Do You Believe In GOD ?

[99'busa]

just a though, look at what Gods son has done for man/woman. how do you think God felt to have his only son to be tortured and crucified, so we can can have ever lasting life.. would that be called unfair. Jesus only lived 33 years.. thats a very short life..
by the way yes I am saved and been baptized...
I know you cant force others to believe in what you believe, only other thing I can say is have an open heart..

:agree:

 

[99'busa]

To have his son tortured and crucified? Certainly wasn't helpless!

yep. yet he did it anyway

 

[KokomoBusa]

then, why is it called "Satanic" again?

If you read even the first 5 pages and stll have that question, i'll explain it fully. But it's simple explaination is, it's name is a slap in the face to believers because what they consider satanic (sexual lust, pride, anger...etc), Lavey considers to be basic human feelings. He thinks rather than hiding them, even though they inevitably WILL exist in a persons concience, that we should embrace them. So long as those needs don't harm or infringe on anyone else. He believes in Indulgence instead of abstinance....If you like spanking during sex....just say you like it. Don't lie about or make excuses about how you were beat as a child. You like spanking, it doesn't harm anyone else, good for you. (that was an example and not directed at anyone)

Hope that kinda answers for you.

 

[99'busa]

You're warning isn't really needed. Anton Lavey (author of the satanic bible) is a fairly intelligent man and knows that convincing someone that their faith is wrong is near impossible to do. So he doesn't even try. Not really any worry of being led astray.

The book from the very first page states very clearly that it is for atheists and not everybody will get the actual message from it. It's not a form of trickery to convert believers. Just a structured text for those who are already nonbelievers. Touches on "doing for yourself" and indulging in human urges so long as no one who is unwilling to participate is affected.

But like I said in my last post, a believer would have to be able to look past the name of it, and lose the misconception that maybe an evil spirit sent it to earth to trick the righteous into a wicked existance. Take it for what it is. It's the angry precursor to passive athiesm. As a large majority of atheists go though an angry phase in which they feel that all believers are crazy. But with time a age most will grow out of that. To each his own.

an interesting read nonetheless. Should any believers read it send me a pm on what you think...or post it if you want. I'm just curious as to how it's viewed and interpretted by you.

I hope I didn't lose any friends though all of this. But honestly, it kinda feels good to get that off of my chest. I like it out in the open and people can either choose to like me for me or dislike me for my beliefs.

Sounds more of a book on how to serve self. We all love ourselves thats human nature. So a book telling us it's okay to do whatever you want as long as it hurts no one else would be easy to agree with.

Gotta ask yourself this first. Do you believe in heaven and hell? Where do you think your going to go? Why do you think your going to go there?

then I'm going to go back some pages and find a good post by another Indiana guy that might help a little.

 

[99'busa]

As a new member to the org. I appreciate even more to hear that the "leader"/ owner of this site is born again believer in Jesus Christ!!
The Bible tells us that "unless a man be born again he shall not see the kingdom of God." That verse is in John 4.

Earlier in this thread someone brought up the ten commandments and how they are just a bunch of rules and God telling us what we have to do.

Romans 2 tells us that "the law of the 10 commandments are like a schoolmaster that bring us to Christ"

The "sole" purpose of the Ten Commandments are to show us the sin in our life. Many people are offended when someone comes off as religious by telling them they are sinners. Most all people think they are "good" and somehow that "goodness" will get them into heaven. God doesn't have some big scale in heaven to weigh all of our good works and stuff we did wrong.

Do you want to take a test? Do you think you are a good person? Do you think you have kept the 10 commandments?

1) Have you ever lied? If you were honest you would have to say that would make you a liar....
2) Have you ever looked upon a women with lust? The bible calls that "adultery" remember not my definition but the Bibles...
3) Have you ever stolen anything? If you were honest that would make you a thief.
4) Have you ever used God's name as a four letter curse word? The Bible calls that "blasphemy"

So by your own admission you are a lying, thieving, adulterer at heart, who has blasphemed God?

These are only 4 out of the 10---

If you were to be judged by God (not man) based just on what we talked about would you be innocent or guilty?

Based on just what we talked about would you go to heaven or hell? (remember God is a just and righteous God but He is still a judge and must punish--just like a judge in our system would not be a "good or just judge" if he let those that were guilty go without punishment.

If you answered guilty and hell--does that concern you?

If it does the Gospel has been shared over and over already tonight--Jesus and his death, shed blood, and most importantly his power over death in the resurrection--it is not about YOU--it is about what He has done for you.

