Concealed handgun carry when riding
- Thread starter NCBusa2001
- Start date
I carry (legally of course, I have a concealed carry permit in VA), but rarely when I am on the bike for fear of falling on it and causing undue injury to myself and the weapon. Plus I often cross state lines into WV, NC, and TN seeing as I live near them and you cannot carry accross many state lines legally.
But do not carry if you do not have a permit!!!! Not worth the consequences!
Got lead (he he)?
But do not carry if you do not have a permit!!!! Not worth the consequences!
Got lead (he he)?
This did come up last year around this time. It got pretty heated. I just have a few thoughts to share...
1. Concealed weapons do exactly bobo to prevent crimes against you and your person. THEY ARE CONCEALED!!! What this means is that simply carrying a concealed weapon can all by itself get you into a situation where you will HAVE TO USE IT. Your ego says he he he I have a gun, and instead of avoiding the situation as you normally would your strutting around like John Wayne because your "Strapped". I want to see OPEN CARRY as standard. In Colorado I would frequently ride with a .357 magnum in thigh holster. Plainly visible, now, who do you think the thuggy's are going to mess with, the dude openly carrying a big assed revolver? Or the guy that appears unarmed? Regardless of the fact that both of us have lethal force options, I am in a position to never have an encounter that requires it, WHY? Thugs do not mess with folks that wearing guns, because they just might get a bullet in the ass... And I'll tell you this; riding with an openly carried sidearm really creates some of the most polite cagers around you.
Now, most citizens move about their day in their sheep like manner and seeing a plainclothes guy with a BFG on their thigh or hip is a source of GREAT stress, so yeah, concealed carry is the way to go and the only legal way to carry a gun in a lot of places. Just do not think that a concealed weapon is going to prevent violence against you, it will only be a horribly final reaction...
OH AND YES I CARRY A SIG 226 with 45 rounds total with me when I ride out of my area. Loaded with COR-BON 115GR +P JHP, YEAH JACKETED HOLLOW POINTS... There is no such thing as "DUM_DUMS". Hate to be harsh... But come with me on this Brother...
NOT Dum-Dum’s, But Hollow points (HP) or Jacketed Hollow Points (JHP) or Semi-jacketed Hollow points (SJHP). The Term Dum-Dum is a tool of the press, and should never be described in relationship to the ammo you are using, especially not in self-defense. The Courts will eat you alive!!!
Best suggestion; buy a Firearm, Ammo, and Holster/carry rig that is used by any of the Federal Law Enforcement Branches, or your local Sheriff or PD. WHY? Defending yourself in Court!!! If I shoot someone in self defense with my Ruger GP100 .357Magnum, W/ 125Grn Remington "Golden Saber" Brass Jacketed Hollow points, I am both safety conscious and serious about protecting myself. Hell it's the same stuff the State Troopers used to carry, some still do... and the jacket Hollow points are proven to penetrate less drywall and glass than standard "Ball" type ammo....
BUT I shoot the same guy with my Colt "PYTHON" and the term "DUM-DUM" bullets??? Shiot, suddenly the Jury gets this image of me as some Vigilante Bucket head!!! I could end up going to jail over the name of the gun used...seriously...
This is part of why I got my SIG 226, Secret Service Uses it, it's an alternate for certain duty carries for the small framed, heck, Sounds as American as Apple Pie... So avoid your "Desert Eagles", Your Pythons, etc... and lord help you if you shoot some creep with an "Assault" style weapon... You’ll be eaten alive there Rambo... Be REAL BORING with your defensive weapons...
