EV vehicles

[–0——0–]

Ok

 

[TallTom]

Ok

Believe it or not I do want EVs to be a practical choice. They do offer lots of positives that can help the entire car market. And I think it will succeed by the likes of Toyota or maybe one of the American Big 3 bringing it to market. At this stage I think Toyota has the best approach. They all have the size to carry EVs thru development and acceptance way more than TESLA does.

In the end it has to be a practical alternative for the consumer. EVs aren't the total solution.

But let's not try and put lipstick on a pig and call it something it's not. The EV Van Ford thought would sell, will only sell if you can keep its workspace in a small radius. And even then, it needs to be economically competitive as it's gas counterpart. It simply isn't. Ford can only expect so much stupidity in the consumer. The consumer has made it pretty clear, Ford is putting lipstick on a pig.

5% of your sales totals makes this an experiment.

 

[Oz22]

Those Mach Es aren't selling around here....the dealership is chocked full of them and are worried........They also have a few Lightnings they can't sell....

Perhaps the "special team" Ford is putting together is gearing towards a hybrid? These make far more sense than a full electric vehicle....

I am interested to see how the Ram hybrid works out (of course I have very little faith in Stellantis as a company).

The hybrid is cute, but it's really just a Gas car with the complication of having an electric component. They are taking off mostly because of all the world ending hype, people want to do something, but don't want to be inconvenienced. In that respect the cars are really a waste of money, when the electric component in them dies, then what? Oh they'll probably continue to gain market share if they can still function normally when the batteries die or if the batteries can be replaced cheaply.

Just look at the home recycling mania that took off 40 years ago, people still slavishly wash out their plastic bottles and fold their newspapers into the bin even though it's been proven it's a total waste of time and money with half or better ending up in the landfill. As long as there is no obvious downside to the consumer this sort of crap continues and the corporations can continue to sell everything in plastic packaging. How many people know that nearly all of the liquid components of frac gas goes into making plastics? It's not good for anything else and saves corporation a fortune over using traditional glass and waxed paper alternatives.

Although the connection between plastics and fracking may seem obscure, ethane, a gas liquid produced through natural gas fracking, is currently stimulating increases in world plastics production From cheap ethane to a plastic planet
Of course the government counts this as oil equivalents and adds it to the nations total production as though you can drive a tractor on it. Lies Lies and more Lies.

 

[Bumblebee]

The hybrid is cute, but it's really just a Gas car with the complication of having an electric component. They are taking off mostly because of all the world ending hype, people want to do something, but don't want to be inconvenienced. In that respect the cars are really a waste of money, when the electric component in them dies, then what? Oh they'll probably continue to gain market share if they can still function normally when the batteries die or if the batteries can be replaced cheaply.

Just look at the home recycling mania that took off 40 years ago, people still slavishly wash out their plastic bottles and fold their newspapers into the bin even though it's been proven it's a total waste of time and money with half or better ending up in the landfill. As long as there is no obvious downside to the consumer this sort of crap continues and the corporations can continue to sell everything in plastic packaging. How many people know that nearly all of the liquid components of frac gas goes into making plastics? It's not good for anything else and saves corporation a fortune over using traditional glass and waxed paper alternatives.

Although the connection between plastics and fracking may seem obscure, ethane, a gas liquid produced through natural gas fracking, is currently stimulating increases in world plastics production From cheap ethane to a plastic planet
Of course the government counts this as oil equivalents and adds it to the nations total production as though you can drive a tractor on it. Lies Lies and more Lies.

I don't like it but eventually technology will catch up and EV will be the mainstream mode of transportation....

In the meantime hybrid systems that give the capability to be self sufficient is a better idea in my opinion.....not better than ICE but better than full EV.

....not sure about how recycling is done in your country but here in Canada it is working and working well.........

I do agree that industrial packaging should be more regulated to reduce the amount of Styrofoam and plastics used.

 

[TallTom]

The hybrid is cute, but it's really just a Gas car with the complication of having an electric component. They are taking off mostly because of all the world ending hype, people want to do something, but don't want to be inconvenienced. In that respect the cars are really a waste of money, when the electric component in them dies, then what? Oh they'll probably continue to gain market share if they can still function normally when the batteries die or if the batteries can be replaced cheaply.

