheels, race fuel, set of cams, maybe a ported head would get me there.
I would prefer to do all I can myself, mostly so I can learn something. I have degreed cams, advanded/retarded them, so I am familar with the process.

Give me your estimates:
Current performance 9.4's at 145

Planned Mods:
Marvic rear wheel (.1)
MR9 fuel (.1)
cams (.1)
ported head (.1)
Ride Better (.1)

 

[8secBusa]

IllusionalTA, were you up there with your father? I think you were having traction issues with the Mickey you were running.

 

[IllusionalTA]

nope.. i had the black and blue busa.. they kicked me out cause of no kill switch..

 

[IllusionalTA]

nope.. i had the black and blue busa.. they kicked me out cause of no kill switch..

 

[8secBusa]

Oh yeah. You started off running in Jeans. My buddy with the Green 78 Kz1000 came over to me and asked if I thought Rob would sideline you for not having leathers or the kill switch. You did get a few passes in first right?

 

[IllusionalTA]

Yea.. i got 4 in.. They nailed me for the kill switch.. i had the leathers in the truck.. but knew i'd be slow..

First time out on a new bike..

 

[mountainmotor]

Even new billets often have to be hardwelded in a couple spots up around the nose of the cam .

Dependent on the desired profile , all new billets will have to be fully welded .

Maximum valve acceleration from the ramps of small base circle cams does not effect geometry because the cams are running on top of a direct acting bucket and valve stem axis . Busa's don't have pushrods

Topic creator . Use a designed set of aftermarket cams based on your mods and what your willing to spend to up the compression be it std bore or larger. Further down the road I think you will be glad you did .

 

[IllusionalTA]

Well just got back w/ the result's of the cam install..It's a brock ex031 cam for the exhaust.. Just installing/degreeing the cam it picked up 7rwhp up top.. and lost about 3-4hp between 4-6K... then it passes the stocker and keeps on goin.. Not bad for 200 bux..

So i went from 155.4 to 162.5 w/ 94.9ft to 96.0.. I'm satisfied....

 

[8secBusa]

Great! 7hp ahould be worth .2 and 4 mph..

Is your pipe a 4 into 1 or a 4 into 2 into 1??

 

[mountainmotor]

I was thinking about doing the intake swap to the exhaust, wondering if there is much to be had or if just upgrading both with some after maket grinds is the better value.

Here's an example of how a well chosen set of aftermarket cams will help you . This is not my engine but I know the build .

Stock headers with bolt-on mufflers . Head ports cleaned up with small airbox mod . Slight increase in compression . It's a std bore 1299cc first gen. Pump gas . No funny business being played with fuel or dyno and just look at the torque curve . This thing will haul the mail for such little money spent . The Busa shoulda left the factory like this .

Need a couple of proven and ultra reliable power recipes ?

View attachment 1241750

 

[IllusionalTA]

Great! 7hp ahould be worth .2 and 4 mph..

Is your pipe a 4 into 1 or a 4 into 2 into 1??

I have no idea what it is.. it's a std muzzy sys..