DON'T GET ME WRONG, I am a verified Gun NUT and I love shooting whenever I get a chance, I just get tired of some of the BULLSHIT COWBOY RHETORIC I hear out there in the world. Jug heads with no concept of just how completely life altering it will be if they get out there and try to protect them selves. Hell even if you successfully blow away the scumbag in your house, the scumbag family he leaves behind then SUES your ass in a civil court for wrongful death, gets a sympathetic ANTI self defense SHEEP jury and boom, your whole life, everything you have worked for, goes to this scumbags crack head wife and family... What do you win? Not to mention the psychological aspects of killing a human, blowing away, a Husband, Dad, Brother, Son, etc... Blood on your walls, in your hair, on your hands, in the carpet... He might just be making a bad decision and breaking into your house cause he's a junky but someone prolly loves him and is going to miss him ARE YOU READY? Don't kid yourself with more Macho I got a big gun BS, think hard... THINK Real HARD!!!! Do you know that every cop involved in the shooting death of an individual is required to go see the shrink after words...(In most jurisdictions) perhaps for quite awhile? And they are trained for this...
Will I blow away someone breaking into my house? Not necessarily, if the scumbag is there for "STUFF" Hell I am well insured... I get better stuff... Scumbag comes towards the master bedroom.... We have heat, but the 911 operator is on the line listening... the cops are on their way, and I have a Winchester Pump action 12 gauge with an 8 round tube ready to go leveled at the bedroom door. If I feel personally threatened... BOOM, BUT, I have the 911 call as a witness to warnings given, and I did not STALK through my house, lie in ambush, or otherwise do anything that can be used against me in court. Be armed absolutely, but be smart. Don't trash your entire life over material stuff, even in states where it is authorized. Let it go, hell I'll hold the door for the sum-bitch if they promise to take away my Bose System, my Sony TV, and my Laptop.... All I see is NEW GEAR!!!
OK OK OK Hopefully you Get what I am saying here...
2. Guns on Bikes... What are you Fuggin Wild Bill? You qualified to shoot from a moving bike? Do you train LEFT handed? AND just WHAT THE Hell kind of situation do you think that firearm will come in handy in the event of ROADRAGE? You going to be shooting at a Toyota 4X4 because he just swerved at you? Do you think maybe you can just WAVE IT AT them and they will go away? Get real there Billy the Kid... A concealed carry is good on a bike while stopped in case someone tries to jack you, or while getting gas in the middle of NoWheresVille maybe... BUT, do you shoot the kid who just knocked you off your Busa in the BACK?
Your going to jail son... Unless your state has it written, in Defense of myself and others from personal harm or to prevent or stop a felony act in progress... Some states you can, but it will still prolly be your ass... And if he didn't jack you at GUNPOINT and is still pointing the gun at you as he rides away... MURDER Guaranteed in most states... Remember the Government DOES NOT LIKE YOU DEFENDING YOURSELF... simple as that... SO like I said above BE SMART!!! I love my bike, but hell, I have insurance, I get a NEW BUSA!!!! and I move on...
In Florida like WarBaby says the license is for concealed weapons, not just firearms. So I offer up that an ASP Baton and some Pepper Spray are far more suitable force options in the real world, (outside the home or a vehicle). You cannot shoot the drunken 6'6" Dude swinging at your head with closed fists... But you can remove a shinbone with a baton and give him a shot OC in the face... Leave him crying like a little BEEYOTCH in the street, and everyone goes home happy... Worst case here... Battery, Maybe Assault W/Deadly, but your striking below the waist and Pepper Spray are clear NON-Lethal techniques that WILL NOT immediately send you to jail, Not saying do not have a firearm Handy but keep it in your pants...
To summarize....
I love guns, I love shooting, I am seriously PRO Defense.
BUT I Believe a Concealed FIREARM is NOT necessarily the right answer for %90 of the trouble we might run into.
Not Trying to step on toes, just saying that while I dig guns, their actual usefulness is pretty damned limited... But I "sure as hell would rather have one and not need it, than need one and not have it..."
Rev...
Hey, looky Bullet... I think this is a new record....