Just look at the home recycling mania that took off 40 years ago, people still slavishly wash out their plastic bottles and fold their newspapers into the bin even though it's been proven it's a total waste of time and money with half or better ending up in the landfill. As long as there is no obvious downside to the consumer this sort of crap continues and the corporations can continue to sell everything in plastic packaging. How many people know that nearly all of the liquid components of frac gas goes into making plastics? It's not good for anything else and saves corporation a fortune over using traditional glass and waxed paper alternatives.

Although the connection between plastics and fracking may seem obscure, ethane, a gas liquid produced through natural gas fracking, is currently stimulating increases in world plastics production From cheap ethane to a plastic planet
Of course the government counts this as oil equivalents and adds it to the nations total production as though you can drive a tractor on it. Lies Lies and more Lies.

Related in convos to this. And I don't know if they do it there, but in the U.S. the big green push, not one thing seems to be done to stop this insane amount of packaging that takes place.

Buy a 1" x 2" thumb drive, and you get a 12"x12" slab of heavy gauge armored plastic that encases it. For what we are told is to prevent theft. Razor blades, batteries, bottles of schmutz, same thing. We can fill a landfill with more plastic than makes up the volume of the item it came in.

Here's a thought. Sell them like cigarettes. You want to buy cigarettes, you ask a clerk and they take your payment before you ever get to touch it. You want buy highly stolen items, expect to buy them like cigarettes.

I had to practically blow torch out a battery I recently purchased.

 

[Kiwi Rider]

Here’s a good one about electric conversions. . .

• 

 

[Oz22]

Plastic is a major problem but so is glass. 40 years ago, before recycle bins, most glass sold was directly recycled, the soda and milk bottles washed, refilled, and reused. Then all that product went into plastic bottles. Today?

Glass meant to be recycled in 8 Montreal boroughs going to landfill
Nearly half of Montreal's 19 boroughs aren't recycling glass, despite telling residents on the city website they can put it in their blue bin or bag.

Recycling in eight boroughs is taken to the sorting centre in the city's Saint-Michel neighbourhood, which is managed by the company Ricova. The 11 other boroughs' recycling goes to a new $47-million facility in Lachine, operated by another company contracted by the city, Société VIA. Both sorting centres have had trouble separating glass from other recyclables, as well as cleaning it — but the Saint-Michel centre is the latest to have come under scrutiny for not even trying.

The 20,000 tonnes of glass Ricova collects in Montreal ends up in landfills or is ground into powder and used as landfill cover as a replacement for sand. Landfill cover is spread over garbage at the end of each day to minimize odours, flyaways and prevent animals from getting into it. "It's basically glorified landfill," said recycling advocate Karel Ménard of using glass powder as landfill cover.
Link

What is this? The same as the EV, a massive waste of resources to pretend a problem is being solved. There is a reason the manufacturers lose thousands on every EV they sell. They simply are not an economically viable replacement for what the driving public demands. But like the phoney recycling agenda, don't expect to be told what's going on behind the scenes.

 

[Claude J. Greengrass]

Plastic is a major problem but so is glass. 40 years ago, before recycle bins, most glass sold was directly recycled, the soda and milk bottles washed, refilled, and reused. Then all that product went into plastic bottles. Today?

Glass meant to be recycled in 8 Montreal boroughs going to landfill
Nearly half of Montreal's 19 boroughs aren't recycling glass, despite telling residents on the city website they can put it in their blue bin or bag.

Recycling in eight boroughs is taken to the sorting centre in the city's Saint-Michel neighbourhood, which is managed by the company Ricova. The 11 other boroughs' recycling goes to a new $47-million facility in Lachine, operated by another company contracted by the city, Société VIA. Both sorting centres have had trouble separating glass from other recyclables, as well as cleaning it — but the Saint-Michel centre is the latest to have come under scrutiny for not even trying.

The 20,000 tonnes of glass Ricova collects in Montreal ends up in landfills or is ground into powder and used as landfill cover as a replacement for sand. Landfill cover is spread over garbage at the end of each day to minimize odours, flyaways and prevent animals from getting into it. "It's basically glorified landfill," said recycling advocate Karel Ménard of using glass powder as landfill cover.
Link

What is this? The same as the EV, a massive waste of resources to pretend a problem is being solved. There is a reason the manufacturers lose thousands on every EV they sell. They simply are not an economically viable replacement for what the driving public demands. But like the phoney recycling agenda, don't expect to be told what's going on behind the scenes.

