Discussion 3 - Killing a US citizen

[Jet Li]

Since he commited acts of war against the US, incited others to do harm to the US, he is plain and simply an enemy of the US and no longer a citizen.

He made his bed, and we put him to sleep in it! Isn't this war?

What if we had brought him to trial? What kind of precedent would that set? Would that just embolden ot hers that are on the fence to join in the attack on America?

Political correctness extremeism is one reason why our country is the condition it is in currently. We hamstring ourselves with it. Our morality is fading. I think taking the stance of ," putting him on trial" clouds the issue. I am not afraid to travel abroad and have no worry about being assisinated because, simply, I have done NOTHING to warrant it. Our dead terrorist did everyting he could to make himself a target! Why so suprised the US put an end to him?????

 

[Bosshound]

This Dead Terrorist WON !!! He accomplished his task..........................He got us to Break our own Rules. Personally I Feel Better now that he is Erased from the Earth. But at what Cost ? How can we look our selves in the eye and Defend the Constitution of the United States of America when we just killed one of it's own Citizens with out the 5th Amendment DUE PROCESS Right that we are defending in the First Place ?

Robert

 

[raydog]

As a peace officer in a big city, the academy trained me in the following way....if I am chasing a person into an abandoned apartment building and I know him to have just murdered/raped/robbed, etc., when I locate him and if I have reasonable cause to believe he will murder/rape/rob again......then I am justified in using deadly force against him. This is a consistant point of law in 50 states.
The only difference in the drone situation is that it occured in another nation state. A reasonable and prudent man would conclude that the suspect was treasonous, which is punishable by death.
To those that say we are reacting to "just what CNN says", I would remind you that this enemy soldier published a terrorist newsletter explaining how to enter and kill innocent people in the USA. At least 3 terrorist incidents were directly attributed to this man (Ft. Dix, shoe bomber, New York vehicle bomb) and his dogma, evidence reveals mush more was to come. Very similar to the way Charles Manson sent "his family" out to kill. Read about it and you decide. This was a lifesaving measure and I'm proud of my Country for doing this. BTW, I'm a liberal.

 

[skydivr]

As a peace officer in a big city, the academy trained me in the following way....if I am chasing a person into an abandoned apartment building and I know him to have just murdered/raped/robbed, etc., when I locate him and if I have reasonable cause to believe he will murder/rape/rob again......then I am justified in using deadly force against him. This is a consistant point of law in 50 states.
The only difference in the drone situation is that it occured in another nation state. A reasonable and prudent man would conclude that the suspect was treasonous, which is punishable by death.
To those that say we are reacting to "just what CNN says", I would remind you that this enemy soldier published a terrorist newsletter explaining how to enter and kill innocent people in the USA. At least 3 terrorist incidents were directly attributed to this man (Ft. Dix, shoe bomber, New York vehicle bomb) and his dogma, evidence reveals mush more was to come. Very similar to the way Charles Manson sent "his family" out to kill. Read about it and you decide. This was a lifesaving measure and I'm proud of my Country for doing this. BTW, I'm a liberal.

Hell must be freezing over, because we FINALLY agree on something!

 

[E Zurcher]

If an American citizen is on the enemy line and points a gun at you......do you wait for a trial? No, you shoot the bastard. Same difference!

 

[Schexy1]

As far as the President violating the Constitutional Rights of one of its citizens is concerned, conviction and execution before trial for outlaws has been the American Way since the formation of our country. I don’t know if it is still used, but we all know where the term “Dead or Alive” comes from. Another president issued a dead or alive warrant for Bin-Laden.

Simply put, Due-Process is a right granted to all US citizens but, Due-Process is not once-sided. As citizens we have to surrender to warrants and submit to subpoenas for the system to work. If the citizen chooses to give up his right to due-process by not surrendering and violently defying a warrant that was issued should our government or police agencies allow them to engage in the acts that deemed them a criminal or outlaw?

The people who think due process was by-passed, has missed something. There were warrants issued for his arrest in several countries. There were subpoenas issued for him to appear in his trial. He chose to ignore them and continue to engage in the acts that were not only considered criminal but also acts of war.

For those who spoke about the incidents in Waco and other domestic locations, although I don’t agree with how the government handled some of the situations, I also believe that those individuals and groups should have complied with the warrants and subpoenas. Their actions played a part in the outcome.