To recieve Christ there is no special prayer--just a repentant heart (one that wants to turn from sin) and ask for forgiveness and He will be faithful to do that.

If you said innocent and heaven-==just keep going through the law--you see being "good" is subjective--being seen by God as righteous through the death of his Son is objective. When God destroys pride then you will be ready to accept God's grace.

I am excited about my life in Christ---I will not judge unbelievers--I leave that up to God! Not only is owning a busa a blessing being part of this forum is too!

I hope this helps someone.

 

[KokomoBusa]

Sounds more of a book on how to serve self. We all love ourselves thats human nature. So a book telling us it's okay to do whatever you want as long as it hurts no one else would be easy to agree with.

Gotta ask yourself this first. Do you believe in heaven and hell? Where do you think your going to go? Why do you think your going to go there?

then I'm going to go back some pages and find a good post by another Indiana guy that might help a little.

Yeah it's easy to agree with....but so is the bible. I agree with a huge majority of the moral messages contained in the bible. But it doesn't lead me to believe in God or heaven/hell. I would think that a person of faith could also agree with something in an opposing text but not be led to deny the existance of God.

I'm an overly objective person though and make a great effort to try to understand "the other guys". So if I'm wrong in my assumption then i appologize for recommending the book at all. I'm not trying to change anyone's life, just want to show them their opposition in the form of a well thought out writing vice an arguement.

 

[99'busa]

Yeah it's easy to agree with....but so is the bible. I agree with a huge majority of the moral messages contained in the bible. But it doesn't lead me to believe in God or heaven/hell. I would think that a person of faith could also agree with something in an opposing text but not be led to deny the existance of God.

I'm an overly objective person though and make a great effort to try to understand "the other guys". So if I'm wrong in my assumption then i appologize for recommending the book at all. I'm not trying to change anyone's life, just want to show them their opposition in the form of a well thought out writing vice an arguement.

I see where your coming from. I nor do I think anyone else could find offense in anything youve said. I appreciate your openness.

 

[KokomoBusa]

I see where your coming from. I nor do I think anyone else could find offense in anything youve said. I appreciate your openness.

HUG ME!!

 

[99'busa]

 

[Wag]

But when you do that you do have to be strong in your faith and you need to try and look at everything with an open mind.

While having a strong faith is generally a good thing (going to work because you have faith that you'll be paid, for example) many times a strong faith and an open mind are mutually exclusive. I recall quite clearly when I was still a believer that when I would read something contrary to my faith, my mind would snap shut and I would gloss over it. Cognitive dissonance would kick in in a big way.

Eventually, of course, open-mindedness prevailed.

I will say, however, that open-mindedness can have its own pitfalls as well and people can be blown about by the whims of every thought and philosophy that comes along. Critical thinking can be an art.

What it boils down to is values. If your faith and religion and belief shore up good values for you, then you're doing good. On the other hand, if religion and it's attendant beliefs and faith are tearing down your values then it's time to re-evaluate.

The good thing about a discussion like this is that it's possible to explore other thought processes and see how they fit with your values.

--Wag--

 

[KokomoBusa]

While having a strong faith is generally a good thing (going to work because you have faith that you'll be paid, for example) many times a strong faith and an open mind are mutually exclusive. I recall quite clearly when I was still a believer that when I would read something contrary to my faith, my mind would snap shut and I would gloss over it. Cognitive dissonance would kick in in a big way.

Eventually, of course, open-mindedness prevailed.

I will say, however, that open-mindedness can have its own pitfalls as well and people can be blown about by the whims of every thought and philosophy that comes along. Critical thinking can be an art.

What it boils down to is values. If your faith and religion and belief shore up good values for you, then you're doing good. On the other hand, if religion and it's attendant beliefs and faith are tearing down your values then it's time to re-evaluate.

The good thing about a discussion like this is that it's possible to explore other thought processes and see how they fit with your values.

--Wag--

Point well made, and you said "Cognitive dissonance" hehe...i'm impressed!

 

[Wag]

Regarding the Satanic Bible, I'll say, first of all, that I haven't taken the time to read it. My reasons are very similar to why I don't give a lot of credence to the Bible: It's the people. On the rare occasions when I've read some of their web site or talked to some of their people, they have a tendency to be overbearing and condescending. Just like any group, of course. I've seen much of their tenets in their web sites and I think that the biggest problem I have with them is that they are offensive to humanity.

It's not so much that everything they say is patently evil because much of what they say is actually very good and supports the aforementioned beneficient value systems of many good people. The problem is, they don't do themselves any favors because of their approach.

