Good luck Lt.

skydivr said:
There's ZERO in the records released that indicates anything about him being a SEAL. Jeez, from the service record released above, in fact it looks to me like he didn't do very much at all - all his awards were training and 'i was there' ribbons, not ONE for merit - and he should have had a least ONE. I've in fact got the impression he may have been an underachiever or even a troublemaker given the multiple, short duration reassignments (This is totally IMHO).
Click to expand...

I beg to differ.. There is a very specific period that has the assignment specifics withheld and happens to occur very much near to the undersea warfare time period.
 
semi said:
i'm assuming you are responding to the Declaration of Independence list...of course we didn't kill lots of their children, they were in England...let's take WWII since it is pretty recent, we fought on their territory, and there are still participants around...we killed their children by the millions and i hope would do it again if needed!! if the Revolutionary War had taken place in England, plenty of their children would have died with their blood on future Americans musketballs, knives, swords, or whatever they could obtain...that is what happens when men hate one another and violence begins, the innocent get slaughtered too
Click to expand...

I'd differentiate between 'targets' and 'collateral damage'....
 
Projekt said:
The recent comments have opened argument for one more angle to be looked at. What about all of the innocent people that have died at the hands of our Soldiers oversees. This is a very well documented truth and is in no way meant to bring discredit to those who served honorably. How is it that we turn a blind eye to the actions of the demented few in Uniform? Whether they were brainwashed and subject to a rogue leader that ordered them or if they took it upon themselves to blast the innocents just to clear intersections as occurred in Baghdad, or the countless collateral deaths that have happened in Afghanistan. Shoot, they are still talking about Iran and trying to find a way to invade them. Regardless of what our current administration has shown to reinforce the Iran "liberation" (to American/British petroleum contracts) agenda, you better believe that when the next GOP president gets elected, that will be a hot topic. What about all the death there? What about all the young men and women sent to there deaths or to be maimed in wars that do not occur within our borders or even threaten our safety?
Click to expand...

I actually had this very subject on my mind earlier as I replied to Lurch (I think; you all look alike anymore in this thread) :laugh: It is a very good and valid point, and the question it raises is simple - what's considered acceptable/collateral damage and who determines that line? I'd love to think the answer is "well, the civilized people determine it", but don't we all think we're civilized? Am I OK with children being killed when we bomb a country? How is it that we are the civilized ones, passing judgment on someone like this guy from the LAPD when "we" as a whole find it OK to turn a country to glass??

Big can of worms that no one can truly address with a clear line...well, not in IMHO...

Dark side - we all want to think we know better, whether that's one person or a country...
 
Projekt said:
I beg to differ.. There is a very specific period that has the assignment specifics withheld and happens to occur very much near to the undersea warfare time period.
Click to expand...

Until you can prove it (or the Navy does), all you are doing is injecting pure speculation into the topic in order to elicit some kind of sympathy for this man - still doesn't work. He still holds my contempt.
 
semi said:
it has only been in very recent times that mankind has taken the idea that killing someone outside of your own group, clan, family, etc. is a bad thing...sure, many look down on murder but we're not talking about that...this is a case where a man felt that a specific group of people caused him grevious harm and went to exact his pound of flesh plus interest...if this had happened 150 years ago, there would be books and ballads written about his derring-do in the face of insurmountable odds...what are the stories of David, Samson, Cronus, Diomedes, George Washington, Billy the Kid, and so many more that we grew up with but the story of the victors by the victors about their taking or trying to take what they wanted by might of hand? our current problem is it is now staring us in the face that someone may take exception to our idea of "normal" and decide to do things the old way...that just might make a few "civilized" people very anxious!!!
Click to expand...

Projekt said:
This is another tangent I planned to argue at a later point along this thread. Thanks for bringing it to the table.
Click to expand...

I was kinda starting to think that you had jacked semi's account :laugh:
 
skydivr said:
Until you can prove it (or the Navy does), all you are doing is injecting pure speculation into the topic in order to elicit some kind of sympathy for this man - still doesn't work. He still holds my contempt.
Click to expand...

Well you know what "they" say about opinions.... :whistle:
 
VaBusa said:
I actually had this very subject on my mind earlier as I replied to Lurch (I think; you all look alike anymore in this thread) :laugh: It is a very good and valid point, and the question it raises is simple - what's considered acceptable/collateral damage and who determines that line? I'd love to think the answer is "well, the civilized people determine it", but don't we all think we're civilized? Am I OK with children being killed when we bomb a country? How is it that we are the civilized ones, passing judgment on someone like this guy from the LAPD when "we" as a whole find it OK to turn a country to glass??

Big can of worms that no one can truly address with a clear line...well, not in IMHO...

Dark side - we all want to think we know better, whether that's one person or a country...
Click to expand...

Exactly! And you cover the items I left out.... :cheerleader:
 
Projekt said:
His statements were corroborated by witnesses. However, the statements were then discounted by the accused cops. You want to call it made up and sociopathic, go ahead. I however stick to my argument that this man felt it necessary to carry out the agenda he did because he knew that to get results after giving the "Legal" system a shot requires that you set off bombs or ventilate skulls these days. It is an unfortunate truth in today's age but with the so called free (censored) press only reporting the items that it is instructed to rather than actual issues of social importance, it just is what it is. Maybe, Lt Dorner could have gone another route but it is doubtful that he would have gone far in LA since that city is, well, under the thumb of force. He decided to do what he did to provide a service to the citizens there, to serve and protect them in other words from the oppressive practices of the few corrupt that continue to tarnish the image of the force with impunity.
Click to expand...
I cant remember the last time I read a bigger pile chit then what you just wrote....:whistle:

"He decided to do what he did to provide a service to the citizens there, to serve and protect them in other words from the oppressive practices of the few corrupt that continue to tarnish the image of the force with impunity"....... you really need to get ur head examined! he provided a service to the citizens there? if u say so.....:whistle:
 
I'm reading this and I can't believe we are still talking about it! :whistle:

Dorner was not completely rational. He had issues but his responses were disproportionate to the circumstances. He is not a good start for any movement because of how he did what he did. If he had hid in the woods and picked off LAPD, you could at least see the direct link between his issues and his action. Killing the family was crazy, hard to read it any other way. He also didn't seem to have a very good plan to get any distance between him and the LAPD, which is essential as one cannot be a robbin hood if you have the police one step behind you. So he wasn't all that smart, which is a necessary part of the story to make it a legend.

How many accidental fires have the police started with tear gas now?:laugh:
 
1st let me make it very clear, I DO NOT CONDONE the actions taken by Lt. Dorner.

Now what is the best way to make a human suffer after you feel they made you suffer??
Take out their kids. A parent should never have to bury a child and to do so creates great pain and suffering.

Again I DO NOT repeat I DO NOT condone what he did. I am looking at it from another view using current societal (is that a word?) thought.
 
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