 

[VaBusa]

It's not a popular subject, and may not be directly related, but jets were scrambled to potentially take down passenger planes on 9/11 that would have killed a lot of Americans to thwart more terrorist attacks. I think knowing what we know now post 9/11, those commands to shoot down a potential threat in the air, killing hundreds of Americans that aren't even a direct threat to other Americans, would come even faster now. That version of "killing Americans" is so much harder to digest and I think had the U.S. made that decision, we would be an even more divided nation. No one wants to kill our own, but oftentimes tough decisions have to be made and I'll be the first to say, I'm so glad I'm not the one having to make those types of decisions.

Having said that, I think radicalized Americans, either here or living in other countries, hell-bent on killing fellow Americans and our way of life are fair game and should be treated as we would treat any other terrorist. If we can get them alive, fine...if not, oh well...IMHO, the terrorist killed last week gave up every American right he had the second he turned on his country, left us behind to go hide in Yemen and opted to make it his mission in life to try to kill as many of us as he could, at any cost.

:2cents:

 

[skydivr]

Vabs is right. We spend more time hand-wringing of this PoS, than we might have to shoot down the plane with innocents abord to abort another act....

 

[cqt1414]

We should have captured him alive and brought him to California. He would be required to attend counseling and meetings with the Sierra Club. We would give him health care (conrad murray) and in-state tuition for his children’s education. I believe in rehabilitation, remember every life is precious! Now if you will excuse me I must get back to my protesting efforts of Wall Street. I don’t know exactly who I’m protesting or why, or what I’m hoping to accomplish, but it seems like a cool thing to do at the moment, or so I read.

 

[VaBusa]

We should have captured him alive and brought him to California. He would be required to attend counseling and meetings with the Sierra Club. We would give him health care (conrad murray) and in-state tuition for his children’s education. I believe in rehabilitation, remember every life is precious! Now if you will excuse me I must get back to my protesting efforts of Wall Street. I don’t know exactly who I’m protesting or why, or what I’m hoping to accomplish, but it seems like a cool thing to do at the moment, or so I read.

Love your last sentence...that should be on the t-shirts of so many these days

 

[VaBusa]

Vabs is right. We spend more time hand-wringing of this PoS, than we might have to shoot down the plane with innocents abord to abort another act....

Yeah, I was about to argue all sorts of points, but there are much worse scenarios involving "us killing Americans" that could face the U.S. and rip this country apart should they ever come to pass.

This guy turned on his own...he really doesn't deserve much more of my thought or time. I also don't mind the death penalty in our country, so I personally think there are plenty of Americans that should pay the ultimate price for their crimes anyway...I sleep pretty well at night with these truths

 

[Warchild]

We should have captured him alive and brought him to California. He would be required to attend counseling and meetings with the Sierra Club.

Holy fookin' crap..... the Sierra Club! ::9

That's some serious hard-core punishment, right there. Haaaaaaaaaard-core.

 

[captain]

We didn't seem to have a problem killing our citizens from this country in 1941 when thousands of German-Americans went back to Germany to fight the US. We didn't go out and try to bring them all back to the US for trial, we killed them right where they were.... Nothing different in current times... A born American US citizen goes to another country to fight against the US and plot how to kill Americans... Why should we put forth any effort or risk any US lives in a situation where we have very little chance of capturing him without some of our soldiers losing their lives...

Bosshound maybe we need to look back about 70 years before we decide that you and I just did something original in this country....

cap

 

[GNBRETT]

This Dead Terrorist WON !!! He accomplished his task..........................He got us to Break our own Rules. Personally I Feel Better now that he is Erased from the Earth. But at what Cost ? How can we look our selves in the eye and Defend the Constitution of the United States of America when we just killed one of it's own Citizens with out the 5th Amendment DUE PROCESS Right that we are defending in the First Place ?

Robert

Due process means in this instance that the government cannot arbitrarily punish people without acting on the authority of some written law. Just because you have left the active battlefield does not mean that you are not a target of war.

That was not a Police operation and does not fall under the same color of law as an ammendment of the constitution would if taking place here in the US. That was a MILITARY operation and he was determined to be an enemy combatant. He was an al-Qaida operative. That is a fact.