<!--EDIT|Revlis
Reason for Edit: None given...|1079016859 -->
1. Concealed weapons do exactly bobo to prevent crimes against you and your person. THEY ARE CONCEALED!!! What this means is that simply carrying a concealed weapon can all by itself get you into a situation where you will HAVE TO USE IT. Your ego says he he he I have a gun, and instead of avoiding the situation as you normally would your strutting around like John Wayne because your "Strapped". I want to see OPEN CARRY as standard. In Colorado I would frequently ride with a .357 magnum in thigh holster. Plainly visible, now, who do you think the thuggy's are going to mess with, the dude openly carrying a big assed revolver? Or the guy that appears unarmed? Regardless of the fact that both of us have lethal force options, I am in a position to never have an encounter that requires it, WHY? Thugs do not mess with folks that wearing guns, because they just might get a bullet in the ass... And I'll tell you this; riding with an openly carried sidearm really creates some of the most polite cagers around you.
Now, most citizens move about their day in their sheep like manner and seeing a plainclothes guy with a BFG on their thigh or hip is a source of GREAT stress, so yeah, concealed carry is the way to go and the only legal way to carry a gun in a lot of places. Just do not think that a concealed weapon is going to prevent violence against you, it will only be a horribly final reaction...
OH AND YES I CARRY A SIG 226 with 45 rounds total with me when I ride out of my area. Loaded with COR-BON 115GR +P JHP, YEAH JACKETED HOLLOW POINTS... There is no such thing as "DUM_DUMS". Hate to be harsh... But come with me on this Brother...
NOT Dum-Dum’s, But Hollow points (HP) or Jacketed Hollow Points (JHP) or Semi-jacketed Hollow points (SJHP). The Term Dum-Dum is a tool of the press, and should never be described in relationship to the ammo you are using, especially not in self-defense. The Courts will eat you alive!!!
Best suggestion; buy a Firearm, Ammo, and Holster/carry rig that is used by any of the Federal Law Enforcement Branches, or your local Sheriff or PD. WHY? Defending yourself in Court!!! If I shoot someone in self defense with my Ruger GP100 .357Magnum, W/ 125Grn Remington "Golden Saber" Brass Jacketed Hollow points, I am both safety conscious and serious about protecting myself. Hell it's the same stuff the State Troopers used to carry, some still do... and the jacket Hollow points are proven to penetrate less drywall and glass than standard "Ball" type ammo....
BUT I shoot the same guy with my Colt "PYTHON" and the term "DUM-DUM" bullets??? Shiot, suddenly the Jury gets this image of me as some Vigilante Bucket head!!! I could end up going to jail over the name of the gun used...seriously...
This is part of why I got my SIG 226, Secret Service Uses it, it's an alternate for certain duty carries for the small framed, heck, Sounds as American as Apple Pie... So avoid your "Desert Eagles", Your Pythons, etc... and lord help you if you shoot some creep with an "Assault" style weapon... You’ll be eaten alive there Rambo... Be REAL BORING with your defensive weapons...
DON'T GET ME WRONG, I am a verified Gun NUT and I love shooting whenever I get a chance, I just get tired of some of the BULLSHIT COWBOY RHETORIC I hear out there in the world. Jug heads with no concept of just how completely life altering it will be if they get out there and try to protect them selves. Hell even if you successfully blow away the scumbag in your house, the scumbag family he leaves behind then SUES your ass in a civil court for wrongful death, gets a sympathetic ANTI self defense SHEEP jury and boom, your whole life, everything you have worked for, goes to this scumbags crack head wife and family... What do you win? Not to mention the psychological aspects of killing a human, blowing away, a Husband, Dad, Brother, Son, etc... Blood on your walls, in your hair, on your hands, in the carpet... He might just be making a bad decision and breaking into your house cause he's a junky but someone prolly loves him and is going to miss him ARE YOU READY? Don't kid yourself with more Macho I got a big gun BS, think hard... THINK Real HARD!!!! Do you know that every cop involved in the shooting death of an individual is required to go see the shrink after words...(In most jurisdictions) perhaps for quite awhile? And they are trained for this...