In reality, I firmly believe that there is good to be had from LaVey's book and his group, but you really have to peek through the chaff to get a glimpse of it. Same thing with most religions, however. There is good philosophy and values in most things so long as you can dispense with the crap along the way to discovering it.

Therein, of course, is the rub. As we attempt to hold to values and beliefs which are good, are we able to get rid of the junk that comes along with it?

--Wag--

 

[Wag]

Point well made, and you said "Cognitive dissonance" hehe...i'm impressed!

I dunno if it's all that impressive! It took me a long time to understand the concept. Of course, I've speculated on the potential benefits of having been subjected to it over a long part of my life but the fact that it finally breaks down into either realization or insanity is a good indicator that it's problems outweigh any minor benefits it might have had. Benefits which, of course, can be had in other, better ways.

--Wag--

 

[WWJD]

if I have this all strait now:

The Bible is believed to be the "devine words of god" by many, just fiction by others, but it preaches a lifestyle of turning the other cheek and being good to others

The satanic bible, is a retooling of self centeredness, written by one guy, a highly intelligent, ex circus freak, wannabee psychic, who cheats on his wiveS

one has hundreds of years of proven, applicable, POSITIVE influence for people, and the other has a couple decades of "Cultish" status, but it "makes sense" to some people....

now, which one is REALLY more worth your time reading? Really now. WHY would I give the satanic Bible one minute of my life, given it's track record and author alone? naw.

for other interesting "written by one guy" books, check out the Book of Mormon, Dianetics, Davinci Code

 

[KokomoBusa]

if I have this all strait now:

The Bible is believed to be the "devine words of god" by many, just fiction by others, but it preaches a lifestyle of turning the other cheek and being good to others

The satanic bible, is a retooling of self centeredness, written by one guy, a highly intelligent, ex circus freak, wannabee psychic, who cheats on his wiveS

one has hundreds of years of proven, applicable, POSITIVE influence for people, and the other has a couple decades of "Cultish" status, but it "makes sense" to some people....

now, which one is REALLY more worth your time reading? Really now. WHY would I give the satanic Bible one minute of my life, given it's track record and author alone? naw.

for other interesting "written by one guy" books, check out the Book of Mormon, Dianetics, Davinci Code

Sorry to see you so fired up about this...like I said it's just a book that shows the other side. and in all fairness to an athiest the bible has NO track record. it's just older. I couldn't even tell you what any of the authors looked like or if they cheated on their wives. Not because they didn't...but because no one knows.

and one more time, i'm not going to try to convince anyone to read it. I merely suggested it for those who are open minded and maybe have a small part thats interested in what the book is actually about. Time and time again in post after post you've proven yourself to be quite a hot tempered guy when anyone disagrees with your faith so trust me, I have NO expectations for you to provide any useful input.

last point...just cause I feel like I need to state it again...I don't claim to be a satanist...but i've read the book, and i've read teh bible. In my opinion good things can be taken from both.

 

[99'busa]

If someone does not believe in God at all or heaven and hell than there is no point in proving the legitimacy of the Holy bible. Even still you have the facts of Jesus. The historical facts that coincide with the Bible. Even other religions don't deny Jesus or that he raised from the dead. They just feel he was a great profit???

IF the believers in Jesus are right that all the Athiests, Agnostics, muslims, satanists, ect...will go to HELL.

IF the believers in Jesus are WRONG than no harm no foul.

So one side has NOTHING to loose.

Maybe everyone owes it to theirselves to make SURE they are right. Because it's much more than just life or death on the line.

 

[KokomoBusa]

If someone does not believe in God at all or heaven and hell than there is no point in proving the legitimacy of the Holy bible. Even still you have the facts of Jesus. The historical facts that coincide with the Bible. Even other religions don't deny Jesus or that he raised from the dead. They just feel he was a great profit???

IF the believers in Jesus are right that all the Athiests, Agnostics, muslims, satanists, ect...will go to HELL.

IF the believers in Jesus are WRONG than no harm no foul.

So one side has NOTHING to loose.

Maybe everyone owes it to theirselves to make SURE they are right. Because it's much more than just life or death on the line.

I'll start by saying a "just in case" christian isn't a christian at all.

as far as other religions not denying Jesus...you're right. More than likely because before Jesus ever existed, those other religions also had "sons of god" who were born of a virgin on the winter solstace, all of whom started their own ministries, all were betrayed, all were crucified, and all had risen from the dead. Horus, mythra, kryshna, attis..etc.

Does that disprove Jesus' existance? Does it discredit the bible? Does it display mans tendancy to create creators? To an athiest yes...to a Christian absolutely not.

