gen 3 motor failure

I had to turn off the second video, he's carrying on and on and on. I wouldn't of said anything to anybody if I'd seen a keeper on its side like that.

Pull the head, drop the valve, check it, get a new set of keepers and set it up. It was next to no damage on the piston. I'd slap the head on the bench, I'd double check all the shims, and all the keepers and put it back together and run it.

With a new head gasket of course.
 
I had to turn off the second video, he's carrying on and on and on. I wouldn't of said anything to anybody if I'd seen a keeper on its side like that.

Pull the head, drop the valve, check it, get a new set of keepers and set it up. It was next to no damage on the piston. I'd slap the head on the bench, I'd double check all the shims, and all the keepers and put it back together and run it.

With a new head gasket of course.
Let’s face it, not everyone is natural in front of the camera like our very own @c10. I would probably be just like the guy on these video, but less knowledgeable about busa engine tear downs.
 
The only optimistic thing that came from this is he will come out on top when he's finished. The bike will be faster than it's old form. The intake and cams are definitely tuned for low to mid as suzuki stated publicly. At the same time Suzuki didn't change the engine to much so the racers can swap, change and modify the engine to fit their desired needs with pre-existing parts that have been on the market for years. Figure 99%+ are street bikes so that was a good decision for Suzuki.
 
What I still can't wrap my head around is him mentioning hitting the rev limiter. Did this "improper" shim cause the issue or did the rider make a mistake and over revved the engine and this is the end result? Or was it a combination of the 2? Granted 1 shim being quite different than the others is suspect but I don't know the manufacturing tolerances enough to judge either way. Something I wonder about is the quick shifter. Is the computer smart enough to know when not to quick down shift? And I think he mentioned they put and air shifter on it. How does that work and why change from factory quick shift to an air shifter?
 
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For you engine builders and spurts, why did the factory put different size shims on that engine? Were there some 1/1000ths out of spec in some places? Could the factory even measure such a small amount trying to decide this size shim and that size? I thought I heard him say the shims on one side were one size and on the other side another size.
 
I didn't want to troll him on YouTube nor mean any hard feelings with his failure but the bike isn't tuned and I know the AFR is all out of whack all the way to 18:1 at times. A good misfire would cause the valve to slap shut and a whole bunch of wrong can happen. Seen it for years in the Subi clubs with people running factory tunes or OTS with mods, the bike is no different. Again regardless, you learn, move forward and make things better as a bike/car project. Also noted our bikes don't have knock sensors so the ecu has no idea with cylinder roughness.

Mods, tune tune tune...
 
For you engine builders and spurts, why did the factory put different size shims on that engine? Were there some 1/1000ths out of spec in some places? Could the factory even measure such a small amount trying to decide this size shim and that size? I thought I heard him say the shims on one side were one size and on the other side another size.

Shims are for fine tuning valve stem/bucket style cover, to cam lobe clearance.
They usually all vary a few thousandths from new. As you Cannot machine perfect tolerances into multiple parts, especially all requiring such small clearances.
If the shim size was too small(loose) from the factory...the engine would have ticked/rattled noticeably from it's first start, and continuously from there on until the shim was replaced with the correct size.
No way it left the factory, and the dealer that way, and the customer not hear it either.
Not the problem.

As for hitting the rev limiter;
In gear, with the engine loaded, there should be no issues, as the rev limiter is pretty conservative...and it's there to Prevent over rev damage.
Correct me if I am wrong, but you cannot redline the gen3 in neutral(ecu safety), but you can pull the clutch and redline it in gear, as if the engine were in neutral.
If you do that, and bounce off the rev limiter, that puts alot more stress on the engine, as there's no load on the engine.
It's like missing with a punch.

As for the air/fuel being too lean? No.
Lean? Yes
Dangerous? No
Performing well? No
Plenty of full exhaust untuned engines still running fine.
The Proof? Look at the engine internals.
Nothing is visibly damaged from a lean condition.
Only one cylinder had a problem.
The keepers on #1 cylinder, and/or the valve stem where they fit, failed.
One of those parts(possibly even the guide) was either an out of spec part, had a stress fracture, or some sort of defect in the manufacturing process.
That part(s) failed under circumstances it should have been able to withstand for 100k+ miles(with valves adjusted when needed).

The Dealer doesn't like that guy for whatever reason, otherwise they would've warrantied it for him.
Fortunately, the guy knows how to fix it(doesn't have to be concerned if someone fixed it correctly or not).
He can afford to(which is great, but aside from the point).
And, he's back up and running already(his bike would probably be at the dealer a long time).
 