Will I blow away someone breaking into my house? Not necessarily, if the scumbag is there for "STUFF" Hell I am well insured... I get better stuff... Scumbag comes towards the master bedroom.... We have heat, but the 911 operator is on the line listening... the cops are on their way, and I have a Winchester Pump action 12 gauge with an 8 round tube ready to go leveled at the bedroom door. If I feel personally threatened... BOOM, BUT, I have the 911 call as a witness to warnings given, and I did not STALK through my house, lie in ambush, or otherwise do anything that can be used against me in court. Be armed absolutely, but be smart. Don't trash your entire life over material stuff, even in states where it is authorized. Let it go, hell I'll hold the door for the sum-bitch if they promise to take away my Bose System, my Sony TV, and my Laptop.... All I see is NEW GEAR!!!
OK OK OK Hopefully you Get what I am saying here...
2. Guns on Bikes... What are you Fuggin Wild Bill? You qualified to shoot from a moving bike? Do you train LEFT handed? AND just WHAT THE Hell kind of situation do you think that firearm will come in handy in the event of ROADRAGE? You going to be shooting at a Toyota 4X4 because he just swerved at you? Do you think maybe you can just WAVE IT AT them and they will go away? Get real there Billy the Kid... A concealed carry is good on a bike while stopped in case someone tries to jack you, or while getting gas in the middle of NoWheresVille maybe... BUT, do you shoot the kid who just knocked you off your Busa in the BACK?
In Florida like WarBaby says the license is for concealed weapons, not just firearms. So I offer up that an ASP Baton and some Pepper Spray are far more suitable force options in the real world, (outside the home or a vehicle). You cannot shoot the drunken 6'6" Dude swinging at your head with closed fists... But you can remove a shinbone with a baton and give him a shot OC in the face... Leave him crying like a little BEEYOTCH in the street, and everyone goes home happy... Worst case here... Battery, Maybe Assault W/Deadly, but your striking below the waist and Pepper Spray are clear NON-Lethal techniques that WILL NOT immediately send you to jail, Not saying do not have a firearm Handy but keep it in your pants...
To summarize....
I love guns, I love shooting, I am seriously PRO Defense.
BUT I Believe a Concealed FIREARM is NOT necessarily the right answer for %90 of the trouble we might run into.
Not Trying to step on toes, just saying that while I dig guns, their actual usefulness is pretty damned limited... But I "sure as hell would rather have one and not need it, than need one and not have it..."
Rev...
Hey, looky Bullet... I think this is a new record....
<!--EDIT|Revlis
Reason for Edit: None given...|1079016859 -->
Don't carry though I've considered it. After 11 years in the Corps I like to think I'm fairly proficient with a firearm, but at the moment my Faith seems to be enough.
I'll say this to anyone who carries just make sure you know the rules for using deadly force in the area you travel in. Furthermore, and perhaps more importantly make sure if you have to pull it out you have the courage to use it on another human being. Taking another's life takes more guts/courage than target shooting. And the consquences for both parties are going to be longer lasting.
Now with that said... If it came down to I shoot to protect myself or my family. And I'ld shoot to kill. Perhaps its the military training or the mindet I gained from the Corps, but I can't imagine pulling out a gun to just wound someone. If it gets to the point where I have to pull it out someone is going down for the count ---why ... because its better to be tried by twelve with no witnmesses than carried by six or tried by twelve with a witness.
Cap em if you have to, but I'ld almost be willing to bet that most people capping someone for stealing or trying to steal a bike or gonna find it more difficult to live with, and my find themselves losing the joy attached with riding.
But then again perhaps I've just seen enough violence in the service and wrestled with enough of my own personal demons to realize those who are trained to fight and to kill are often the most reluctant to want to do so.
I'll say this to anyone who carries just make sure you know the rules for using deadly force in the area you travel in. Furthermore, and perhaps more importantly make sure if you have to pull it out you have the courage to use it on another human being. Taking another's life takes more guts/courage than target shooting. And the consquences for both parties are going to be longer lasting.
Now with that said... If it came down to I shoot to protect myself or my family. And I'ld shoot to kill. Perhaps its the military training or the mindet I gained from the Corps, but I can't imagine pulling out a gun to just wound someone. If it gets to the point where I have to pull it out someone is going down for the count ---why ... because its better to be tried by twelve with no witnmesses than carried by six or tried by twelve with a witness.