Fact is NO scripture will ever "save" a true atheist and likewise no scripture will ever "release" a true Christian.

I know it's different for a Christian to view the bible as just another book, but that's how I see it. So it's not difficult for me to read a Holy Bible, Satanic Bible, Mixologists Bible, or News Week.

I simply put out a request...if any Christians DO find themselves reading the Satanic Bible, whether it be for curiousity or any other reason, I'd like to know what they as a believer in God thought of it. And ultimately if they think it's an athiests book, a trick of the devil (for lack of better terms), or if they even think there's a difference....

That's all i'm after, I don't expect all Christians to be willing to read it. but I can't express how useless it is to proffess your spiritual strength to the matter. For what i'm asking, it serves no purpose other than to state that you're not willing to read it. Those words can be typed easily enough without the quoting of scripture or the pointing of fingers.

 

[99'busa]

I'll start by saying a "just in case" christian isn't a christian at all.

as far as other religions not denying Jesus...you're right. More than likely because before Jesus ever existed, those other religions also had "sons of god" who were born of a virgin on the winter solstace, all of whom started their own ministries, all were betrayed, all were crucified, and all had risen from the dead. Horus, mythra, kryshna, attis..etc.

Does that disprove Jesus' existance? Does it discredit the bible? Does it display mans tendancy to create creators? To an athiest yes...to a Christian absolutely not.

Fact is NO scripture will ever "save" a true atheist and likewise no scripture will ever "release" a true Christian.

I know it's different for a Christian to view the bible as just another book, but that's how I see it. So it's not difficult for me to read a Holy Bible, Satanic Bible, Mixologists Bible, or News Week.

I simply put out a request...if any Christians DO find themselves reading the Satanic Bible, whether it be for curiousity or any other reason, I'd like to know what they as a believer in God thought of it. And ultimately if they think it's an athiests book, a trick of the devil (for lack of better terms), or if they even think there's a difference....

That's all i'm after, I don't expect all Christians to be willing to read it. but I can't express how useless it is to proffess your spiritual strength to the matter. For what i'm asking, it serves no purpose other than to state that you're not willing to read it. Those words can be typed easily enough without the quoting of scripture or the pointing of fingers.

Your right about a just in case Christian. What I meant by "just in case" was merely do some good research. The other religions dont have hundreds of witnesses to the miracle.

For a Christian to read a Satanic Bible is not a great idea. I'm not gonna retype what Thrash said but just add that all other bibles should be read by Christians for info. purposes only to help them understand better for witnessing purposes. IF you dont know your own bible than its a dangerous path to go down.

Christians do have rules to abide by (to not sin) but human nature and evil influences are always tempting you. A bible that teaches to "self endulge" is anti-Christ. Meaning against Christ's law.

No we dont have it easy by any means. We have to make sacrifices and deny ourselves of lustful things. But there are also rewards for it.


I would be willing to read your book Jeff if you'd loan it to me sometime and give you my honest humble opinion on it. I will also give the org. an honest review of the book.

Satan IS as real as Jesus. He is NOT going to make a book that blatently comes out saying worship me. If he can get people to serve themselves instead of God then he has acomplished all he desires.

 

[KokomoBusa]

Your right about a just in case Christian. What I meant by "just in case" was merely do some good research. The other religions dont have hundreds of witnesses to the miracle.

For a Christian to read a Satanic Bible is not a great idea. I'm not gonna retype what Thrash said but just add that all other bibles should be read by Christians for info. purposes only to help them understand better for witnessing purposes. IF you dont know your own bible than its a dangerous path to go down.

Christians do have rules to abide by (to not sin) but human nature and evil influences are always tempting you. A bible that teaches to "self endulge" is anti-Christ. Meaning against Christ's law.

No we dont have it easy by any means. We have to make sacrifices and deny ourselves of lustful things. But there are also rewards for it.


I would be willing to read your book Jeff if you'd loan it to me sometime and give you my honest humble opinion on it. I will also give the org. an honest review of the book.

Satan IS as real as Jesus. He is NOT going to make a book that blatently comes out saying worship me. If he can get people to serve themselves instead of God then he has acomplished all he desires.

I don't own it, but i can probably find a pda online.

Man, it's really really really hard to not let this topic turn into a fight.

and thanks for being patient with me.

 

[99'busa]

I don't own it, but i can probably find a pda online.

Man, it's really really really hard to not let this topic turn into a fight.

and thanks for being patient with me.

well we've had 19 pages and all have been understanding of everyone. More than I can say for those political threads

I'll see if I can find a free online copy or something to.