Old news...
People want to be lied to, manipulated, dominated, punished etc. as long as somebody else bears the responsibility, that is why politicians are inherently corrupt, this is how they obtain power through the 'democracy' system (dictatorship has not demonstrated better results for humanity). I read in the past the classic book of Gustave Le Bon, Psychologie des Foules (1895); ("The Crowd: A Study of the Popular Mind", 1986) Full text available; Audiobook available, very useful to understand society and politics.
I finally came to terms and I ceased to discuss, participate in blogs, chats, social media and so on.
There is nothing you can do about, that's the lesson I got.

 

[Red05]

People want to be lied to, manipulated, dominated, punished etc. as long as somebody else bears the responsibility,

I haven't found that to be true at all. A lot of people do, however, constantly look for the path with the least resistance, so they'll take an incident like the glass in Montreal and rebuff recycling as a whole, so they don't need to separate their glass, plastic and tin from the rest of the trash. One trip to a landfill was all it took for me to see what we are doing to earth, and inspired me to be a small part of the solution instead of the opposite. I'd love for everyone to do the same, but time on this forum has taught me that beating my head against a wall is not the best way to spend time.

 

[Bumblebee]

I haven't found that to be true at all. A lot of people do, however, constantly look for the path with the least resistance, so they'll take an incident like the glass in Montreal and rebuff recycling as a whole, so they don't need to separate their glass, plastic and tin from the rest of the trash. One trip to a landfill was all it took for me to see what we are doing to earth, and inspired me to be a small part of the solution instead of the opposite. I'd love for everyone to do the same, but time on this forum has taught me that beating my head against a wall is not the best way to spend time.

I go out to our landfill lots and we can get tours into the recycling plant...I took my grandkids in there one time to show them what is going on....

I was even offered a job as a sorter there by someone I know....but didn't take it obviously....

Our area has a pretty robust program.....we even have a food/yard waste program where it is recovered via a household green bin and then converted into soil where people can buy it for their gardens....a full circle deal.....

The footprint of our landfill has stopped expanding as much as a result of our recycling program...

A person can even take steel there free of charge and we have an e-waste and hazmat waste recovery center that is free for drop off as well.

 

[Oz22]

Yes there are lots of little programs happening that make people feel better about their consumption.

 

[Oz22]

I haven't found that to be true at all. A lot of people do, however, constantly look for the path with the least resistance, so they'll take an incident like the glass in Montreal and rebuff recycling as a whole, so they don't need to separate their glass, plastic and tin from the rest of the trash. One trip to a landfill was all it took for me to see what we are doing to earth, and inspired me to be a small part of the solution instead of the opposite.

Spending millions to build a facility that employs a dozen people standing by a conveyor belt to pick out the odd can or bottle from the constant stream of baby nappies and other refuse, then crushing all that and putting into huge trucks to drive across the city to be processed into a new product, because it can't be used for what it once was, is a ridiculous exercise in futility and a waste of resources. But it makes people feel better about themselves and that was the whole point of the exercise. You feel like a saint for washing bottles, good, just don't ever research the subject, continue in your ignorance.

I learnt the basics from a university professor when he came back from a research endeavor at a large recycle plant 20 years ago. He wrote a paper on the waste involved, it was published but no one reads that stuff and the mass media certainly doesn't comment on it. Add up the value of all the recycled household products and then subtract the cost of the extra bins and extra trucks and diesel fuel and electricity and wages and infrastructure and you get a figure somewhat below Zero.

You want to help the planet? Stop buying so much poop from online stores, supermarkets, from liquor barns etc. Recycling is nothing more than a placebo.

 

[Claude J. Greengrass]

I haven't found that to be true at all. A lot of people do, however, constantly look for the path with the least resistance, so they'll take an incident like the glass in Montreal and rebuff recycling as a whole, so they don't need to separate their glass, plastic and tin from the rest of the trash. One trip to a landfill was all it took for me to see what we are doing to earth, and inspired me to be a small part of the solution instead of the opposite. I'd love for everyone to do the same, but time on this forum has taught me that beating my head against a wall is not the best way to spend time.

But I was referring to the masses, not the individuals, in the same way we examine a forest and not individual trees and species. .