Cap em if you have to, but I'ld almost be willing to bet that most people capping someone for stealing or trying to steal a bike or gonna find it more difficult to live with, and my find themselves losing the joy attached with riding.
But then again perhaps I've just seen enough violence in the service and wrestled with enough of my own personal demons to realize those who are trained to fight and to kill are often the most reluctant to want to do so.
Well Said Dezzy, You nailed it... Before ever drawing a weapon, make damn certain that you are capable of taking a life... No hesitation, you have to know that you are willing to Kill to protect yourself, or loved ones.
The most important thing is to NOT pull a gun if you are not willing and able to use it... Folks tend to react REALLY poorly to having a gun pointed at them...
Thanks UU, Next long one should be a proper Book I think...
<!--EDIT|Revlis
Reason for Edit: None given...|1079019920 -->
Great stuff Dez. He makes a point that everyone who owns a gun should research - there are very few jurisdictions that allow using deadly force to protect your property. If you use deadly force in such jurisdictions against a thief, you will go to jail and the thief (or his estate) will sue you and win.
<!--EDIT|maoz
Reason for Edit: None given...|1079021420 -->
<!--EDIT|maoz
Reason for Edit: None given...|1079021420 -->
Amen Rev & Dez.
Like I said, I don't carry on the bike for seemingly obvious reasons, actually rarely at all anymore.
So in short, I am a gun nut also, and I am all for the right to carry, but you best know what you are getting yourself into and be prepared for the possible ramifications. A big responsibility goes with this right/priviledge (spelling?).
Like I said, I don't carry on the bike for seemingly obvious reasons, actually rarely at all anymore.
So in short, I am a gun nut also, and I am all for the right to carry, but you best know what you are getting yourself into and be prepared for the possible ramifications. A big responsibility goes with this right/priviledge (spelling?).
I Don’t carry - If I were able to obtain a CCW I might. However here is the way I look at it.
In most scenarios I am good at defusing any type of conflict. If I am not able to totally defuse a situation, I normally have enough of the people on the other side seeing my point of view to where they will get there one or two people in check that are not seeing my view.
This is not that I am intimidating; I just am usually good at talking and explaining my situation in a very polite and non threatening manner.
I never allow my self to get angry with someone to the extent that they feel threatened which usually negates anyone wanting to pull a weapon on me.
And if in a worse case scenario, I would much rather kill someone with my bare hands by twisting their head until their neck snapped, or to possibly grab two fingers full of throat to crush and collapse there airway, or possibly strike their chest hard enough to cause their hear to explode.
Killing someone with your bare hands in an open conflict where you feel threatened and there are multiple adversaries will usually end with a Jury letting you off with justifiable defense of ones life.
Whereas if you use a firearm, and edged weapon or even a club, a prosecution team would have an easier time convincing a jury that the amount of lethal force you used was not justified.
Killing someone with your bare hands would always probably be better than shooting them.
However if someone attempt to break into my house and or my family is ever threatened or in danger, that changes the rules and I WILL pull out my firearms.. Game on at that time.
Just like if I travel with my family or when I travel alone. If I make a long trip with my family, I usually pack, I need to ensure beyond any doubt I can protect them.
If I travel alone somewhere, I am not as worried about it, it is easier to worry about myself in a combat situation than it is to worry about myself and family members. So by packing when I have my family with me, I can ensure a quicker method to eliminate and neutralize any possible threat, whereas if I am alone, I am not as worried about how quick I eliminate a threat, I am then more word about efficiency and over all long term affects of any actions I might take.
Just my two cents for it is worth.
In most scenarios I am good at defusing any type of conflict. If I am not able to totally defuse a situation, I normally have enough of the people on the other side seeing my point of view to where they will get there one or two people in check that are not seeing my view.
This is not that I am intimidating; I just am usually good at talking and explaining my situation in a very polite and non threatening manner.
I never allow my self to get angry with someone to the extent that they feel threatened which usually negates anyone wanting to pull a weapon on me.