Shims are for fine tuning valve stem/bucket style cover, to cam lobe clearance.
They usually all vary a few thousandths from new. As you Cannot machine perfect tolerances into multiple parts, especially all requiring such small clearances.
If the shim size was too small(loose) from the factory...the engine would have ticked/rattled noticeably from it's first start, and continuously from there on until the shim was replaced with the correct size.
No way it left the factory, and the dealer that way, and the customer not hear it either.
Not the problem.

As for hitting the rev limiter;
In gear, with the engine loaded, there should be no issues, as the rev limiter is pretty conservative...and it's there to Prevent over rev damage.
Correct me if I am wrong, but you cannot redline the gen3 in neutral(ecu safety), but you can pull the clutch and redline it in gear, as if the engine were in neutral.
If you do that, and bounce off the rev limiter, that puts alot more stress on the engine, as there's no load on the engine.
It's like missing with a punch.

As for the air/fuel being too lean? No.
Lean? Yes
Dangerous? No
Performing well? No
Plenty of full exhaust untuned engines still running fine.
The Proof? Look at the engine internals.
Nothing is visibly damaged from a lean condition.
Only one cylinder had a problem.
The keepers on #1 cylinder, and/or the valve stem where they fit, failed.
One of those parts(possibly even the guide) was either an out of spec part, had a stress fracture, or some sort of defect in the manufacturing process.
That part(s) failed under circumstances it should have been able to withstand for 100k+ miles(with valves adjusted when needed).

The Dealer doesn't like that guy for whatever reason, otherwise they would've warrantied it for him.
Fortunately, the guy knows how to fix it(doesn't have to be concerned if someone fixed it correctly or not).
He can afford to(which is great, but aside from the point).
And, he's back up and running already(his bike would probably be at the dealer a long time).
you can redline the poop out of it as long as you are stopped. If you are rolling it has like a 4k rev limiter.
 
Ride em like you stole em ...
Just for the record, when they steal bikes now they don't ride them away, they stick them in the back of a truck and cart them away :D

As for the failure, well I could imagine a newly trained assembler screwing up and putting a wrong shim in, too much slack allowing a collett to pop over. It's one of the good things about buying second hand, all the running in has been done and any major issues dealt with.
 
Hard break-ins have been proven safe and effective many times.
That failure had to be an out of spec and/or broken keeper, valve stem(keeper grooves), or mechanical part that could not do what it was supposed to.
That's not from doing anything wrong.
It's sad that's not under warranty.
Suzuki pays the Dealer for warranty repairs anyway.
There's a big difference between a hard break in and drag racing the piss out of the bike with almost no miles on it.
 
There's a big difference between a hard break in and drag racing the piss out of the bike with almost no miles on it.

Definitely. One thing strikes me though, when a tappet is out of adjustment you can tell just by the sound. Even a little bit out and it makes that tappety tap sound. If that EX valve was so loose why didn't the 'expert' in the vid pick up on it and check the shims? He obviously wasn't shy to get the tools out.

I remember a guy on youtube that liked to race up canyons at 200km/h doing all sorts of stupid stuff to attract views to his channel. Once I saw him drop a brand new bike, supposedly after hitting a rock in a corner, and it went down and then caught fire. It was so obviously staged I couldn't believe it. Half of what's on the tube is just total BS.
 
See here's my take. A lot of these "experts" are just lucky. In the Hayabusa world the engine has always been over engineered and very strong. Just because you can remove a head or install cams that doesn't make you a guru. The people that tune engines over and over reliably those guys know something special. The ones that do actual machining that's a skill. I tried watching this guys videos and I just couldn't get through any of them. I just skipped the pertinent information.
 
Definitely. One thing strikes me though, when a tappet is out of adjustment you can tell just by the sound. Even a little bit out and it makes that tappety tap sound. If that EX valve was so loose why didn't the 'expert' in the vid pick up on it and check the shims? He obviously wasn't shy to get the tools out.

I remember a guy on youtube that liked to race up canyons at 200km/h doing all sorts of stupid stuff to attract views to his channel. Once I saw him drop a brand new bike, supposedly after hitting a rock in a corner, and it went down and then caught fire. It was so obviously staged I couldn't believe it. Half of what's on the tube is just total BS.

Surely you aren't speaking ill of the great Max Wrist?!
lmao
 
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