SCHNITZ CLUTCH MOD REPORT

[OB_speed]

Yep. Leave the bike on the bike kickstand /sidestand. Remove the right fairing. and remove the clutch cover. You can even reuse the clucth cover gasket.

No draining the oil required first.

Do Not use centerstand, I dont have one and have never used it. But I am guessing it wouldnt work that way.

 

[OB_Cisco San Jose]

Thanks for the info on the clutch mods,I would do it but since I ride in the rain and I like to down shift alot I do not want to have my rear wheel grab so hard which might cause me to spin out.

 

[OB_Dirty Pete]

Animal: Speed's up to speed. Don't use your center stand or you'll lose some oil. It's simple. No special tools...you don't have to take the clutch plates out either.

Yngve: You're inferring too much if you think I was saying YOU couldn't do it. I said you need a machine shop and expert welding. If you CAN do it so the clutch doesn't vibrate and destroy bearings...more power (and money) to you!

 

[Guest]

For Dirty Pete, since my bike (TLR) supposedly has the same clutch as the 'Busa, I am interested in the clutch spring washers you mentioned.

Most of the TLR guys have clutch problems, with the torque making the clutch slip at full throttle at 7000rpm.

Apparently Suzuki released improved springs, the ones with the pink paint stripe, and these fix the prob.

A lot of TLR guys put washers in, but 3/8 inch sounds pretty scary! The going thickness seems to be about 1/16th.

Does it run close to coil bind?? How is the lever pull on your muscles when riding the track, etc?? Was it a measured 3/8 inch??

 

[OB_Dirty Pete]

99TLR: I didn't measure the 3/8", just eyeballed it. Could be 1/4" or 5/16" I suppose. These are true billet spacers, not just stamped washers. If you need reassurance on the correct thickness, Schnitz will tell you over the phone.

They're offered separately for $21.95 for 6. Go to dragbike.com/schnitz then to new products. If you order them, be sure to ask Schnitz to send their free catalogue with your order.

There is no coil binding.

I haven't been on the track with it yet as I just put the clutch mod in yesterday, but if you ride every day your hand muscles will come up to speed in a few days.

If I were in your place, I'd go for the new factory springs then you know it's done right.

Good luck solving your slip.


[This message has been edited by Dirty Pete (edited 30 September 1999).]

 

[OB_KawAbuser]

Well the dealer asked me not to say any thing about the New Hampshire owners name. I have to respect that, we all do stupid stuff but do we try to blame Suzuki for our mistakes - NO WE DON'T.

When you buy a bike it is yours to mess with all you want, but when you try to blame the Mfg. and Dealer for your self-prescribed stupidity then it is a differant story. I am sure this individual is sad enough by now and doesn't need any more salt in his gapeing wounded wallet. Maybe he can offer his counterpoint here, if he has one. But I would not count on it.

I was just pointing out that some stuff is better left to pro's. And don't get cheap when it comes to your bike, it is not worth it. Schnitz/Davidson is looking for what a couple hundred bucks, sort of looks cheap in comparison to a motor full of schrapnel.

Go back and read the first line of Dirty Pete's post, I think he said it best.

Frank any thoughts on this one?


[This message has been edited by KawAbuser (edited 01 October 1999).]

 

[OB_ZX-12]

Sorry bud, Suzuki is to blame. The TLR has had clutch problems since it hit the road way before the busa (even TLR said this read above) my buddy loves his TLR but even he says the clutch is junk. The bean counters decided to save money and Suzuk used the same clutch internals that could not handle the torque on a TLR on a more powerful engine....... I am not saying what he did is not stupid but a great man once said "stupid is as stupid does". Not only that you should not have to pay to "fix" a clutch on an 11k motorcycle...... This is why bike owners need to band together crap like this happens all the time on new models. All because some dipshit MBA in product development sees a way to save some money. He or she should hang and Suzuk should stand behind their product.

 

[Guest]

I think Suzuki is more willing to stand behind their products/parts that have NOT been altered by the buyer to resemble something that Suzuki didn't manufacture?

 

[OB_maui]

Dirty Pete

That weld sounds more like a MIG weld. TIG (tungsten inert gas) welding is more precise in that you have active control over amperage and material feed. On steel, weld pools are usually 1/8 to3/16 in diameter. When you get stuff done, ask to see a TIG welder if you get the chance. My welding machine is a Miller Dialarc HF-P. Amperage is controlled with a foot pedal so if you're running to hot or cold you can trim with the pedal. The heat range goes from 10 -310 amps (.6 will kill you). At full power you can cut into a big piece of aluminum (like a cylinder head), or turn it down far enough to weld two soda cans together (.005" thick).

MIG (mechanical inert gas) welding is a little more common to find and quite a bit easier to use. It's adequate in most circumstances. This is a welding gun with a trigger. A spool of wire feeds through the gun to provide filler material (Vs hand feed on TIG). Amperage and wire speeds are set at the machine, so you have stop welding to change them. Weld pools run a little larger, 3/8" is very common.

TIG is ALWAYS superior.

 

[OB_ZX-12]

Maui:

Do you know of any on-line forums to post millers for sale? My father has a small shop and he is looking to unass the following. His shop is outside of Providence RI.

1995 Supermax YCN - 40 CNC Milling Machine with tooling
3 Axis $15,00.00

Eagel Veri- speed mill W/Anilam Crusader series -M control
3 Axis CNC $ 12,000.00

 

[OB_maui]

1995 Supermax YCN - 40 CNC Milling Machine with tooling
3 Axis $15,00.00

Boy I hope you got that decimal in the wrong place cause pops will get run over buy every one trying to pick that bugger up.

