Finished 1441 build, need a little help
- Thread starter KvHotDog4
- Start date
Iceman and the Hotdog...you guys should go into business together...buy alot of Busa parts that way.
Spend the 25 bucks Hotdog.
RSD.
Spend the 25 bucks Hotdog.
RSD.
KvHotDog4
Registered
Damb...I actually had that on my list for today.
Got anyway to measure the oils temperature? Sounds kind of extreme and stoopid....
But I gotta go with my strengths.
Rubb.
KvHotDog4
Registered
I'll be pulling the engine out and taking the casings apart this weekend. I drove about 1 mile last night and the cover was already so hot I couldn't touch it. My thought is a bearing is getting splashed with oil but not actually getting oiled. The only thing that cools the tranny is oil and the only thing that causes heat is friction, something is not getting enough oil in the transmission. In my opinion it won't last long getting this hot. Hopefully I can crack them open without moving the timing chain, because thanks to the morons at APE the adjustable timing gears are not marked and I had to pay someone to degree them in and I really don't want to pay another $200 to have the done.
Even though the instructions on the APE website says put them in and line up marks, they are not marked and when you call and talk to Pat he says, "any good builder knows its not plug and play, and its implied that you will have to degree them in and maybe I should just find someone else to build my engine." ------as you can guess the rest of the conversation didn't go to well. These are the instructions the packaging tells you to follow APE - CSAKS1300 Instructions however the gears have no marks what-so-ever on them. However, if this is the worse thing I run into I'll probably be doing good. It just sucks knowing I gave nearly $4,000 to the company, really wish I was closer to California but its probably a great thing I am not
Even though the instructions on the APE website says put them in and line up marks, they are not marked and when you call and talk to Pat he says, "any good builder knows its not plug and play, and its implied that you will have to degree them in and maybe I should just find someone else to build my engine." ------as you can guess the rest of the conversation didn't go to well. These are the instructions the packaging tells you to follow APE - CSAKS1300 Instructions however the gears have no marks what-so-ever on them. However, if this is the worse thing I run into I'll probably be doing good. It just sucks knowing I gave nearly $4,000 to the company, really wish I was closer to California but its probably a great thing I am not
LOL, the instructions tell you exactly what to do with the cams. ALL engines I have ever done, are done same way, BUT YOU MUST DEGREE THE CAMS. Otherwise your guessing, everything should be measured twice, checked off and written down. Motor build guessing and tuning guesses are what has caused some of the worst failures right here on this site and others I visit. Do a search, how much is truly saved when you skip the most important part of building anything? KNOWLEDGE IS POWER..
Engine builders know this is required, no matter the markings..Don't dog ape cause your builder lacks knowledge of proper engine assembly. Dog yourself for not finding a proper engine builder. It's so easy to lay blame when guys build their so called packages, when it's just a bunch of parts thrown together from what they heard works. That's a package of parts, not a motor package, you get that from a real builder. APE isn't perfect and their work isn't always spot on, but they do the best they can. Builders and parts buyers have to do the rest. Please quit blaming everyone else for your bike issues, blame the one person in control of them, YOU.
Engine builders know this is required, no matter the markings..Don't dog ape cause your builder lacks knowledge of proper engine assembly. Dog yourself for not finding a proper engine builder. It's so easy to lay blame when guys build their so called packages, when it's just a bunch of parts thrown together from what they heard works. That's a package of parts, not a motor package, you get that from a real builder. APE isn't perfect and their work isn't always spot on, but they do the best they can. Builders and parts buyers have to do the rest. Please quit blaming everyone else for your bike issues, blame the one person in control of them, YOU.
I'll be pulling the engine out and taking the casings apart this weekend. I drove about 1 mile last night and the cover was already so hot I couldn't touch it. My thought is a bearing is getting splashed with oil but not actually getting oiled. The only thing that cools the tranny is oil and the only thing that causes heat is friction, something is not getting enough oil in the transmission. In my opinion it won't last long getting this hot. Hopefully I can crack them open without moving the timing chain, because thanks to the morons at APE the adjustable timing gears are not marked and I had to pay someone to degree them in and I really don't want to pay another $200 to have the done.
Even though the instructions on the APE website says put them in and line up marks, they are not marked and when you call and talk to Pat he says, "any good builder knows its not plug and play, and its implied that you will have to degree them in and maybe I should just find someone else to build my engine." ------as you can guess the rest of the conversation didn't go to well. These are the instructions the packaging tells you to follow APE - CSAKS1300 Instructions however the gears have no marks what-so-ever on them. However, if this is the worse thing I run into I'll probably be doing good. It just sucks knowing I gave nearly $4,000 to the company, really wish I was closer to California but its probably a great thing I am not
If I ever need some advice Daniel I would have no problem paying you a little extra...
I'd prefere the "sugar-coated" version thou.
RSD.
KvHotDog4
Registered
HAHA if you read again, I didn't blame any problems on APE I am the builder and it is all my responsibility. I am just saying the instructions on how to install the parts are misleading. You buy their parts follow their instructions and the product will not work because also if you read the instructions again it says, "Install the sprocket so that the single sprocket dot is in line with the two adaptor lines. Install the sprocket so that the single sprocket dot is 180 degrees from the two lines on the adaptor."
