Downshift without the clutch a problem?

[Zee]

Hello everyone. So this sunday me and my buddy were out riding. Every thing was fine until I accidently downshift from 5th to 4th without pulling my clutch in. And to my surprise, nothing happened. No jerky shaky or weird noise from the transmission. Is it something normal on busas? Can we up or downshift without the clutch?
Thanks

 

[WuzzaCBXRider]

Hello everyone. So this sunday me and my buddy were out riding. Every thing was fine until I accidently downshift from 5th to 4th without pulling my clutch in. And to my surprise, nothing happened. No jerky shaky or weird noise from the transmission. Is it something normal on busas? Can we up or downshift without the clutch?
Thanks

View attachment 1625915

Upshifting w/o pulling the clutch lever works very well. Just easing off the throttle just a tad and up shifting is perfect. Some years back I read where downshifting isn’t good for the tranny but I can’t recall exactly why. It’s happened to me a couple times and I didn’t think the drivetrain liked it. You may‘ve lucked out and the engine speed/ground speed were close to ideal.

 

[Berlin Germany]

i personally recommend NOT to shift without pulling the lever a standard transmission- wether up nor down.

up shifting can work fine,
if you hit at the best rpm and close throttle for less than a second / releasing force in the transmission.
(in very seldom situations i do so too - for instance when rolling on the country road, left hand off the bar and too lazy to reach at the bar for pulling the lever, but never when strongly accelerating)
like wuzza wrote above

Upshifting w/o pulling the clutch lever works very well. Just easing off the throttle just a tad (...)

down shifting may! work sometimes! by big luck! - usually the trans gives you the bad noise that it don´t like it.

both, up ´n down shifting without pulling the lever can cause the pics i posted here.
so i strongly advice against it caused by the expected costs, when cams at the gear wheels are demaged - see same post.
______________________________________

downshifting with a best adjusted QS should work fine - they say -, but i personally do not trust the system.

but - as so many times here too - each at his own.

 

[fallenarch]

I personally think QS systems are ok. I have talked to a lot of pretty knowledgeable people and most say a properly adjusted QS does not significantly damage the trans. The catch there is properly adjusted. Most QS are designed for maximum acceleration which means upshifting within a certain RPM range. So most QS technology is really a racing oriented application not so well suited to the wide range of operation on the street. Ideally the QS' computer would look at RPM and adjust the fuel/spark cutoff accordingly, but most aftermarket units are not that smart. They are setup for a specific RPM range which is generally a bit quick for slower shifting below the target RPM range.

Downshifting is a bit more complicated. It involves matching RPM to the anticipated gear and on the street, you may downshift more than one gear while the clutch is pulled. Again, the QS is designed to keep the bike stable on downshifts in a racing situation, and is less effective without an auto-blipper to match engine RPM to the gear selected.

Anyway, I have heard a lot of claims from rider's opinions to mechanics on engine damage. I think I believe that QS systems do slightly accelerate wear on the trans and reduce clutch wear. But the wear is not huge compared to the fun factor.

 

[Bumblebee]

My bike has had a QS on it for quite some time with ZERO issues. It likes a little rpm when shifting though, if I'm putting along I use the clutch, if I'm accelerating with even a little authority, it works perfectly with no problem at all. It is an up only shifter however and just like @WuzzaCBXRider mentioned, you have to really match rpms with road speed if you downshift without using a clutch-I do this periodically.

On other bikes I owned, I rarely used the clutch for upshifts as all modern bikes have syncro transmissions and most are wet clutches. I've never had any transmission woes on any bike I've owned (knock on wood) including my former GSXR race bike which I basically only used the clutch to launch.

I do find with the Hayabusa, I have to use the clutch (even with QS) for shifts from 1-2 and 5-6 as sometimes it will hit the false neutral peridically.

 

[fallenarch]

Remember also that QS systems are pretty much standard on most modern bikes. They pretty much work just like the aftermarket ones by cutting fuel or spark. Those bikes are all fully warranted and use trans designed pre-QS in many cases. So again, some wear probably but safe IMHO.

 

[bigdr]

Up and down without clutch , always done it this way , unless i'm ragging it then I use the QS going up . And only 3 to 6 and the same back .

 

[rubbersidedown]

For the average everyday rider I would ask why

When it works fine and smooth...cool.
When it doesn't...it doesn't. Risk vs reward. Common sense. To your question @Zee no biggie,just don't make a habit of it.
For me...in a heated "street fight" I shift without the clutch,have no fancy thing-a-ma-bob, but do have all race cut gears in my trans.
Rubb.

 

[michael parris heuberger]

For the average everyday rider I would ask why View attachment 1625922
When it works fine and smooth...cool.
When it doesn't...it doesn't. Risk vs reward. Common sense. To your question @Zee no biggie,just don't make a habit of it.
For me...in a heated "street fight" I shift without the clutch,have no fancy thing-a-ma-bob, but do have all race cut gears in my trans.
Rubb.

Hi. I only use the clutch to stop and take off. I do this with all my bikes even my HD. I also do the same with my cars and trucks. In my KW I love to shift with the Jake Brake on.

 

[202mphbusa]

32,000 miles on the original busa trans clutch is only for stop lights and LAUNCHING
up and down shifts have NEVER seen the clutch

Also I do not ride with my toe on the shifter

 

[stangman327]

"I also do the same with my cars and trucks. In my KW I love to shift with the Jake Brake on."

 

[Mythos]

a lot of pretty knowledgeable people and most say a properly adjusted QS does not significantly damage the trans. The catch there is properly adjusted. Most QS are designed for maximum acceleration which means upshifting within a certain RPM range.

I have an HM quickshifter on my ZX-14 and I can tell you if you don't already know, PROPERLY adjusted is the key. The big ZX-14 transmission is not as slick as a 600 sport bike. You would think it should be since it's made for drag racing but no way. I have my shifter set on 60 or 65 mls kill time and that's fine for 5000 rpm and lower but it will hit a false Neutral or worse, BANG back into the previous gear at higher rpm and and WOT half the time with a shift that fast. Some shifters might have multiple kill times for different rpm ranges and that would be best. Maybe some even can sense load on the engine. All those things matter. I hear people using 90 mls for the ZX-14 to shift at higher rpm and when I tried that, I felt a jerk when the ignition came back on. That didn't seem good on the transmission either. The Bazzaz was a realy state of the art shifter ten years ago and I doubt there is much better even today but you still might not be able to adjust it so that it suits every shifting situation. I only shift clutchless occasionally. I found small chunks of steel come out in my oil changes for a while after each time I banged the transmission.

 

[ottafish]

I have a QS on the busa and I must admit, it's a hoot under acceleration. Just never stops pulling. My QS kill times are configurable per gear with 3D maps allowing kill times to be set for the full range of TPS and RPM combinations. The quickshifter kills both fuel and ignition. Never misses a beat..

 

[Dennis]

I air shifted a stock Gen2 transmission for 4500 1/4 mile passes and it is still fine. That's about 6800 miles on the odometer, then the rings got tired. I installed a Pro-street cut trans to shorten kill times. There is no issue upshifting if done properly. It doesn't matter if you break torque with the throttle, or a kill, just do it right.

On my KLX dirtbike I up and down shift without the clutch at lower rpms, which is pretty much all the time. Upshift at any rpm with the usual throttle blip. It's fine.