And if in a worse case scenario, I would much rather kill someone with my bare hands by twisting their head until their neck snapped, or to possibly grab two fingers full of throat to crush and collapse there airway, or possibly strike their chest hard enough to cause their hear to explode.
Killing someone with your bare hands in an open conflict where you feel threatened and there are multiple adversaries will usually end with a Jury letting you off with justifiable defense of ones life.
Whereas if you use a firearm, and edged weapon or even a club, a prosecution team would have an easier time convincing a jury that the amount of lethal force you used was not justified.
Killing someone with your bare hands would always probably be better than shooting them.
However if someone attempt to break into my house and or my family is ever threatened or in danger, that changes the rules and I WILL pull out my firearms.. Game on at that time.
Just like if I travel with my family or when I travel alone. If I make a long trip with my family, I usually pack, I need to ensure beyond any doubt I can protect them.
If I travel alone somewhere, I am not as worried about it, it is easier to worry about myself in a combat situation than it is to worry about myself and family members. So by packing when I have my family with me, I can ensure a quicker method to eliminate and neutralize any possible threat, whereas if I am alone, I am not as worried about how quick I eliminate a threat, I am then more word about efficiency and over all long term affects of any actions I might take.
Just my two cents for it is worth.
MeatGrinder
Registered
In Ohio, while riding a mc, the weapon has to be exposed. No concealment. I guess that could be a crime deterant.
Ok, I take back what I said about not packing.. I want one of those!!!! lol to hell with justifiable homicide in defense..think i might shooting people in cages that almost hit me have almost drug a few people through the window without a weapon not sure gun would be a good idea
if i could mount the gun on the busa that would be cool
need to mount this on the busa
Same in Colorado, avoids all the BS when you are openly carrying....
Lends some credibility to the old saying "An Armed society is a polite society."
Very interesting topic. I have seen it before, and it can get heated. Jus t keep the repect you guys have shown so far for others' opinions and we will be cool.
Me, I own a gun, but never carry it. I think about it for overnight trips, but usually decide that my other two guns usually do enough to deter people from f'n with me for no reason, and I NEVER screw with others. so it works out.
<marquee>I'm a rider not a fighter!</marquee> <marquee>I'm a rider not a fighter!</marquee> <marquee>I'm a rider not a fighter!</marquee>
<!--EDIT|Thinker62
Reason for Edit: None given...|1079036591 -->
Me, I own a gun, but never carry it. I think about it for overnight trips, but usually decide that my other two guns usually do enough to deter people from f'n with me for no reason, and I NEVER screw with others. so it works out.
<marquee>I'm a rider not a fighter!</marquee> <marquee>I'm a rider not a fighter!</marquee> <marquee>I'm a rider not a fighter!</marquee>
<!--EDIT|Thinker62
Reason for Edit: None given...|1079036591 -->
If, per chance, I conveyed the impression that I carry while riding for the purpose of self defense during the ride, I do not (although, ironically, I have trained for weak-hand shooting a la "Wild Bill").
I thought it would be obvious that a carry weapon on a bike is for dismounted stops and the destination.
For self defense while riding, a hot Busa, keen situational awareness, and hard-earned riding skills work for me.
No Sir, My rant was not aimed at anyone and certainly not you. I understand the topic at hand and your post. BUT, the last time this came up there was a point where riding and shooting did come up... You know, so you can protect yourself from the cager trying to run you off the road...If, per chance, I conveyed the impression that I carry while riding for the purpose of self defense during the ride, I do not (although, ironically, I have trained for weak-hand shooting a la "Wild Bill").I thought it would be obvious that a carry weapon on a bike is for dismounted stops and the destination.
For self defense while riding, a hot Busa, keen situational awareness, and hard-earned riding skills work for me.
I found shooting weak handed to be fairly challenging, not too natural but with some practice I could at least put rounds on target. What gets me is trying to re-load a SIG 226 or any Auto with one hand... Thats something I find pretty impossible... I had my Wild Bill moments though, HK .40 and a Glock 23 One in each hand emptying the magazines at a pumpkin, rambo style.... But man, them pumpkins are hardcore... couldn't handle it with just one auto could I?...