There are a ton of CNC shops in RI. He should have no trouble unloading those units.

15K is a bargain price. Depends how good the tooling is too.

I'll bet Duc man could further enlighten you on these items. My milling machine is hand controlled, stuff from the early 1800s I think. It's equal to a #2 Bridgeport.

 

[OB_Dirty Pete]

This is mainly for 99TLR who has the TLR clutch plague.

I was speaking not an hour ago with a clever young bike mechanic and told him I did the Schnitz mod. This set him off on a rant about the problems with the TLR back-slip clutch.

He says he knows how to fix this problem, and has done so for several TLR owners. He also says that Suzuki does not know how to fix the problem and that's why they've been issuing new clutches to customers who complain. The new clutches of course just last 5k and the slipping starts again.

I'm going to tell you what he told me, but understand that I don't know bupkus about trannies, so I'm basically aping words he told me, and some of those words may not be remembered correctly. If you know your trannies, my babbling may make some sense to you.

He says the problem is not with spring strengths, plates or the things that people keep looking to for a solution. He says the problem is a design flaw in the shaft or middle detente ramp that carries the back-slip cam.

This shaft wears and loses diameter, allowing the back-slip cam to move too far so that the back-slip cam never lets the clutch fully engage. The fix is to shim up the back-slip cam to prevent the extra movement.

If any of that made sense to you great, because it don't mean squat to me.

If it helps you or any other TLR owners out there, that's great too.

I'm going back to making jokes about 2%ers.

 

[OB_maui]

OK 2%ers walk in to a bar and ask for a drink, The bar tender says…

Damn, I forgot the punch line,

 

[OB_ZX-12]

I remember those machines from high school metal shop class. Guys would change the chuck and forget the box wrench on the top, start milling and the next thing you know the wrench is flying across the shop. We really thought it was funny at the time....dipshits.

Fifteen bucks would be a bargain wouldn't it. The tools are in good shape and the price is reasonable although you have to change tools manually. I will put it in a local trade mag.

 

[Frank Adams]

kawabuser: i didn't read everybodies reply
and i'm a little lost on this one.

i don't understand who your talking about
protecting somebodies name.

who are you talking about?

as far as suzuki and thier clutch setup goes,i think they went with what they did for driveablity. to create less stress on the rest of the parts.
also i think they were leaning towards the roadracers all the way on the clutch.
thier the ones that will benifit from it the most.
as far as what brock did with the clutch, that in my opinion is just a temporary cure until something better comes along. it just lets the dragracer do what he needs to at the dragstrip or streetrace. if you don't do either one of those then i wouldn't see any need in doing the mod.

 

[OB_KawAbuser]

Frank, I am meerly pointing out some bonehead who reads a post quickly, then thinks he is a machinist. Then when he realizes he is clueless and screwed up his motor he blames Suzuki, when he could of paid a lousy $200 and got what he wanted in the first place. Now the jerk goes to the dealer and tries to pull a fast one on the shop.

Frank, you and others have spent considerable money and time to mod your bikes. If something you did messed up would you expect Suzuki to pay?

Let this idiot move on to a new bike, all he will do now is bash the Dealer and Suzuki. Nobody screwed up but him by reading something here and then trying the home remidy. A few posts back the clutch mod was refered to be a simple pull out the welder project, it isn't that simple.

This is a true story, Ted any comment?

 

[OB_Dirty Pete]

Yes well, I uhhh, did try the machine, the welding machine you know they said it would work underwater, just take the oxygen right out of the water you know, but there she was knocking on the window trying to get out and those two little parts they just kept jumping out of my hands.

When I went back to Hyannis Port they took that little part I made and dropped it on the carpet and it broke in two so I never got to see if it would make that hayabusa vehicle they gave me go faster.

I was not in the New Hampshire primary or in any part of New Hampshire at the time you are accusing me of being there because I was not there at the time.

If you and the other media are trying to hang this backyard welding rap on me, well, I refer you to my record and I will stand on that.

 

[OB_ZX-12]

What a piece of crap talkin bad about Suzuki, his dealer and the Busa!!! Did he do all that in one day??? I want his address so I can drive to NH tonight and toilet paper his mailbox. I am so pissed I might even wax his windows!!!

 

[OB_Dirty Pete]

MAUI, I suspect that the Schnitz mod welding was done with some very sophisticated welding equipment.

Essentially, it's an inner cam welded to a tight fitting outer cam. Schnitz' supplier has welded them together not with a full circle weld along the entire 360 degree contact point, but with just three 3/8" diameter spot welds.

But there's something different about these spot welds. The weld has DEEPLY cratered the case-hardened cam steel and left a perfectly smooth puddle in the middle of the crater. Much more than any normal spot weld.

It looks to me like this was a very fast, very high-heat weld used to prevent the work from overheating and deforming. Is that a TIG weld?

 

[OB_speed]

Opps I stand corrected.. I do have pink marks on my springs. I looke at it last night.

And as for the welding equipment I dont think its any different than a normal welding machine. You have to center it and weld it careful as not to dislodge it while you weld it. ie the out cam wil have to be supened so that inner cam can set flush into the outercam. Any good welder can do it if they take their time.

I am no welding expert but I have seen this welding done, not at schnitz. And the parts are still in service today