I am no professional however I am sure you didn't start out knowing everything their is to know about building engines. I understand any and every problem is my fault but when instructions are misleading from the get go its kinda irritating, because yes I did all research and asked all questions BEFORE I took on this project. When I read those instructions and was told follow those instructions I didn't feel the need to research further. I guess I should have gotten more info from people who build these engines instead of the guys who just sell parts. Same deal with the silicone I used to put the cases together, I used the Ultra copper as recommended by APE. When I got to M/T Performance he said that is the worst thing you can put in it because it can break off and clog oil pathways. Still not blaming APE for the problems just for bad information.
Lycan6
Registered
I'm running a Shorai and a small 4 lb battery that I got from Pep boys. It's all you need for the 24v. I've never notices any extreme heat coming from my clutch cover either and it been stuck in myrtle beach bike week traffic. The engine does get hot and it does sometimes get above the half way line but the fan kicks on and cools it down or I just turn it off knowing I will have no problems cranking it with the 24v system.
Maybe you just solved yer own problem Hotdog.
I used the Ultra copper as recommended by APE. When I got to M/T Performance he said that is the worst thing you can put in it because it can break off and clog oil pathways.
RSD.
I used the Ultra copper as recommended by APE. When I got to M/T Performance he said that is the worst thing you can put in it because it can break off and clog oil pathways.
RSD.
+1 on that, You should have used suzuki bond, honda bond, or gasket sinch, for the cases, silicone is not made for the high torque applications, and you may have leaks down the road for crankcase pressure.
KvHotDog4
Registered
Is this type of gasket maker usually stocked at cycle gear or bike dealers or is it usually an order item?
I also have it under the spacer that goes under the cylinders (as recommended by APE), to replace it there would be a complete tear down. It the cylinders / base gasket / 2mm spacer / ultra copper / top casing / ultra copper / bottom casing. The engine stays cool and shows no leaks.......would you recommend tearing it back down to replace this?
It should be on the shelf at any GOOD bike shop. Decent shops would have to stock it for their own mechanics.
Second question: It could cause leaks down the road,it could be good forever.
For myself,and how a n a l I am,I would have it already torn down. I would want to know that I got anything floating around,out of there.This overheating issue still isn't solved and most likely isnt going to go away by itself.
But wait for the builders advice on that one.(guys who have done more motors than I have)
Free bump to the top.
RSD.
KvHotDog4
Registered
It should be on the shelf at any GOOD bike shop. Decent shops would have to stock it for their own mechanics.
Second question: It could cause leaks down the road,it could be good forever.
For myself,and how a n a l I am,I would have it already torn down. I would want to know that I got anything floating around,out of there.This overheating issue still isn't solved and most likely isnt going to go away by itself.
But wait for the builders advice on that one.(guys who have done more motors than I have)
Free bump to the top.
RSD.
Thanks for the bump. The engine is ready to come out now and I will be splitting the cases tonight, I was wondering if I should completely tear down the engine and remove the silicone from under the cylinders or will it be ok there? With the bottom case off and engine upside down if there is any silicone bubbled out I would be able to get a razor blade and cut it off. How much pressure is at that point of the engine? I did change to the APE studs and nuts, so according to them it should hold better.
Honda Bond for me. has done me well through a few re-builds...
i would make sure there isnt any extra sticking out under the block... i cant remember if i even used gasket material there... would have to go back and check the book to see if it even calls for it.
i would make sure there isnt any extra sticking out under the block... i cant remember if i even used gasket material there... would have to go back and check the book to see if it even calls for it.
KvHotDog4
Registered
It has a base gasket, I called to see if I needed another base gasket to put under the spacer and APE told me to just use the ultra copper
I hope you get it worked out. Must be frustrating.
SLEEPERBUSA
Registered
I don't know your heating issue, but a 24v start system will work wonders.
You can turn your battery sideways in the stock location and fit another, smaller one in there with it.
I may be wrong. I know you can fit 2 batteries sideways if you use a Tiger tail, so check that.
The first battery will still charge. I always buy a battery tender and install the pigtail on the second battery. After ever few rides, I pop the seat off and plug it in. It'll last longer than you think. I wouldn't own a big bore bike with out 24v.
You can turn your battery sideways in the stock location and fit another, smaller one in there with it.
I may be wrong. I know you can fit 2 batteries sideways if you use a Tiger tail, so check that.
The first battery will still charge. I always buy a battery tender and install the pigtail on the second battery. After ever few rides, I pop the seat off and plug it in. It'll last longer than you think. I wouldn't own a big bore bike with out 24v.
KvHotDog4
Registered
So after tearing it down and putting it back in I found the oil passage to the tranny was partially blocked, luckily the bearings were still getting enough oil to not seize up because they looked, felt and sounded good. After a few rides this weekend and riding it in to work today, it still gets warm but its no hotter than the rest of the engine and I don't feel the heat through my shoe and pants. I felt on a few of my buddies bikes and all seems to be normal, however the lesser heat did not fix the starting issue. I'll be getting the 24v start from icemansid as soon as he finishes building it.
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