Under international law we as a country who are in good standing with the UN have the right right to self-defense under said law. He was a functional combatant in an organized armed group that has already demonstrated their ability and willingness to target and kill innocent American citizens vs. soldiers of war.

Perfectly legal and justified. Terroist lost.

 

[Bosshound]

Raydog agrees with Skydivr and Blanca Agrees with me........................WOW !!!!!!!! Hell must be freezing over for sure

Like I have said before. I am glad this guy is DEAD !!! Just don't agree on how it was done.

The last thing I want is to be accused of something then get shot for it only to find out I was Innocent in the first place because I didn't get a chance to prove my case in a court of Law.

Good Topic Doug

Robert

 

[skydivr]

Time just stopped in it's tracks

 

[Schexy1]

Raydog agrees with Skydivr and Blanca Agrees with me........................WOW !!!!!!!! Hell must be freezing over for sure

Like I have said before. I am glad this guy is DEAD !!! Just don't agree on how it was done.

The last thing I want is to be accused of something then get shot for it only to find out I was Innocent in the first place because I didn't get a chance to prove my case in a court of Law.

Good Topic Doug

Robert

It's not like they decided this guy was a threat Tuesday night and killed him Wednesday morning,they have been trying to get him for years. He had several chances to prove his innocence, there were several warrants for his arrest and there was a trial in Yemen. Instead of defending his innocense by turning himself in or showing up for his trial, he defied authority and continued to voice his support for the destruction of the US.

 

[TheAtomicAss]

In 2010, then-White House press secretary Robert Gibbs was asked about how “human rights lawyers were challenging the administration’s assertion that an American citizen can be targeted for killing overseas. Should Americans worry that if they go overseas, their own government could target them to be killed?â€

Americans should not be concerned that their "government" (which, I will point out, does not exist) could kill them overseas. They should be concerned, and have good reason to be, that they may be targeted by a terrorist organization masquerading as the aforementioned non-existent entity.

After Awlaki was designated a “specially designated global terrorist†by the Treasury Department, it became illegal for attorneys to represent him without permission from the Treasury Department’s Office of Foreign Assets Control.

WOAH, who now? What is this? The Treasury department, what? Add this to the list of "signs that you may have a terrorist organization"; no clear distinction between departments; any department setting policy designated for any other.

Writing in Salon today, Glenn Greenwald writes, “What’s most striking about this is not that the U.S. Government has seized and exercised exactly the power the Fifth Amendment was designed to bar (‘No person shall be deprived of life without due process of law’), and did so in a way that almost certainly violates core First Amendment protections (questions that will now never be decided in a court of law). What’s most amazing is that its citizens will not merely refrain from objecting, but will stand and cheer the U.S. Government’s new power to assassinate their fellow citizens, far from any battlefield, literally without a shred of due process from the U.S. Government. Many will celebrate the strong, decisive, Tough President’s ability to eradicate the life of Anwar al-Awlaki — including many who just so righteously condemned those Republican audience members as so terribly barbaric and crass for cheering Governor Perry’s execution of scores of serial murderers and rapists — criminals who were at least given a trial and appeals and the other trappings of due process before being killed.â€

BIG, BIG, BIG, BIG, BIG!

Now, I'm not sure exactly how much of my current mindset has made itself known here, but since I haven't been on much lately, I'll assume very little. I don't think Obama is the paradigm shift here; he's merely continuing what Bush was doing before him, just like every other "president" within my lifetime. There is no more United States of America, it's gone, it's dead, and if it ever lived, it died long before I was born. We live in a malevolent oligarchy.

/me goes out to hoist the black flag.

 

[Wrath]

Anytime an individual takes sides against the US to wage war with the US, I believe it should be the right of the President to revoke the right of Citizenship. Granted I think Our current President is the biggest idiot to have ever occupied the White House. He actually stepped up to the plate to defend this Nation so I for the first time would applaud one of his actions.

 

[Blanca BusaLess]

But whatever happened to backdoor assasinations? Why couldnt he have just died of 'food poisoning'?
No we have to publicly announce on the CNN ticker that another top al Qaeda member has been bit with a drone attack.

We should be taking lessons from the Soviet school of 'processing' folks.
A simple poke in the calf from an ops poison tipped umbrella or something?
Drone released rocket attacks are so passé these days. I want more cloak and dagger stuff.

Either that or we could have just hired Mossad to do it and it would have been done years ago!