I also agree that if you actually get into it with a cage, you've allready failed to use the Busa to your advantage.
Anyhoo, no offense meant, to anyone on the board, I just tend not to hold much back.
Uhhh yeah. I am thinking unless the cage has a really cool mod, it aint catching me OR my Busa. If a cage is trying to run you off the road your only option is to hit the throttle.
If you have time to pull a gun out, the cage wasn't really trying to run you down. If the cage really is trying to run you down, don't even bother trying to pull your gin out, the cage will get you before you have a chance.
Hit the throttle, the Busa will have you way clear with in 5 seconds.
We have a guy in our town that isn't even riding a Busa, some other bike. cops keep trying to catch him, but every time they see him he runs and gets away.
This guy is even going to local bike shops and bragging about it. (the word is getting back to the police)
Now don't tell me if a bike that is NOT a Busa can get away from law enforcement that you cant get away from a silly little car on a Busa...
If you have time to pull a gun out, the cage wasn't really trying to run you down. If the cage really is trying to run you down, don't even bother trying to pull your gin out, the cage will get you before you have a chance.
Hit the throttle, the Busa will have you way clear with in 5 seconds.
We have a guy in our town that isn't even riding a Busa, some other bike. cops keep trying to catch him, but every time they see him he runs and gets away.
This guy is even going to local bike shops and bragging about it. (the word is getting back to the police)
Now don't tell me if a bike that is NOT a Busa can get away from law enforcement that you cant get away from a silly little car on a Busa...
Rev - No offense taken or intended... I thought the Wild Bill analogy was funny. Clarity can be challenging on message boards. There are some wise views expressed above about this always-controversial subject. Some members are surely "anti", some are clearly "pro", and some are probably sitting on the fence. I essentially concur with everything you said, especially some of the legal aspects. I used to carry with magazines of crazy-expansion Black Talon .45 hollow point loads because of their unprecedented first round stopping power. Then, as a few shocking court decisions surfaced, I changed to commonly available but-still-potent Federal Hydrashock hollow points. I've also used "frangible" rounds (they powderize with no over-penetration, as you may know) for even more socially-conservative self defense. Ball ammo sucks for self defense. The military uses ball ammo partially for the purpose of w-o-u-n-d-i-n-g the enemy under the precept that a wounded soldier requires o-t-h-e-r soldiers to care for him. Thus, further reducing the enemy's capacity to fight.
It's a deep subject and you covered a lot of it well. My foremost thought for this thread is that guns and gun-carrying are not for everyone. Some people are smart to leave guns out of their lives. Some others are sufficiently responsible and smart enough to safely use and carry guns. It's some of the remaining people who scare me--like a 14 year old gangster with a 14-round 9mm in his pocket. Or a meth/crack-pumped wacko with a pink Saturday Night Special .25 in need of a fix. Or an 88 I.Q. burglar who wants a new pair of $120 Nike Air sneakers, etc. etc. Until all people are willing to live and let live, the problem and controversy will continue. Meanwhile, I'll always try to be prepared.
Later...
It's a deep subject and you covered a lot of it well. My foremost thought for this thread is that guns and gun-carrying are not for everyone. Some people are smart to leave guns out of their lives. Some others are sufficiently responsible and smart enough to safely use and carry guns. It's some of the remaining people who scare me--like a 14 year old gangster with a 14-round 9mm in his pocket. Or a meth/crack-pumped wacko with a pink Saturday Night Special .25 in need of a fix. Or an 88 I.Q. burglar who wants a new pair of $120 Nike Air sneakers, etc. etc. Until all people are willing to live and let live, the problem and controversy will continue. Meanwhile, I'll always try to be prepared.
Later...
wow...makes for interesing arguments. My biggest concern? Shooting myself in the A$$ if I ever need it and pull it out way too fast that I hit the safety before it leaves my pocket. That's gonna leave a mark!
Not to mention if I store it in the front! Ohhh...my precious shaved nads!!
Not to mention if I store it in the front! Ohhh...my precious shaved nads!!
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