 

[RacingJake]

You want to help the planet? Stop buying so much poop from online stores, supermarkets, from liquor barns etc. Recycling is nothing more than a placebo.

Not the Liquor Barn, I love a ice cold beer when the World going to hell lol.

 

[Bumblebee]

Spending millions to build a facility that employs a dozen people standing by a conveyor belt to pick out the odd can or bottle from the constant stream of baby nappies and other refuse, then crushing all that and putting into huge trucks to drive across the city to be processed into a new product, because it can't be used for what it once was, is a ridiculous exercise in futility and a waste of resources. But it makes people feel better about themselves and that was the whole point of the exercise. You feel like a saint for washing bottles, good, just don't ever research the subject, continue in your ignorance.

I learnt the basics from a university professor when he came back from a research endeavor at a large recycle plant 20 years ago. He wrote a paper on the waste involved, it was published but no one reads that stuff and the mass media certainly doesn't comment on it. Add up the value of all the recycled household products and then subtract the cost of the extra bins and extra trucks and diesel fuel and electricity and wages and infrastructure and you get a figure somewhat below Zero.

You want to help the planet? Stop buying so much poop from online stores, supermarkets, from liquor barns etc. Recycling is nothing more than a placebo.

You quoted @Red05 but this could have easily been directed at myself as I concur with his thoughts on the subject...

Ever been to a country with zero recycling or any sort of waste management?

 

[Red05]

just don't ever research the subject,

I've toured a plastic processing plant in St Louis, watched the process. It's true that 20% or so of material is unusable and ends up in the landfill, but 80% doesn't.

continue in your ignorance...

You do the same

 

[Kiwi Rider]

Old news...
People want to be lied to, manipulated, dominated, punished etc. as long as somebody else bears the responsibility, that is why politicians are inherently corrupt, this is how they obtain power through the 'democracy' system (dictatorship has not demonstrated better results for humanity). I read in the past the classic book of Gustave Le Bon, Psychologie des Foules (1895); ("The Crowd: A Study of the Popular Mind", 1986) Full text available; Audiobook available, very useful to understand society and politics.
I finally came to terms and I ceased to discuss, participate in blogs, chats, social media and so on.
There is nothing you can do about, that's the lesson I got.

The lesson I got was the two wings (the left and the right) are controlled by the same head in the center.
We swing from left to right constantly and (so called) democracy is an illusion put before us and very few can see through the lies and hypocrisy.
Corruption is rife and inherent in humans, and the ones that seek power are the most corrupt.
There is an answer to this problem but the vast majority do not want this solution, they just want to carry on down the highway to destruction.
But there will dawn a new day!

 

[Claude J. Greengrass]

The lesson I got was the two wings (the left and the right) are controlled by the same head in the center.
We swing from left to right constantly and (so called) democracy is an illusion put before us and very few can see through the lies and hypocrisy.
Corruption is rife and inherent in humans, and the ones that seek power are the most corrupt.
There is an answer to this problem but the vast majority do not want this solution, they just want to carry on down the highway to destruction.
But there will dawn a new day!

My idea is that when it comes to society (politics) matters, there is not much one can do, like trying to resist against the stream of a river. There is instead a lot of progress and satisfaction when dealing with SELF (family included), hobbies, intellectual skills, physical fitness and health, and so on.
But you need a bit of autism to discover all these.

 

[Claude J. Greengrass]

“If you don’t read the newspapers, you’re uninformed. If you do read them, you’re misinformed”.

I think government and its news outlets (also WEF government etc) is the worst enemy of humans:
Read what will happen in Germany to reduce CO2, a vital component of life:

German minister threatens ‘indefinite driving bans’ on weekends

The ruling coalition has been fighting over legislation that sets out binding climate targets.

www.politico.eu

 

[Bumblebee]

I watched a TV program last evening on BBC Earth and scientists were discussing the evolution of earth and the heat and cooling cycles it has gone through over the past tens of millions of years....where once there was a 90% life extinction event and the earth eventually cooled enough for life to begin again....

How one volcanic event can put more CO2 into the atmosphere than all of mankind has ever done.

They were also saying volcanic activity compounded with human activity further exacerbates the issue and humans have to learn to curb their use of fossil fuels or in the future, another extinction event could occur wiping us from existence.....

They did touch on EV and how the constant search for minerals and materials to both build the platform and batteries was also draining on the earth's resources.

It was a pretty interesting program.